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Thread: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Cool I was checking out the variations. System 3 has some stuff too.

    One thing that I wonder about: In the instructions on the link you shared it recommends wetting out the area you are going to fair with unthickened epoxy. Do I really want to be saturating the wood around the fasteners with epoxy? It might not be bad I guess. should I skip that step?

    Tomorrow I will be taking the curve of the floorboard margin with tick sticks and then I'll be building a temp tarp boat shelter and flipping the boat onto sturdy horses, to start the bottom and topside prep.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I would use as little epoxy as possible. For whatever reason it is popular in this venue to spread it liberally.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I can see it's use in boats glued up with epoxy and as an adhesive it's pretty good, likes a glue line etc. I've used it for bow handle risers and recurve reinforcements. And for fixing the false keel and gluing up a mahogany strip centerboard and kickup ridder for my shellback dingy. Certainly glued lapstrake boats are pretty durable and maintenance free.

    I'm pretty fond of this Gartside though.

    Do you have an alternative suggestion for fairing fastener holes and areas where the paint's chipped away etc, on a cedar hull.?

    All the fairing compounds seem to some sort of two part mix. the 3M stuff is a 'vinylester'
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-31-2022 at 01:40 AM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I've been using window putty to fill screw holes on my boat. It's linseed oil based, and dries very slowly. I've only used it below the waterline.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    One thing that I wonder about: In the instructions on the link you shared it recommends wetting out the area you are going to fair with unthickened epoxy. Do I really want to be saturating the wood around the fasteners with epoxy? It might not be bad I guess. should I skip that step?


    I didn't realize you were fairing the hull...
    if you are just filling screw holes mix up a little bit up like putty and go for the screw holes
    (See the last two sentences in west's quote above, make up some tests)

  6. #41
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post

    Do you have an alternative suggestion for fairing fastener holes and areas where the paint's chipped away etc, on a cedar hull.?
    Famowood and followed with the fine grained 3m product...single part, forget the name. Only use epoxy on very shallow screw holes, where otherwise material would fall out.
    Last edited by pcford; 05-31-2022 at 03:46 PM.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Paul Gartside suggested 3M acryl marine white glazing putty
    Also strangely hard to find up here. Also used for auto body word etc.
    Is that what you mean for the 3M product

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Paul Gartside suggested 3M acryl marine white glazing putty
    Also strangely hard to find up here. Also used for auto body word etc.
    Is that what you mean for the 3M product
    yes. good stuff.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    "Glazing putty" does not like to be very thick, and likes to be applied over primer.

    I would probably use the red for the shorter cure time. You may be disappointed by the long working time if it is too thick. (+1/16")
    (I have used a lot of this stuff painting cars, it is sort of a last step after the real "filling" and fairing is done)

    from the 3m site:
    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067518/

  10. #45
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    All good to know. I'm mostly filling fastener holes though there's some areas along the keel and stem where there was some putty or epoxy easing the transition between the planking and the stem and keel that had come loose that I picked out that I will probably be fairing.

    Today I used hot glue and tick sticks to take the curve off the floorboard margins. Used the materials I had at hand and I think it worked well.
    Then I finished up my stern sheet initial cardboard template. Paul Gartside very nicely gave me a light construction scan, but the side benches on my #130 are 9" instead of the 11' on the plans. So I adjusted the removable stern sheets accordingly by making each board an inch wider than the plans have them.
    Still have to fine tune the curve in situ. But for now I'll rough them out.

    Then as I had help I set up some horses, took the boat off the trailer and flipped it onto the horses to work on the bottom. I did ponder just splashing it as is, and sailing it, probably would've been wise, and fun, but I started scraping so maybe too late.
    Mostly went at it with a scraper. Lots's of loose-ish bottom paint particularly on and around the oak bottom rails (proper term?) and the keel.
    More fastener plugs popped out, All some white or yellowish or sometimes red or brown stuff. A few even have rubbery stuff. Some of the bottom rails seem to be bedded in some rubbery substance(sikaflex?)
    Gave the whole bottom a good scrape, In some small areas the paint came down to the wood and the bottom rails are pretty well wooded. What I can see of the wood looks good.

