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Thread: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

  1. #106
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Transferring the waterline (However you lay it out) onto the bottom edge of the plank is the tricky bit...
    Along the face of the plank is easy.
    (If you don't do that, mark and mask those wee triangles, the waterline (seen from about a foot above) looks like an edge of saw teeth)

  2. #107
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Nothing too exciting to report as I'm in the middle of a move. Landlord uses the seaside love palace for the summer, unusual lease. Tomorrow in the freshly forecast wind and rain I haul out the 20' Eel inspired canoe yawl I've been borrowing from my friend.

    Both coats of bottom primer on and waterline marked out better this time.
    Got the bottom paint off the rudder and daggerboard and have them primed too.
    Still have to do more sanding on the transom, then paint ,paint, finish and flip
    Starting on a mess of locust cleats. Going for slightly lower profile (1/4" less) than the originals which are a little on the large size. Also adding a bit more of a foot to the cleats, makes me feel better.


  3. #108
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I think I made a few hundred wee triangles of masking tape, everyone different, to mask the waterline on my lapstrake boat.
    I just cut in by eye, having masked the plank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post

    Thoise cleats look much better, proper job.

  4. #109
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Weeeeell I have six cleats roughed out and ready for final sanding etc.
    I was originally going to make 4 and reuse the originals and I might still do but on 2 of them the grain orientation wasn't quite how I wanted so i made a couple more for kicks.
    I also have the transom sanded to the point where the dark stains from flaking varnish and the light shadow of the old name are no longer evident. Looks good.
    I also put 2 coats of red brightsides on the bottom... It is probably the worst finish I've ever achieved. It's covering but looks kind of nasty close up. I think if I was to paint a narrow planked lapstrake boat with many rubbing strakes on the bottom in the future I would go with a cheaper deck enamel where it wouldn't be so expensive and I wouldn't be used to getting/expecting great results.

    I have achieved very good results with glass boats and with my shellback dinghy using brightsides, as for the most part I could use a roller and roll and tip. Works great. However for the #130 for most of it I couldn't use a roller and it almost didn't seem worth it for the 2 strakes I could kind of use it on, though I should've.
    I used the 333 brushing thinner in the right proportions but still got a very 'textured' surface
    I primed before, sanded between coats as suggested (I'm usually pretty good at this stuff I've refinished a few boats and a bunch of guitars, amps etc.) I guess I just wasn't very good about using the brush with it (I've done scads of house and interior painting too). Streaky if applied too thin and then drippy if applied too thick.

    It was hard to find the right compromise that the roller naturally achieves. I am not normally someone who has drips in their paint. Embarrassing. Also in the 2nd coat the wind picked up and dropped some debris into my paint tray. I tried to pick it out and it disintegrated..yay! I only had the one quart and didn't want to buy another. I am not aiming or expecting perfection. At this point I would settle for not horrible! At least most of it is underwater, yeesh! I did try to sand out a couple runs/drapes but perhaps after 24 hours in warm weather it was too soon because the paint I put on top, wrinkled over the old sanded run/drape. yeeha! Looks okay from a safe distance I guess, At least it's covered.

    Anyway I plan to use a little roller exclusively on the topsides (except for the necessary cutting in)

    Lesson learned.


  5. #110
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Some progress on paint , weather permitting. Right now she's hiding from the rain under her tent.
    The black (I know it's not ideal, might see how it goes this year. still a chance to change to a lighter topsides colour) is going on nicer. Going with 3 coats and able to roll and tip it, though avoiding runs on the edges the thinner planks is challenging. One more coat to go of black. I figure I'll clean up the red 'bottom' paint next season when I can afford to buy another quart of brightsides. Gluing up the wider sternsheets planks and looking forward to getting her flipped over, for potential sailing and working on the fun stuff. Adding cleats, stern sheets, floorboards, rigging tweaking.

    Regarding brightwork finishes, I was going to use Dalys on the floorboards.
    I have some interlude 'original spar varnish from previously that I was considering using on the brightwork (rub rails and transom for sure) but was also considering other/easier options, like Dalys teak oil for the rest of the brightwork. Though I know epiphanes is good I probably won't use it, as a year and a half ago I sold the 2 quarts I had for a discount and will feel like a ding dong buying more at full price! Also $$ is getting tight. I do have some of cetol, natural teak and the gloss stuff. Though I know it can be good too I'm not as keen on the opaquey/orangey look. I'd appreciate suggestions.



  6. #111
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Looks beautiful!

  7. #112
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Take a peek at Gib Etheridge's big dory thread (anybody know how he's doing?): http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...y-build/page14. Post 456 shows what you can do with Cetol. He details earlier on in the thread how he got this finish, but I think it was the gloss Cetol with a gentle scrubdown with a scotchbrite pad.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I'll check that out. I know there's newer less orange iterations of cetol (what's with the site continually making Cetol into 'retool' ?!! Have to check my autocorrect settings..HATE IT!)

