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Thread: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

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    Default The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    I can see why the republicans get draw in light of a changing america. I believe it comes down to space. Space for home and family, space that keeps the familiar close rather than change. Wanting to keep the familiar space like it was. Voting for people who suggest they can keep what they have.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/22/both-republicans-and-democrats-prioritize-family-but-they-differ-over-other-sources-of-meaning-in-life/

    In February 2021, Pew Research Center asked 2,596 U.S. adults the following open-ended question: “What about your life do you currently find meaningful, fulfilling or satisfying? What keeps you going and why?” Researchers then evaluated the answers and grouped them into the most commonly mentioned categories.

    Both Republicans and Democrats are most likely to say they derive meaning from their families, and they also commonly mention their friends, careers and material well-being. But Republicans and Democrats differ substantially over several other factors, including faith, freedom, health and hobbies.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-03-2022 at 12:27 PM.
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    It doesn't surprise me that anyone voting Republican doesn't care about their mental health.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Mental health, to most of them, is covered in Spirituality, Faith and Religion.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    that "society, places, and institutions" doesn't make the top five for the left leaners is telling.

    that it is so far down for those leaning right is telling, too.

    people across the spectrum have come to take our society, places, and institutions for granted. or, in many cases, have come to outright resent them.

    you put your own ****ing hobbies above the health of your society and its institutions?

    no wonder we are so, so fooked.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    re republicans: wheres the question category about not wanting to pay taxes or adequately fund the govt?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post

    In February 2021, Pew Research Center asked 2,596 U.S. adults the following open-ended question: “What about your life do you currently find meaningful, fulfilling or satisfying? What keeps you going and why?”
    Do you really think this is what attracts people to the Republican Party?

    Try asking this: "What about your life do you find troubling or threatening? What makes you concerned for the future of our country and the well-being of your family?" Happiness is not the weapon used by Fox News and the right. Their weapon is fear.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    I find it interesting (and Socrates would find it even more so) that none of these areas, for either group, have much to do with how one defines or understands "meaning," but only with how one in some warm, fuzzy and inchoate way, might experience it. Or something which might be like it.

    Meaning, after all, is about what one values, and why one values it. Not so much about pleasurable activities, though it's nice when such things overlap.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Mental health, to most of them, is covered in Spirituality, Faith and Religion.
    That certainly explains a lot...
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    I must be a foaming-at-the-mouth rabid lefty, because I don't think I even know what "society, places, and institutions" means in this context.
    What color are their hands now?

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Sounds like a bogus study. Where is the Repug love of the second amendment?

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Placing Society in a category with physical objects seems irrational to me. I don't think of Places and Institutions as the things which make a society congeal.

    But maybe that's because I'm a left progressive.

    Society for me is an intangible. Places and Instutions are tangible objects which can signify Culture. They don't signify Society to me.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    that "society, places, and institutions" doesn't make the top five for the left leaners is telling.
    Baxter,

    that's a comment I find very interesting. You are very quick to question polling results that suggest progressive policies (many of them) are popular. You seem to think that data tells us nothing useful.

    But a simple survey response listing the top 5 concerns of the right and left, and you accept it as "telling." But let's think about why people might have answered the way they did, which might not imply a lack of concern for "society, places, and institutions" the way you seem to have accepted it does.

    1. In 2nd place, immediately after family, the left has "friends, community, and other relationships." Might it be plausible that "community" has significant overlap with "society"? And that "relationships" might include relationships with people connected to various institutions (i.e. postal workers, school board members, teachers, doctors, firefighters, police, etc.)?

    2. In 3rd place, the left has "material well-being, stability, and quality of life." Might it not be plausible that respondents recognize the key role that our public institutions play in stability and quality of life?

    3. In 5th place, hobbies and recreation. I'm betting local, state, and national parks are a significant factor in that response. And hey, our parks are connected to public institutions! And... and... those parks are PLACES!

    So, your conclusion:

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    people across the spectrum have come to take our society, places, and institutions for granted. or, in many cases, have come to outright resent them.
    is questionable in the extreme. You are seeing what you already believe in these survey responses, and taking them as evidence because they back up the opinions you already have.

    But if surveys come along that contradict you, you dismiss them out of hand. The very definition of cherry picking.

    Survey questions are simplistic. Often respondents are forced to choose an option that doesn't really reflect their thinking, and is one-dimensional. You of all people should know that--you point it out every time a survey contradicts your beliefs. So why are you so ready to believe this survey captures the entire reality of what people think is important?

    Tom
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    I've posted this before, but here's a change that's one major cause of the right freaking out. Note the south.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I've posted this before, but here's a change that's one major cause of the right freaking out. Note the south.
    One notable - the #'s for the NE are both higher, and tracking/accelerating trendwise with the South. I wonder that the NE doesn't seem to be freaking out in the same way...
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Look at the line for the south for the first 140 years. The rest of the country is used to it, or has at least been through it before, and the perception of 'normal' is different.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    That's interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Also notable is the basic flatline between 1850 and the end of the Viet Nam War for immigrant populations in the south. Does that reflect a 120 year history of intolerance that is just now surfacing or is the current intolerance a reflection of an abrupt change in the status quo?

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    re republicans: wheres the question category about not wanting to pay taxes or adequately fund the govt?
    .

    I remember when you were worried sbout the national debt and as a Republican i had to tell you its out of hand, now it does not bother you in the least.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Also notable is the basic flatline between 1850 and the end of the Viet Nam War for immigrant populations in the south. Does that reflect a 120 year history of intolerance that is just now surfacing or is the current intolerance a reflection of an abrupt change in the status quo?
    I think the main reason immigrants didn't come to the south in the late 19th and early 20th century was that there was a lot better opportunity in other parts of the country. The ex-Confederacy was a lot poorer, and didn't industrialize until very late; why go to Atlanta when you could go to Chicago or Pittsburgh or New York?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Baxter,

    that's a comment I find very interesting. You are very quick to question polling results that suggest progressive policies (many of them) are popular. You seem to think that data tells us nothing useful.