    Time to look up an appropriate primer for those bits.

    The paint under the bottom paint seems to be white.
    The top sides look decent except for some blobs and runs and the occasional fastener hole plug missing. And the area around the stem where I lifted out the loose filler.I should've got a picture but I was in a rush to pack up and go.
    I don't need bottom paint but it seems a hellish mess to take it all off when I could fill it, prime the bare spots and paint it with some micron I already have and be floating..or at least mostly.





    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-31-2022 at 10:57 PM.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    For old fastener holes I would drill them out oversized and epoxy in a plug.
    Completely reliable method and gives you full flexibility to re-drill the hole if you need to.

    Sweet boat - looks like someone really cared when they made it. Nice one!


    You gonna store it outside? Upside down?
    Noticed a lack of a bung in the transom - it'd be a pity to see rain collect in the bilges.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I might have missed it, but have you dropped the boat into the water to check for leaks, especially around the daggerboard case, keel and transom? Some strakes might need refastening also. It would be a shame to get the boat all prettied up only to have to dig into leak repairs afterwards.
    She's a lovely little boat and I hope you enjoy her.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    No I haven't and I've been kicking myself about it. Kicking myself even harder now it's upside down on horses with some of the fairing pulled out of the stem..yay! Maybe I will flip her and put her in anyway. it would be fun to sink! Where she is now, the closest and easily accessible water is fresh, not salt. I worried about that too, worry worry.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Let the boat sink and remain in water for a couple days.
    People should not get the vapors if a boat which has not been used for some time takes on water. It likely will.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by sp_clark View Post
    I could write a book Tom, but in the interest of bandwidth conservation I guess I owe it to Forumites here to bring to your attention an opus thread over on the forum run by FyneBoats in the UK.

    Just passed the 1,000 posts milestone, with one contributor having actually authored and published a book telling of his experiences a'building one of these things, there are contributors from here in the US as well as Europe adding contributions often. I count myself as fortunate to be among them, and to have struck up a friendship and correspondence with another Waterlust builder here in the US who's not a direct contributor.

    Plan on spending some time digesting what's available there, it's that long.

    As for myself, I'm almost done with adding CLC's add-on aka+ama stabilization accessory ("training wheels" if you prefer) for their Waterlust canoe. Weather permitting I may very well be at the Messabout on Lake Pepin this coming Saturday with my Waterlust Nora Jane for show and tell.
    Thanks! I'll check it out when time allows. Sadly, I won't be at the Lake Pepin event--busy busy busy, AND the wheel bearings and lights are bad on the trailer. Busy busy!

    Nice photo: the East Bluff makes a fine background to your beauty of a boat.

    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

  16. #51
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Why do I feel like I'm in another dimension?

    Hey Mr Ford. I'm expecting leaking upon splashing. However I don't have a place to sink the boat and let it sit on the bottom for a few days. I am currently renting a place with a dock but there's zero access from the road/driveway(about a hundred steps up a cliff) and otherwise getting the boat there would require rowing ,towing or sailing it for about an hour (about 4 nautical miles from a ramp.) Even if I could get it here it's at least 13' deep at low tide with no beach annnd I can't occupy it during july and august(quirky lease)

    It will mostly be the topsides that I make look 'pretty'. I actually don't need my boat to be perfect mostly functional and workmanlike and pleasing to sail and behold. If it doesn't take up perfectly and I have to redo the bottom some afterwards then so be it, it's not a huge boat.
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 06-01-2022 at 08:41 PM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Why do I feel like I'm in another dimension?

