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Thread: 2nd J6 hearing

  1. #1
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    Default 2nd J6 hearing

    Occurring now. I was expecting it tonight in prime time again.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    It *should* be in prime time. The testimony is devastating. Everyone around Trump knew that his election fraud accusations were false. There is no reasonable way that Trump could not have known that too.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Thursday night was compelling and far more disciplined than any I have seen before.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06...hearings-trump


    • Jan. 6 Hearing Live Updates: Barr Says Trump Was ‘Detached From Reality’

      William P. Barr, the former attorney general, said in a recorded deposition that claims of widespread electoral fraud were nonsense. As the hearing closed, Rep. Zoe Lofgren said Mr. Trump used lies about fraud as a fund-raising tool.










    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06...hearings-trump


    • Jan. 6 Hearing Live Updates: Barr Says Trump Was ‘Detached From Reality’


      William P. Barr, the former attorney general, said in a recorded deposition that claims of widespread electoral fraud were nonsense. As the hearing closed, Rep. Zoe Lofgren said Mr. Trump used lies about fraud as a fund-raising tool.




    To me, all I can see is this was fraud, of various types - pure and simple.

    What is staggering to me is that his supporters were and continue to be willing "marks".
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    It *should* be in prime time. The testimony is devastating. Everyone around Trump knew that his election fraud accusations were false. There is no reasonable way that Trump could not have known that too.
    It isn't just that he knew, it was him who actually invented the lie. The very definition of fraud. Election fraud. A crime. The worst crime that an American president* could commit, short of starting a bogus war or allowing a viral pandemic to devastate the country, resulting in a million deaths in two years.

    I haven't heard or read anyone actually asserting it this way yet, but, even though lying as a private citizen or a political candidate is protected free-speech, lying as a function of holding elected office is not. The faux-president's assertions that the election was stolen and the concerted effort he and his appointed crew made to use that lie to change the outcome of the election, constitutes defrauding the US and is felonious, seditious, and is also treasonous as spelled out in the Constitution. Just by trying to pass off his lie, while demonstrably knowing it to be a fabrication and totally false, trmp is guilty of enough to have been impeached while he was still holding the office, and to be prosecuted now by the current DOJ and convicted by a jury. Aside from and not counting the fact that his effort to solicit his supporters to donate money to his ongoing efforts and that that ongoing effort was the proximate cause instigating the Jan sixth insurrection—in his name. He invented the lie, promoted the lie, paid others to promulgate the lie, and the lie led to the insurrection. All of that is evidence of treasonous election interference and election fraud, and specifically indicated as a reason to charge a sitting president* as a traitor, punishable by death. Surely it's enough to arrest and charge a former president.*

    Why is he still at large?

    He needs to be indicted by special grand jury, a pro forma affair, apprehended and held for trial. Then he needs to be tried and convicted and incarcerated for the rest of his natural life, or be executed, as, per the Constitution, treason, for a president, is a capital offense.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    It isn't just that he knew, it was he that actually invented the lie. The very definition of fraud. Election fraud. A crime. The worst crime that an American president* could commit, short of starting a bogus war or allowing a viral pandemic to devastate the country, resulting in a million deaths in two years.

    I haven't heard or read anyone actually asserting it this way yet, but, even though lying as a private citizen or a political candidate is protected free-speech, lying as a function of holding elected office is not. The faux-president's assertions that the election was stolen and the concerted effort he and his appointed crew made to use that lie to change the outcome of the election, constitutes defrauding the US and is felonious, seditious, and is also treasonous as spelled out in the Constitution. Just by trying to pass off his lie, while demonstrably knowing it to be a fabrication and totally false, trmp is guilty of enough to have been impeached while he was still holding the office, and to be prosecuted now by the current DOJ and convicted by a jury. Aside from and not counting the fact that his effort to solicit his supporters to donate money to his ongoing efforts and that that ongoing effort was the proximate cause instigating the Jan sixth insurrection—in his name. He invented the lie, promoted the lie, paid others to promulgate the lie, and the lie led to the insurrection. All of that is evidence of treasonous election interference and election fraud, and specifically indicated as a reason to charge a sitting president* as a traitor, punishable by death. Surely it's enough to arrest and charge a former president.*

    Why is he still at large?

    He needs to be indicted by special grand jury, a pro forma affair, apprehended and held for trial. Then he needs to be tried and convicted and incarcerated for the rest of his natural life, or be executed, as, per the Constitution, treason, for a president, is a capital offense.
    I'd say it is time for him to be in custody - if he wasn't a flight risk before these hearings, he certainly must be now.
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    This hearing gives me hope for the country.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    I listened in. Damning. Every witness, and every video clip, was from someone on Team Trump. From Ivanka and Jared through Bill Barr, Stephen, Jason Miller, former Trump lawyers, former Trump appointees, etc etc. Allvof them, with the sole exception of an "inebriated Rudy Giuliani" (per 2 sources on video), told Trump multiple times that he lost. That all the theories the other direction were garbage or worse. And that Trump chose to keep telling the lies anyway. Knowing, from all quarters, that he was telling lies.

