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Thread: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

  1. #141
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Seems like a good place for the end of the mainsheet to catch just when you want it running free. Should be fun!

    Tom
    That's exactly what I was asking a few posts ago, post 127 actually

    A couple more questions/ It seems the stern sheets would stay in the boat largely due to gravity
    There are though these little toggles, two a side on the beams that support the stern sheets
    I can only guess that these located in notches in the bottom of the sternsheets to stop the boards from moving fore and aft, however simply having the straps on either side of the beams would do the same thing.
    Is there something I'm missing?

    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-21-2022 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Gaps...entirely up to you, I guess it's a case of working within the stock dimensions that you have and the look that you want.
    A couple of straps underneath to stop the fore and aft movement would work. If you do glue all the boards together, then slotted holes in the straps to allow for timber expansion/contraction may be prudent.
    Maybe look at fixing the toggles to the underside of the sternsheets instead. These would then locate under the side benches when rotated and keep things in place if inverted. I'm sure you will figure it out.


    If you do decide on a 1/4 inch gap, just use a slightly larger diameter mainsheet.
    Paul Gartside didn't seem to think gaps would be a problem.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

    "Don't take life seriously. Either way, you won't make it out alive."

  3. #143
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    My brother is going to turn me another pair of black locust belaying pins
    The ones that came with the boat are rather round. They look good in the boat but I wonder if one could do a quick release with such wide bases and fat little knobs?
    Maybe it doesn't matter. Next to it is one of the black locust pins from my shellback dinghy. I think this shape is more practical

    Finally got the floorboards and straps laid out and holes drilled, threw a coat of oil on because I wanted to. THey're a little different from each other because frankly the existing margins in the boat are a little different. Maybe I should 've made them symmetrical but I made tick sticks for both sides and did it that way. I'll do it differently in the next life.

    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-22-2022 at 01:22 AM.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1902 View Post
    Gaps...entirely up to you, I guess it's a case of working within the stock dimensions that you have and the look that you want.
    A couple of straps underneath to stop the fore and aft movement would work. If you do glue all the boards together, then slotted holes in the straps to allow for timber expansion/contraction may be prudent.
    Maybe look at fixing the toggles to the underside of the sternsheets instead. These would then locate under the side benches when rotated and keep things in place if inverted. I'm sure you will figure it out.


    If you do decide on a 1/4 inch gap, just use a slightly larger diameter mainsheet.
    Paul Gartside didn't seem to think gaps would be a problem.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Hey, Thanks again. I wondered about that, I should ask Paul Gartside. He's very nice and was quite helpful. The boat was originally designed as a rowboat. Paul said he added the sail rig afterwards because everyone wanted to sail the boat. He thinks for ideal sailing it should have a centreboard and pickup rudder. Future projects maybe.
    Interesting his choice of a tall battened lugsail with a roach. I could also do a 1/16" gap/ Not gluing all the boards together, just the centre 2. That makes it simpler and allows me to even up the dimensions between the 3 parts better.toggles under the stern sheets, of course! and easy.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I can live with this. Still have to finish the curve and a couple other small things, then more sanding, nicely rounding corners and attaching to straps etc.
    Probably end up with a 3/32 gap between the middle board and the side ones. I'll just have to use a giant mainsheet.




  6. #146
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Looks great.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

    "Don't take life seriously. Either way, you won't make it out alive."

  7. #147
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    That really looks nice! And bigger sheets are so much nicer on the hand.

  8. #148
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Here's my dumb question for the day.
    Any reason that one would fasten the stern sheets to their straps from above (necessitating plugs likely) rather than from below (invisible!). Is it because of better holding power and avoiding screws in the bum in case of failure?