    Hey Mr Ford. I'm expecting leaking upon splashing. However I don't have a place to sink the boat and let it sit on the bottom for a few days. I am currently renting a place with a dock but there's zero access from the road/driveway(about a hundred steps up a cliff) and otherwise getting the boat there would require rowing ,towing or sailing it for about an hour (about 4 nautical miles from a ramp.) Even if I could get it here it's at least 13' deep at low tide with no beach annnd I can't occupy it during july and august(quirky lease)

    It will mostly be the topsides that I make look 'pretty'. I actually don't need my boat to be perfect mostly functional and workmanlike and pleasing to sail and behold. If it doesn't take up perfectly and I have to redo the bottom some afterwards then so be it, it's not a huge boat.
    You are not in another dimension; you just have to follow the way things have been done for generations. Surely you could find a place other than your home location to let the boat soak up? (?) If for some reason, this is impossible, put wet sawdust under the boat and cover it with plastic.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    You are not in another dimension; you just have to follow the way things have been done for generations. Surely you could find a place other than your home location to let the boat soak up? (?) If for some reason, this is impossible, put wet sawdust under the boat and cover it with plastic.
    Sorry I wasn't clear, the other dimension was the humourous complete sidetrack on the thread preceding my post

    There is a very small lake about 15 minutes away. I'd have to dolly it to the water which isn't a big deal. The closest actual boat ramp into the ocean is about 23km from the boats location. It costs about $30 and I would have to pick an off time or put up with the ire of other boaters. Stupid boat launches!
    It is currently upside down over earth on horses and loosely covered in a tarp. I could put buckets of water under it.
    Is it better to let it soak up before proceeding with fairing and paint?

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Sorry I wasn't clear, the other dimension was the humourous complete sidetrack on the thread preceding my post
    Sorry! My fault!

    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

  20. #55
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Sorry! My fault!

    Tom
    No problem

    Regarding splashing the boat. Is there a big advantage to do so prior to repair/filling/painting to determine problem areas?

  21. #56
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    With it upside down put some canvas, old carpet, or something over it and wet it down each day for a week or so. There won't be enough weight when wetted to damage the boat.

    If anyone finds fault with this, I won't argue with them as I have never had to do this.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Thanks, that's a good idea. For now I'm letting the powers that be wet it down. We're having our usual days of rain here in the rainforest. Going to try splashing it on Monday, when it gets sunny/dry again, see if there's any problem areas that need special attention, let it dry and then get back to work. In the meantime I will have had the fun of taking the boat to this lake, putting it in the water (I will add some flotation for the trip) and if it doesn't go straight to the bottom maybe pottering around the tiny lake for a while.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    As there was a spell of good weather after the on and off torrential downpours of the last couple days. I decided to try and float the boat in this tiny local lake that's pretty close. It's a beach launch so I would use one of my dollies. Braced it side to side and then managed to get if off the horses nicely and then flipped over in the yard on some tires by myself. went well. Lashed a bunch of goofy flotation inside (fenders, giant sealed Jug etc. added a bailer and a kayak pump. Hauled it up onto my trailer (It's a break back trailer), packed all the gear in and headed off.

    Plan was to put it in the water and see what happened.
    If it didn't leak too badly I would try rowing around close to shore.
    If that went well I would try sailing.
    Launched off the dolly and no sign of water
    That went well. the only water I could see was brought in on my sandals etc.

    So I set up the rig in a somewhat makeshift fashion, rowed out past the lillypads and set sail.
    Worked very well
    Not sure if I'm that keen on the sail sheeting amidships on the top bridle on the thwart but I could get used to it. Definitely going to switch out some blocks though.
    There probably should've been a swivel on the lower becket block. I was just using what came with the boat
    Seems to track well, There were some good gusts that gave me a nice turn of speed at points taunting the zillion canoes and paddles boats.



    there's a couple of heavier ropes attached to the gunwales just behind either side of the mast, both have heavy duty BIG snap shackles on the them. You can see one in the sailing picture.
    Preventers? Hardly seems necessary
    I sailed around for about 2 hours. Pretty light air. the boat ghosted quite well.