    I'm looking to turn the boat over in a couple days.
    Some more progress. Last coat of topside paint on, looks decent. A little cutting in/cleanup to do on the waterline but otherwise done. Not by any chance perfect but it looks snazzy from a safe distance and the wood has a protective coating.
    If anyone gets closer I'll clock them with a boathook.

    On to the transom now and maybe the underside and outer face of the rub rails. I want to get some coats on the outside prior to flipping.

    The transom sanded up well.
    There's a little divot(maybe an original worm hole or other flaw in the wood) that I'll probably fill, about an inch long on the starboard side. I have some Famowood. I could use epoxy and 407, (it's brown) but I don't want to get epoxy on the surrounding wood, Wood dust and epoxy will always be darker. Maybe I'll glue a little piece of similar mahogany in with titebond 3 and not worry about grain orientation so much. Just want to make it level as divots collect finish when painting and then you get a drip.
    Overall pleased to have the hull work done adequately. After I get the transom done I could theoretically go sailing with some makeshift floorboards and stern sheets while I make the proper ones. Maybe we'll even get some decent weather?




  9. #114
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I use "Flagship Varnish" it is more money but has something like 7 times the UV inhibitors. Lasts noticeably longer
    On the floorboards and interior I Use DO#1, best oil ever.

  10. #115
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I was pleased to discover that my rub rails are purple heart, though it can be splintery, it is attractive and hard as nails. Nice to see something other than the ubiquitous white oak/teak/mahogany though those are all fine and attractive woods.
    Just making sure the bottom and face of both are scraped sanded and have a few coats of varnish along with the transom before I flip her over for the fun stuff. I also immobilized some surface splits with epoxy. I might give the face of them more sanding when she's right side up.
    Touched up the waterline. Transom has 3 coats now.

    Got my silicon bronze fasteners for the floorboards and stern sheets for free as the cave-dwelling knuckle dragging warehouse guy at the fastener place was unbelievably rude after I greeted him nicely with a very simple request. Mocked me loudly in front of another customer saying I was too cheap to buy the bronze previously . I had bought SS fasteners as they came in 5/8" but I was back to buy the more expensive 1/2' bronze ones as a test at home showed they held as well and they looked nicer in the cedar.

    Sometimes I'm not willing to swallow it , which necessitated a complaint to a very nice and human manager in the office. Nice to know some people still care. I was still going to pay, no problem, but the manager insisted. Stand up guy! Apparently they are having trouble keeping new employees in the warehouse. I wonder why?...

    Looking forward to getting on with the fun stuff

  11. #116
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Please paint out that green triangle on the sear strake. Unseamanlike over thinking it. KISS, always KISS.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #117
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Please paint out that green triangle on the sear strake. Unseamanlike over thinking it. KISS, always KISS.

    Haha! I'm assuming you mean right at the bow. It was there when I got the boat, not my addition. I will admit to not knowing any better though.

    It's black like the rest of the topsides and as the finish on the sheer strake was actually in 99% useable condition I opted not to scrape that bit off and just put a couple coats on top so the okay new black would all match. After I get a 2nd coat on the rub rail I will probably give the sheer strake a light sand and give it a coat or two of clear as well.

    Scraping the varnish off the red cedar just seems to bruise/dent/compress it (I tried a tiny section) Then I would be refinishing the entire thing or it would look more patchy and in my opinion , worse.

    For now, maybe that can be next years project, like doing a way better job on the %^$#%$^#& faux bottom paint.

    I do like how strongly you feel about it though, and I'm not kidding at all.

  13. #118
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Rightsize up at last, Special thanks to my sister. Proper white trash boat supports made of old tires, planks fenders and my old dinghy dolly..which came in handy.
    Hanging out with the Shellback which saw lake service today. Delving back into the 12-string

    Starting work on the topside brightwork and reinstalling rudder and stem hardware.
    Looking at it like this I agree the triangles look goofy.Didn't notice them looking goofy before. I guess there were bigger problems then.

    Holding off on finishing the floorboards and stern sheets, which are awaiting cutting out, sanding fishing and assembling...why?
    because when I sent the seller a picture of the boat to let him know it was being cared for he told me the floorboards etc. had been found.
    This after I was assured they never existed (I knew they had) but I was discouraged from poking around for them and the actual seller wasn't on location.

    Awaiting when they might be available, where (could be on an island!) and what shape there in....and then what the seller wants for them as I got a discount for the missing parts.
    It has been 6 weeks and I have all that tight grained quartersawn old growth cedar milled up. Kind of a shame really. Basically unobtanium
    Might not be worth it. However maybe there's the little foredeck or other cool parts. We'll see



  14. #119
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    geeeeeze, dat bote turnin out jusfine

  15. #120
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    A
    Some progress and a question.
    Gunwales, oarlocks, breasthook, mast partners and transom top and inside sanded and ready for first coats of varnish. These were the worst and most visible areas so I thought I'd do them first and attend to the rest at my leisure and enjoy some sailing. The purple heart outwales and rub rail, spruce sheer strake(I think) and teak inwale with the mahogany oarlocks and transoms should look smashing finished.

    Floorboards finally rough cut , and test fit. A bit of sanding and slight rounding off of pointy bits, then steam bending straps, finishing and fastening.