  9. #149
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Here's my dumb question for the day.
    Any reason that one would fasten the stern sheets to their straps from above (necessitating plugs likely) rather than from below (invisible!). Is it because of better holding power and avoiding screws in the bum in case of failure?
    Getting under there to put the screws in might be challenging.A bit of creativity with rebated cleats and maybe turnbuttons might be another solution worth investigating.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Sorry, I wasn't clear. the stern sheets are removable, and are 3 boards fastened together by being screwed to 'straps', they are them dropped into the boat and held in place by turnbuttons/toggles as you suggest.
    What I was wondering is; Is there any reason why I can't fasten them to the 'straps' from underneath, thus avoiding countersinking and gluing in plugs etc.? I realize it wouldn't be quite as strong

  11. #151
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't clear. the stern sheets are removable, and are 3 boards fastened together by being screwed to 'straps', they are them dropped into the boat and held in place by turnbuttons/toggles as you suggest.
    What I was wondering is; Is there any reason why I can't fasten them to the 'straps' from underneath, thus avoiding countersinking and gluing in plugs etc.? I realize it wouldn't be quite as strong
    I fastened up through the straps, no glue. The way I had designed it all meant the strap thickness matched that of the sternsheet boards so it didn't matter which way they were fastened.
    Came down to aesthetics really.
    I used a #10 stainless screw 1" x 3/16th" major diameter thread. Reasonably coarse threaded all the way up to the countersink and chunky. All seems solid enough.
    Because your strapping could be thicker, the option of fixing down from the top with slotted bronze wood screws and making a feature of the exposed screw heads would suit the look of the dinghy.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

    "Don't take life seriously. Either way, you won't make it out alive."

  12. #152
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Ahh sadly my bronze fasteners have Roberson heads, and while they are superior they don't look as traditional. I'm going to fasten them in from the bottom. As the straps aren't a featured part, I can always decide to fasten from the top later using new straps.
    Good to know it's done, it seemed to make sense cosmetically if not as string. Stern sheets finished shaped ,sanded and 1st coat of finish on.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Not as strong? Hmm...two pieces of wood screwed together either way, not sure it makes enough difference to matter one way or the other. Sternsheets are not exactly a structural piece anyway. Maybe it's the old stage hand in me but nobody will see what kind of bronze screw you use.

    That is turning into a sweet looking little boat, that curve in the transom is a nice touch.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
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  14. #154
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Couple of coats of varnish on the stern sheets and looking fine. 3 more coats to go. Thanks

    Okay time for some extra cleats! And maybe some spar fixing!

    Cleat location question. Currently there only amidship cleats, which are fine for fenders and belaying the main sheet but I want bow and stern line cleats etc.
    Have the cleats made up and mostly finsh sanded
    Sten location closest to the back within the swing of the tiller so not as likely to be a normally occupied seating area.
    Bow location
    It could up near the bow above the aft end of the quarter knee(Is that what it's called?) but the knee is pretty close to the cleat. I could go father back just behind the forward that as well.

    I'm leaning towards the further aft bow location, hmmm


    Also repairing he spar by gluing on some reenforcing wood, I have couple pieces made up. The main one is 11" long 1 1/8" wide by about 1/2" thick in the middle(for 3")
    Fitted the curvature of the spar and tapering on both ends to about 1/4" thick by about 7" wide. Still too chunky. I plant to taper it more after it is glued on
    I thought having it 1/2" thick in the middle will allow me to put a slight groove to locate the halyard
    Made out of tight grained old growth Douglas fir because that's what I had.
    The other piece is quite a bit lighter at 5/16" thick tapering to 3/16" and only 3/4" wide, just barely covers the holes. I made that one for the top originally







  15. #155
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Suggest the cleats should be close to where you will be sitting. If you plan to largely single-hand this boat when you are sailing then you should be sitting roughly halfway between bow and stern - longitudinal balance is very important in a smallish sailing craft - so it sounds to me as if the previous cleats were possibly in the right place.
    Do you think that mast needs strengthening? Would it be ok just to plug those holes with wood plugs glued in? For me I would just plug them - but that's just my thoughts.