    As I had gotten in and out twice there was a little puddle in the boat but it was so little that I was unsure whether some was leakage or not. Hard to tell. I really expected a lot more
    Seems auspicious.
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 06-05-2022 at 12:44 AM.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Great!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Cool .That means you can just go sailing...that distressed paint look you have going on there suits the boat.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Thanks though I want to get the floorboards and sternsheets done, so I might as well get the bottom filled and painted to.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Great splash report!
    Couldn't ask for much better.
    She is a keeper for sure.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Hey, that looks like Deer Lake! We walk around it several times a week...!

    Nice little Gartside, a real beauty!

    All the best,
    Dale

  29. #64
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Looks like you drew a lot of attention from the local paddlers, too Good find!

  30. #65
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Looks like you drew a lot of attention from the local paddlers, too Good find!
    There was piles of them as there is a boat rental place. probably 20-40 other canoes etc. on the water. I was the only sailboat, something of a novelty
    It was interesting that despite the ratty looking condition of my sanded hull and the flaking brightwork up top, everyone had something nice to say about the boat.

    And yes it was Deer Lake ,dsimonson, idyllic looking and chock full of goose pooh!
    It's my test pond for little boats I'm working on.
    Too bad you weren't there yesterday afternoon.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    There! I have pulled out(if loose or cracked)and mostly cleaned out 240 fastener holes to be filled. Most very shallow with maybe a dozen deeper ones.Still sorting out what to use but many viable options have been suggested

  32. #67
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Floorboards milled out at my brothers house. (He has a planer and table saw) We had acquired lots of tight-grained old growth red cedar boards 16' long, lots of locust and other wood when we were trying to resto a Norwegian BB11. Now I'm reading the benefits as my brother and I milled up some lovely red cedar floor boards with ridiculously tight grain. It looks like yew's grain.
    Also did some strapping for the boards. I might use the same material for the stern sheets. If I ever needed to replace any planks on this Gartside there are several tight grained quarter sawn 16' cedar boards 1+" thick. Might come in handy one day.
    Also grabbed a 2x4 chunk of locust to make some additional cleats out of

    Paul Gartside Quote of the day:

    "Do remember it's a boat not a piece of furniture. What it needs most is salt water and regular use."

    Words to live by






  33. #68
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Well done with the trial launch, lack of water in the hull is an excellent sign. I know Dick Bedell loves his boat - know he has been in contact with you. He'd probably be happy to discuss sailing setup & rigging. These boats are npt fast but sail well.

    Regards Neil

  34. #69
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Floorboards milled out at my brothers house. (He has a planer and table saw) We had acquired lots of tight-grained old growth red cedar boards 16' long, lots of locust and other wood when we were trying to resto a Norwegian BB11. Now I'm reading the benefits as my brother and I milled up some lovely red cedar floor boards with ridiculously tight grain. It looks like yew's grain.
    Also did some strapping for the boards. I might use the same material for the stern sheets. If I ever needed to replace any planks on this Gartside there are several tight grained quarter sawn 16' cedar boards 1+" thick. Might come in handy one day.
    Also grabbed a 2x4 chunk of locust to make some additional cleats out of

    Paul Gartside Quote of the day:

    "Do remember it's a boat not a piece of furniture. What it needs most is salt water and regular use."

    Words to live by



    Nice timber, are you painting or clear finishing them? If you are painting then ignore the rest of this blurb, if not...
    The random color and grain orientation in the set out of your sole boards may be the way you have chosen to do it, and that's fine, but by any chance did you consider setting the boards out in a way that the grain and colors mirrored (book matched) each other. Looking at the above image ,the grain and color suggests to me the boards are in pairs. Just a thought, your boat, your call, sail on.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Cedar would not be my first choice for this application. Very soft.

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