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Thread: Frames in "Elfyn"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
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    208

    Default Frames in "Elfyn"

    I have another thread on my build of Elfyn, but quick question on installing permanent laminated frames. Glued in with epoxy to wherever they land on planking?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Rushworth, Australia
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: Frames in "Elfyn"

    Yes if itís glued lapstrake.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dorset, UK
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    1,905

    Default Re: Frames in "Elfyn"

    Well Iain is usually right...

    After asking Iain for forgiveness, personally, I'd give thought to putting extra lams on the frames when glued up then cut out the frame, so that the 'gaps' are filled in and there is full contact to the planks. Bevel and joggle as needed it'll be a bit more work, but you'll have much more glue contact and less chance of the frame detaching from the plank. Even then, might need a fillet either side or through fastenings. Elf/ Elfyn are especially beautiful boats and it might be best to stick to the plan, even if its just for aesthetics.

    The way the frames are shown curved to the inside of planking, is attractive and has Scandi origin,but only gives contact support to a proportion of the plank. Might be fine, but in the long term, remember that the frame is only glued to the top 1mm lam of your plywood plank with glued lap and it will probably let go after a number of years with only 50% contact to the frames. Seen a few boats (not Elfyn's) with detached frames on here needing a repair. If you did do it as shown, a supportive and attractive rivet through the contact point might be a good investment to support the glue 'joint'.

    Next to the keelson, the hole sized to your first finger pinkie. I'd also be wary of pulling the boat in to fit the frames. Another reason why it might let go. I'd look for fair plank lines and maybe install it 'as it sits' so the glue line isn't under any more stress than it needs to be. There was a CLC boat on here that had a detached frame due to that I think (it let go and pranged out), I guess that might happen when fitting a kit of parts.

    If you lam the frames you'll have some spring back to figure in as well. All in all, maybe overlam and cut the frame out after fudging with a pattern to fit. The spring in your planks, gravity, build jig accuracy, molds out when turned over, your Elfyn won't be the exact shape on the lines now, and it'll need 'fitting' to what you got. Hence pattern first.

    May 'The Force be with you' cutting and bevelling those lovely oblique Rangs...
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 06-15-2022 at 01:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    22,234

    Default Re: Frames in "Elfyn"

    springback...this is not a thing for frames lammed in place .( or throwing half the frame away beveling it)
    can they be lammed in place?(i dunno the bote)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    208

    Default Re: Frames in "Elfyn"

    Thanks. Yes Glue/Ply. Frames were laminated on forms prior to build and set aside. They fit in the planked hull pretty good without hardly any need to pull in planking. And yes frames do not touch all planking, so will glue in place and add fillets where I can. I have built lots of boats, but this is first full glue/ply as was never really much interested in the method. Until of course a person was willing to pay. Ian's plans are very detailed, but as noted in other posts, his building instructions are pretty rudimentary and cover many of his designs, as I now have at least 4 copies of the same manual. In hindsight, I suppose one could have set the finished frames into the build molds where they are destined to go and glued the planking right to them as planking went on. Anyone tried that?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Rushworth, Australia
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: Frames in "Elfyn"

    05424C80-0612-4F5E-B862-829445E8FA86.jpg
    Moulds with frames mounted on blocks.
    mould is on wide side of station and frame on narrow side so that way mould doesn’t need fairing but obviously frame will be bought down to fair. Iain’s Grey seal but you get the idea.
    Last edited by Andrew Donald; 06-16-2022 at 06:50 AM.

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