    Regards Neil

  16. #156
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    X2 on the aft cleat location. Especially for singlehanding. What a lucky boat to get all this attention lavished on her

  17. #157
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Is there a way to simply lash the cleats on? They look big enough to go a great job catching a sheet at an inopportune moment, you also have the ability to easily relocate if your best first guess isn't optimal.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  18. #158
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    THanks.
    The boom sheets amidships right on the middle thwart, There's a much more prominent original cleat on either side of that thwart which actually prompted me to make these comparatively low profile ones, for comfort and safety. The two new ones, bow and stern are both pretty far from the main sheet location, I imagine they could be lashed on , on my shellback I mounted my cleats in the slot in the gunwale, through bolted to apiece below, completely non-invasive and movable . however they sat atop the gunwale. I will also be replacing the original ones with my lower profile ones (I made 6)

    The spar in question is the yard rather than the mast, so 10' in the air above my head, one of the 3/4" holes goes about 5/8" into it, almost halfway, It was countersinking oops on part of the builder I believe.
    I will probably plug the holes as I have a fir dowel, that's exactly the right size but it will be mostly to get more glue surface.
    I'm going to use it as is tomorrow on an inaugural sail in a local lovely hydro electric lake.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Enjoy that sail, you've earned it.
    I just tie my dock lines through the open gunwale, no cleats.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    What a day, just got back!

    Woken up at 6:15 Emergency broadcast, multiple shooter in a township in the Vancouver area because apparently we've become Chicago..(which is my kind of town) Normally unheard of here

    Got to work finished my floorboards,(assemble and install) finished my sternsheets (same as before) put the yard back to how it was for an inaugural sail, laced the sail to the mast. the night before I'd finished sewing in 2 reefs (4 patches 6 nettles) and adding to layers off luff tape top the sail's luff as it had NO reenforcement., didn't get the reef grommets installed but I was taking it out to picturesque lake that usually had light breezes. Finished at 2, Picked up the squirrelfriend and headed out, Launched easy, rigged her up with some tufnell blocks for a main with a cam cleat..Not traditional, but handy and practical, easy to release. Rowed out , set sail and sailed down the lake on a run.The main part is about 3 km long, sailed back upwind but there was very little of it at that point made it about 1 km before we tied up in a little sheltered area behind a point, swam (yay!) and had a some lunch/dinner. Rowed the other 2+ Km back

    The oars feel funny on this boat, they look great but look to me VERY narrow blades maybe 4" wide at the tips and tapering from the tips back other shaft. They are basically rectangular They feel like they don't enter the water as nice as my Barkely sound flat oars.
    The narrowest blades I've seen on oars. TJHey also have very small handles, like a %$#^%$ rolling pin .

    I rowed about 6-7km total as when we got back to the dock my keys were missing from the dry bag where I religiously put them with my wallet. My squirrel friend had been using as a carry things around bag as she had put her purse pin it...(I should call it the dry purse) She doesn't always close it up right.. I normally have it stay in the boat lashed or clipped around something, take stuff in an out of it as needed.I use it for anything that can'y get wet or lost that I care about.
    Park was closing, ranger's weren't thrilled, pulled my boat apart, look EVERYWHERE.
    Squirrelfriend searched purse....
    No keys
    8:10 pm
    Got permission to row the 4km there and back to the picnic spot
    Rowed there, looked and then rowed back. No keys
    Took me an hour!! and I was rowing pretty good, seemed relatively fast on the water.
    Rowed there, realizing I'd left my backpack with the headlamp at the dock
    BCAA couldn't tow a trailer, just a car and one passenger. Rangers had to go home and lock up.
    So I had to leave boat and car there and be driven to the gate.
    Stupidly left boat tied at dock, (I believe floating..the dock)

    Should've got some of the Rangers to help me haul it up high and dry, Seems more natural to have it well tied with fenders on the dock.
    Nice brother drove an hour to pick us up. While waiting and watching the park rangers leaving for the night the squireelfriend found my keys in a pocket of here purse she Neve uses..which is why she didn't search it apparently.

    Worried about the boat some, Just got it going. I hope no hoodlums are sneaking into the park to party tonight, I hope it doesn't sink at the dock. It wasn't taking on water and it was in the water for 5 hours.
    Ah well, the floorboards and stern sheets went well. The stern sheets still need another 3 coats of varnish, Gave them some good marking up!
    I have some question sabout lugsails with laced foots, not used to it. How to lace? The starter card used to lace the sailing on was very stiff.
    Should the sail be laced tightly to the spars(outhaul aside) this boat's lacing is also the outhual, so far. Felt like I kept needing to loosen the outhaul, which loosened the foot, as the sail looked kid of flat.
    Still want to figure out a run the downhaul aft rig, need some attachment points though