    This isn't partisan - there were no Democrat witnesses saying this in the hearing. They were all, to a person, Trump's own people. From the upper ranks.

    One more thing. The lead committee investigator described how they fundraised heavily off the stolen election claims. Up to 25 fundraising emails per day in December 2020, which brought in $100M in thecfirsr week alone after the election, from small dollar donations. A total in the range of $250M, sold to the donors as going to fund election defense. But in fact, going in part at least as donations to organizations connected to Trump loyalists, or Trump himself. For instance, $1m to Meadows' charitable foundation. Money to a Trump Hotels branded outfit. Etc etc. The lies were continuing to be told, in part, because deceiving the rubes literally paid off. And some of the rubes who were fleeced of their money were the same people who, according to their own statements made on camera at the Jan6 insurrection, showed up that day ready to do anything to further Trump's cause.

    Was compelling again, and damning.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    I’m actually starting to think Trump might go to jail, regardless of the extremely unusual precedent.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    I agree with all of the above, but I'm inclined to think his biggest legal problem may be fraudulent fundraising. Damning as all the claims of election fraud may be, the fundraising may piss off his supporters more. Also might be an easier case to prove.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    One more thing. The lead committee investigator described how they fundraised heavily off the stolen election claims. Up to 25 fundraising emails per day in December 2020, which brought in $100M in thecfirsr week alone after the election, from small dollar donations. A total in the range of $250M, sold to the donors as going to fund election defense. But in fact, going in part at least as donations to organizations connected to Trump loyalists, or Trump himself. For instance, $1m to Meadows' charitable foundation. Money to a Trump Hotels branded outfit. Etc etc. The lies were continuing to be told, in part, because deceiving the rubes literally paid off. And some of the rubes who were fleeced of their money were the same people who, according to their own statements made on camera at the Jan6 insurrection, showed up that day ready to do anything to further Trump's cause.

    Was compelling again, and damning.
    Grifters gotta grift - That was my take away.
    Disgusting
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    It *should* be in prime time. The testimony is devastating. Everyone around Trump knew that his election fraud accusations were false. There is no reasonable way that Trump could not have known that too.
    Comes up on my guide at 8 pm today or tomorrow.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Worth mentioning that the "We Build the Wall" scam for which Bannon was preemptively pardoned, and in which 2 of Bannon's associates pleaded guilty, was structured exactly like the post-election grift described at today's hearing.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Grifters gotta grift - That was my take away.
    Disgusting
    In a nutshell. Yep.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    The political impact, that his supporters will lose faith, stop believing the lie, and therefore stop being a force in primary politics, is a genuine benefit to society, but it pales beside the fact that the one president who actually was helped to fraudulently win a national election, and who was impeached twice while holding the office, personifies the Constitution's bulwark against the threat to it and the country by enemies both foreign and domestic. He's the person the Framers had in mind when they used that oft-quoted phrase. He's the domestic enemy. And in the Constitution the remedy for a president who aids or abets a foreign enemy, or defrauds the US by corrupting the electoral process IS that enemy and the penalty for that treason is death. And if we manage to witness Congress doing the right thing, and they are so far, and it eventually culminates in trmp's righteous conviction, the country and the 'grand experiment' in the peaceful transition of power in the USA will be upheld and we can again participate in the affairs of the world as a leader in Democracy and a continued bastion of freedom. The long nightmare of the orange embarrassment will finally be over and with a proper and final ending: no one, even light, can escape the gravity of a black hole and no one is above the law—not even the president. The gratuitous and ersatz precedent of not prosecuting a president is shown to not hold water. And if they haven't already, the Secret Service, along with the rest of the country, needs to be done all the way with the fake former president.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Also I don‘t give Barr a pass even though his testimony was epic today. I will never forget his tainting the Mueller Report and the fact that congress couldn’t impeach T*** so at the very least he could never run for any public office again. Why that didn’t happen give me pause for the continued existence of this experiment we call American Democracy.
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Barr? I don't give any of them a pass. The witnesses that were presented all *knew* this was going on. They should have been ringing alarm bells - clearly, and loudly. They didn't. While they may have given testimony, I think it should be considered at sentencing.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    I agree. WTF these people. Better that they tell the truth now, or part of it, than that they pull what Eastman and Giuliani etc. are trying to pull, but ... but now? When doing so, if anything, serves as a stop on a reputation rehab tour?

    These people saw the evil in real time, and however much they may have argued right then that the lies were lies, and that Trump should be doing something else ... their obligation was to fulfil their Oaths. To, in real time, go to the FBI, go to the media, go find a microphone and say this stuff right then.