    But a simple survey response listing the top 5 concerns of the right and left, and you accept it as "telling." But let's think about why people might have answered the way they did, which might not imply a lack of concern for "society, places, and institutions" the way you seem to have accepted it does.

    1. In 2nd place, immediately after family, the left has "friends, community, and other relationships." Might it be plausible that "community" has significant overlap with "society"? And that "relationships" might include relationships with people connected to various institutions (i.e. postal workers, school board members, teachers, doctors, firefighters, police, etc.)?

    2. In 3rd place, the left has "material well-being, stability, and quality of life." Might it not be plausible that respondents recognize the key role that our public institutions play in stability and quality of life?

    3. In 5th place, hobbies and recreation. I'm betting local, state, and national parks are a significant factor in that response. And hey, our parks are connected to public institutions! And... and... those parks are PLACES!

    So, your conclusion:



    is questionable in the extreme. You are seeing what you already believe in these survey responses, and taking them as evidence because they back up the opinions you already have.

    But if surveys come along that contradict you, you dismiss them out of hand. The very definition of cherry picking.

    Survey questions are simplistic. Often respondents are forced to choose an option that doesn't really reflect their thinking, and is one-dimensional. You of all people should know that--you point it out every time a survey contradicts your beliefs. So why are you so ready to believe this survey captures the entire reality of what people think is important?

    Tom
    Thats funny, after post number 2 where you broad brush all Republicans you pick apart someone else.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    now it does not bother you in the least.
    lies
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Do you really think this is what attracts people to the Republican Party?

    Try asking this: "What about your life do you find troubling or threatening? What makes you concerned for the future of our country and the well-being of your family?" Happiness is not the weapon used by Fox News and the right. Their weapon is fear.
    Fear ..?.
    You might note all the threads where every liberal would rather live in France or Europe.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    lies
    I know, it's those pesky questions, call in help.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Since every Republican politician would rather be eaten by ants than raise taxes by a fraction of a penny on anyone over the 80th percentile in income, when any of them mention the 'national debt' it should be met by howls of derision and a hail of rotten tomatoes.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    I remember Reagan and Thatcher telling us that society did not exist. Only individuals……..

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    lies
    Everyone lies.

    Soon there will folks here telling us our personal space does not matter and we should get used to it. but in threads about affordable home ownership, retirement and healthcare costs are quite outspoken. Keith laid a perfectly good reasons why so many are pissed and feel liberals have changed their lives via immigration policy. He is not concerned about how these citizens leaning toward republican feel about it nor does he think their claims are valid to keep it that way. moreover those who arrive before 1989 tend to lean more republican than those who arrived later. Historically laid out in time lines speaking this country was open to immigration and since vietnam, we have witnessed the closing of the american Frontier and cheap land. Yet each one of us has been profoundly impacted by the increased numbers of people coming to this country and changing the landscape, adding to pollution and impacting our quality of life.

    It is also no coincidence that union participation is down leaving most common citizens no voice or seat at the table.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-03-2022 at 05:07 PM.
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    He is not concerned about how these citizens leaning toward republican feel about it nor does he think their claims are valid to keep it that way.
    Really? Is that what I think? And you know this how?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    lies
    When all you've got is lies... might as well roll with it, eh?
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Really? Is that what I think? And you know this how?
    years of observation. You have always been pro immigration and written extensively about it often commenting how much better a place is with new people arriving and cultural changes that they provide. I believe your latin american experience and church work has made you so. Your embrace of cultural change is very compassionate towards the plight of mass migrations, modern urban american and progressively democratic.

    i hold great respect for your thoughts on these matters and take a great deal from them as I consider my own.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-03-2022 at 05:28 PM.
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Since every Republican politician would rather be eaten by ants than raise taxes by a fraction of a penny on anyone over the 80th percentile in income, when any of them mention the 'national debt' it should be met by howls of derision and a hail of rotten tomatoes.
    As I recall both Obama and Biden pledged to not raise taxes on those in the 19% below the 1% - chosen to correspond to the 80th percentile. For Obama that corresponded to an income (on some line on a tax form) of less than $250K. For Biden; $400K.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post

    In February 2021, Pew Research Center asked 2,596 U.S. adults the following open-ended question: “What about your life do you currently find meaningful, fulfilling or satisfying? What keeps you going and why?” Researchers then evaluated the answers and grouped them into the most commonly mentioned categories.
    I would think that a better way to finish the survey would have been to redo the survey with a similar individuals but having individuals select answers from the "groups". The differences in the survey as done might disappear.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    i hold great respect for your thoughts on these matters and take a great deal from them as I consider my own.
    best keith wilson troll in years
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    am i the only person here who finds it extremely difficult to draw any conclusions from the pew survey with regards to as why someone might be a republican or a democrat?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    am i the only person here who finds it extremely difficult to draw any conclusions from the pew survey with regards to as why someone might be a republican or a democrat?
    I've suggested before that there are some bilge rats who consistently demonstrate that 'their brain just don't work right'. Posting this survey, in this form, with this commentary... is just one example of that phenomenon.
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    Default Re: The draw of Republicans and the changing of America

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    I know, it's those pesky questions, call in help.
    The concern about debt is a problem considerably related to "some people's" unwillingness to service it. I don't mind paying taxes. Like you, I don't like waste and how we spend it matters but the price of freedom, health, education and functional necessary institutions has never been low. In other words, what Keith said.
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