    Tried a couple different points to attach the down haul, partway down the boom at the purple heart deadeye indicated by the plans (I took the 3 (3!) purple heart deadeyes off the boom and made them more low profile and rounded)
    and then at the very end where there's a loosely attached plastic dead eye. Then put a block around the boom between these but then no wind. Excuse my hasty and gimpy downhaul setup. I rigged it better after dinner, but was then rowing

    Phone was dying didn't get many photos






  21. #161
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Boat retrieved, no water nor hooliganism, allis well.
    Messing with my rigging.
    Does anyone know a good set up or have a diagram of a way to run the downhaul to the cockpit?
    I made an obviously overcomplicated system (only 5 blocks!!) that works and utilizes one of the original back-jabbing high profile cleats, I have another Tuffnel block with a cam cleat I could use.
    Still trying o decide on the place to tie off the downhaul. the purple heart dead eye seems to far forward. The plans say standing lug but that would seem more like a balanced lug.
    Still trying to get used to mid ship main sheeting, Also I'm not sure if I like the mast traveller. I might ditch it, at least with the ring it's a PITA, maybe it would be better with a loop of loop, The ring is hard ti get on and gets hung up trying to get it off.





  22. #162
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    How often do you plan to adjust your downhaul? I find that I only adjust mine occasionally--often go for long stretches with the same downhaul tension if the wind is steady. I'd bet more type A sailors interested in wringing every bit of performance out of a rig do use it more, but honestly, for casual sailing and cruising, you don't need that. I do still get good sail shape, and adjust as needed.

    However, I don't lead the downhaul back to the helm. I have it on a 3:1 system, with a fiddle block/cam cleat combo attached to the clew with a snap shackle. The free end of the downhaul comes off that cam cleat and leads back to my forward thwart, about midships. If I do need to adjust it, I can leave the tiller for a moment and do so (especially since I generally sail with a bungee/line tiller tamer).

    It does keep the cockpit clear of clutter and lines, which I think is more important than having an infrequently-adjusted line led back to the helm.

    Tom
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  23. #163
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Here's a photo of my system, looking aft from the port bow--works well for me, but I'm not sure how it would combine with belaying pins as your boat has:

    downhaul.jpg

    I spliced an eye at the becket block on the bottom to make it a bit neater. I find I have to be almost up at the mast for the cam cleat to catch when I adjust the tension, but as I said in my last post, that's not a problem for me.

    Tom
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  24. #164
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Those 2 pulleys for the downhaul on the stringer are providing no mechanical advantage as they are both fixed.
    Wi-Tom's system is what you need.
    If you swap the two blocks shown so the cleat is at the bottom, the lead angle will be right so you can adjust it from anywhere in the boat.
    The tail can be tied to the stern somewhere so it is always at hand.

  25. #165
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Somehow I missed the pics that show your floorboards. Love the "framed" look that the darker sides provide. Nice touch. It's those little accents that are fun to come up with. Gives each boat that little flair that makes it individual. I love finding those ideas. Looking good!

    Ken
    When the desire to learn is greater than the desire to win, the journey becomes the prize.

  26. #166
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Boat retrieved, no water nor hooliganism, allis well.
    Messing with my rigging.
    Does anyone know a good set up or have a diagram of a way to run the downhaul to the cockpit?
    I made an obviously overcomplicated system (only 5 blocks!!) that works and utilizes one of the original back-jabbing high profile cleats, I have another Tuffnel block with a cam cleat I could use.
    Still trying o decide on the place to tie off the downhaul. the purple heart dead eye seems to far forward. The plans say standing lug but that would seem more like a balanced lug.
    Still trying to get used to mid ship main sheeting, Also I'm not sure if I like the mast traveller. I might ditch it, at least with the ring it's a PITA, maybe it would be better with a loop of loop, The ring is hard ti get on and gets hung up trying to get it off.



    Can you pull the clew out further aft, to tension the foot of the sail?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #167
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I tension the luff on my lug and sprit sails by running a line around a cleat and back through the tack eye. Pull tight and make fast.