    They may be somewhat repentant weasels, but they're weasels. And there's nothing to suggest that they'd do anything differently if they were put in the same situation again. They're testifying because they were caught with emails or texts or etc., and are cooperating in the hope of having a light ride if and when the DoJ actually ever does its job with people at their level.

    I'm glad that it's Republicans eating up the Republicans here, and that the Committee is essentially just curating the show. But if any of them were on fire, I wouldn't piss on them to put the fire out.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    All Federal employees swear the following oath:

    “I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

    Clearly, they didn't carry out their oath at that time.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    “Detached from reality” Karl Rove 2.0 We Make Our Reality! All that to stick it to the liberals, the gov’t, the Deep State, the pizza pedophile parlors and the Clintons, yeah the Clintons! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!

    And that my fella Muricans is just one part of how the empire falls. We have so much more to screw up.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    The question all need to ask is, "Why do so many American citizens believe the big lie?"

    Why do people have different sets of facts?

    Can't fix the country if we don't fix that.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    The question all need to ask is, "Why do so many American citizens believe the big lie?"

    Why do people have different sets of facts?

    Can't fix the country if we don't fix that.
    Because they were lied to and they don't have the critical thinking skills to separate the lies from the truth.

    If anyone ever tells you that education isn't important in teaching critical thinking skills...
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Take it a step further - they want to believe the lies. It supports their own prejudices.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post

    If anyone ever tells you that education isn't important in teaching critical thinking skills...
    just ask a kansas republican?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    I believe some places will air this tonight. Suspect if one looks for it one may find it.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    The question all need to ask is, "Why do so many American citizens believe the big lie?"

    Why do people have different sets of facts?

    Can't fix the country if we don't fix that.
    If you’re detached from reality you’ve got a lot more freedom to believe falsehoods. So the issue of falsehood vs accurate reporting kind of assumes everyone shares a common reality which of course they don’t. I’m trying to address your repetition about lies promulgated by liars.

    There are so many areas where one doesn’t have direct experience to know immediately one is listening to a flawed or false storyline. On top of that the progression of news to targeted infotainment further entrenches people into their prefered world.

    In 2015 I was listening to a syndicated Christian radio program that promoted Trump indirectly. One of the callers said “I don’t think he’s my kind of Christian but he’s sayin’ what people are thinkin’. “

    And what people are thinkin’ is what people are thinkin’. Which can be a lot like what ads the algorithm throws up on a webpage. It’s not always thinking.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post

    In 2015 I was listening to a syndicated Christian radio program that promoted Trump indirectly.
    oh dear lord lee
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    There are multiple places to watch it on YouTube. Here is the one from PBS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jblC2Ooog2U

    Of course, the ones like some here that want to believe the lie won't bother to watch it.


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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    oh dear lord lee
    Hey,I listen to the radio. I missed the smart phone podcast companion media device era. The local AM station has good 60’s -80’s rock and NPR doesn’t always come through on the drive to town so I got to know the local station and they subscribe to AFR on Sunday morns. Also there’s a buy/sell part. I gotta know where I live. And look what I disovered, “Trump is sayin’ what people are thinkin’”.
    TFG rambling nonsense full of bravado, bad guys and people to look down on is what people are thinkin’.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Now that they’re not in prime time, Fox News is carrying them. One small step for man(kind).

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Best quote of the day "Donald Trump is a cancer on this country"

    Charles M. Blow

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    If you’re detached from reality you’ve got a lot more freedom to believe falsehoods. So the issue of falsehood vs accurate reporting kind of assumes everyone shares a common reality which of course they don’t. I’m trying to address your repetition about lies promulgated by liars.

    There are so many areas where one doesn’t have direct experience to know immediately one is listening to a flawed or false storyline. On top of that the progression of news to targeted infotainment further entrenches people into their prefered world.

    In 2015 I was listening to a syndicated Christian radio program that promoted Trump indirectly. One of the callers said “I don’t think he’s my kind of Christian but he’s sayin’ what people are thinkin’. “

    And what people are thinkin’ is what people are thinkin’. Which can be a lot like what ads the algorithm throws up on a webpage. It’s not always thinking.
    As may be, a network operating under the heading of 'news' should have some requirement to get matters of fact correct. Politicians ought to be required to tell the truth. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

    Is a politician lying about his voting record, for example, any different than a car dealer turning back an odometer? How many people died because our president lied us into the Iraq war?

    Inciting violence is not free speech, but a candidate can tell his crowd, "Beat the hell out of him!" and it's okay?

    I am redundant. If that bothers you, I apologize. Of all the threats to our nation, the most dangerous one is internal. It is accepting false information as fact that will be our downfall.

    ALL that said, it's my belief the easiest thing to charge and convict Trump of is fraudulent fundraising. Even if the jury has some Trump supporters on it, I doubt they'll be happy to learn he lied and ripped them off.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2nd J6 hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Now that they’re not in prime time, Fox News is carrying them. One small step for man(kind).
    I believe you'll find rerun in prime time if you look
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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