  28. #168
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Can you pull the clew out further aft, to tension the foot of the sail?
    I don't sail boats with booms much anymore, but I always wondered how tight the foot of the sail should be. Tighter=flatter sail=less power, right? So, in lighter winds, a looser foot is desirable? I'm self-taught and my teacher wasn't that great, so any thoughts on that?

    Tom
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  29. #169
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I tension the luff on my lug and sprit sails by running a line around a cleat and back through the tack eye. Pull tight and make fast.
    A standing lugsail in particular needs significant tension on the luff. My 3:1 system seems about right for my boat (85 sq ft boomless standing lugsail). When I was sailing a boat with a 75 sq ft balance lug (boomed, obviously), the downhaul was a simple tension knot (similar to a modified trucker's hitch) tied off with a slipped half hitch for quick release.

    Tom
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  30. #170
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I don't sail boats with booms much anymore, but I always wondered how tight the foot of the sail should be. Tighter=flatter sail=less power, right? So, in lighter winds, a looser foot is desirable? I'm self-taught and my teacher wasn't that great, so any thoughts on that?

    Tom
    It should not be as saggy as in those two pictures.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #171
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    On RanTan I have turning blocks rigged so I can lead both halyard and tack down haul to cam cleats on the underside of the forward thwart. I can reach both the cemter of the boat. A neat clean rig and importantly instantly releasable. 3 to 1 tackle on the tack downhaul. So that the sail is hoisted from amidships then the tack is tensioned. These can also be rigged on either side of the CB trunk.

    On your boat turning blocks could be rigged from a number of places: pennants using the belaying pin holes, knotted at the top, with the block under them, pennants tied onto the risers, or maybe some eyes affixed to the mast step ( I can't see if you have some wood down there on to which to fasten. Big belaying pins is kind of an affectation.

    If you want quick release without cam cleats, a half pin set under a thwart at its after edge works real well with a slippery hitch.

    As you use the mid boom sheeting you will like it. Sheet is right in front of you, don't need to twist around. If you need to get a smoother run on your traveler, use a little block.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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  32. #172
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Had a good sail today on the lake, Had a really simple downhaul using the brass loop that's bolted into the thwart/mast partners. Worked fine.
    As far as leading it aft, I would only adjust it for up or down wind or tighter and looser in different strength breezes, if it seemed necessary. I've tried it with my Shellback and it's like loosening sails in light breezes. I'm not an obsessive tweaker.
    Completely forgot to try the yard attached further forward. Oops. I had brought along another halyard for just that purpose (The existing one is eye-spliced/served to the mast traveller) but I forgot!

    Excuse the carpet around the mast. I need to leather the partners,,, and leather or whip the spars too still. I like that stuff though, not smelly sticky or endless.
    As per Canoe Yawl's suggestion, for now (till I have time to repair it properly. I have flipped the yard, streamlined the purple heart deadeye and used it as a locator for a spliced loop around the yard. I plan to add strengthening though as well.

    As far as the floorboards go, I built the floorboards but the margin was already there, also red cedar though the plans call for oak/hardwood., It had either been oiled endlessly or painted /stained till it was dark brown , providing a contrast for the new oiled floorboards. The centreboard is oak or mahogany/teak and varnished.

    Very comfy boat, Very roomy compared to the Shellback. Louder water chuckling (more strakes, cedar planks?) and much more stable, Standing up in it is no problem if necessary, at least in the lake.
    This is a 4km long hydro electric lake, very steep sided, usually has a breeze bowing down it's length though of course tempestuous and prone to be a bit gusty. I am always the only sailboat on a lake of paddle boarders kayaks and inflatables. It's good small boat daysailing and great swimming and I can escape the ^$^% beach. People loved the bot though, Probably partly the novelty factor though.






    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-28-2022 at 01:46 AM.

  33. #173
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Looks great! I think this boat picked the right person to follow home.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  34. #174
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    479

    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Very pretty! Nice job.

  35. #175
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    479

    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Regarding your key story - I will share with you some sage advice or life lesson from my mother. We call it "Shirley's Rule": when you have lost something and have gone to ten different places in the house boat garage (or state park) and you have basically been tearing places up in a panic Go Back to the first place you looked and do a thorough, complete (like in this case all pockets) and calm look and 9 out of ten times you will find the missing item. We have found it a pretty consistent thing.

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