    I was working on my sail and am going to cut the cloth to install the first reef patches and sadly lacking luff reenforcement.

    My question is , I have the chance to pick up an international 12' lugsail, with boom and yard( but not the mast as it's been altered too much in heavy duty mechanical ways). Maybe sail cover too. oars if I'm lucky for a decent deal(sub $300 maybe even less)
    This sail is considerable larger than the rig on the Gartside 130 at 100 Square feet vs the 130's 68 square feet.
    The international 12 is also about 50 lbs heavier than the 130. Other wise the same length and slightly narrower beam.
    Layout is very similar yard is a similar length but the internationals boom is a good 3' longer.
    It's also more of a traditional lugsail shape with a longer boom, no roach or battens. About the same height but more spread out. It has reef already.
    Worth it for fun?
    I figure it could be cut down some if needed

    Gartside

    international

  16. #121
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I like trying different rigs in small boats, and I use ballast when it helps. A few gallon water bottles or a shot bag can make a big difference. I've also used a small shopping bag of wet beach sand effectively. I recently started using a 65sf sprit in my Shellback, which was designed for a 55sf lug. If there are reefs in the bigger sail, you can still use it when it breezes on. I guess I should add that I've been sailing various dinghies, canoes and kayaks for decades, and that at 6'5" and 230# I have a lot of natural ballast.

  17. #122
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I like trying different rigs in small boats, and I use ballast when it helps. A few gallon water bottles or a shot bag can make a big difference. I've also used a small shopping bag of wet beach sand effectively. I recently started using a 65sf sprit in my Shellback, which was designed for a 55sf lug. If there are reefs in the bigger sail, you can still use it when it breezes on. I guess I should add that I've been sailing various dinghies, canoes and kayaks for decades, and that at 6'5" and 230# I have a lot of natural ballast.
    Full circle ! I commented on your post on the Facebook site as I added various foresails to my Shellback upping it from 56 to around 75 sq feet I think.

    Your new rig looks good!

    I have only about a decade experience as I started late, but it's been pretty involved, however I provide less ballast, being a good 8" and 60 lbs smallebr />
    Looking at the two pictures atop on another in my previous post I can see how the COE on the International is moved forwards by the mast position and it's apparent lack of rake

  18. #123
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Thanks! I'll be interested to see if this works out. I'm enjoying this thread.

  19. #124
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Answered my own question by checking out said rig in person. Lovely looking spars but oblong shaped and only about 1' thick side to side for the entire length. They noticeably sagged when sitting on my 4x4 utility trailer. or when lifted. I imagine the outhaul would probably bend the spar rather than tighten the sail. Also they had big eye lags going into then top to bottom at various points undoubtedly rendering them even weaker. The clew attachment was a huge galvanized thick pipe affair probably 10" long that must've weighed as much as the entire spar. Overbuilt and under built!
    Sail looked okay but the dimensions were off even for an international 12. 10' foot 3' luff (!!) 12/5' head and a 17' leech
    Though if buying just the sail as I wouldn't use the floppy spars but wasn't sure if it could've been cut down into something I could use at all.

  20. #125
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I would avoid floppy spars - you need something that will help retain a good sail shape :-) You could make your own - it's great fun as long as you follow the method.

    Regards Neil

  21. #126
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    THat's what I thought, It seems as soon as there was pressure on the sail, the spars would be flexing like mad., One for light airs but anything else would be dodgy.
    I thought of asking the fellow to just buy the sail but the shape was just too different and I have enough projects on this boat
    Ss we speak I'm;
    -Finishing the brightwork
    -Finishing the floorboards
    -Starting on cutting out the sternsheets
    - Repairing and adding a reef to my current sail
    Looking to be finished Saturday or Sunday, maybe go sailing Monday weather permitting

  22. #127
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I finally git around to my sternsheets
    Have a nice curve mapped onto the template. I'm a little stuck on one detail.
    These are removable
    The plans have about 1/4" gaps between the planks going front to back
    I decided to have 4 planks with 1/4" gaps between them, Likely gaps on the sides too.
    Strapped together underneath

    I was worried that with the gaps on the forward edge that lines could get caught in the gaps.
    There was a Roger bRAnes video where s simiaklr thing led to him capsizing.

    I thought about gluing 2 inch long pieces to the front edge of the planks to fill the forward edge of the gaps and or making the planks fit right together and cutting the gaps out from the back..which frankly seems like a PITA as I don't have access to a table saw. I could do it by hand and clean it up.

    Am I being a %$#^&%$ hairsplitter? Mid boom sheeting. My main sheet bridle is on the middle thwart so not at the back anyway?

    Initial option



    2nd option

    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-19-2022 at 11:01 PM.

  23. #128
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Center of boom sheeting, or will there be a yoke at the aft end? Could be a lot of line around on a wild gybe downwind? I seldom worry about the lead line on a mainsheet, but the bight going to a block at the end can get pretty wild I've caught 'em on tillers, ends of oars, paddles, and various portions of my own anatomy at times

  24. #129
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    The plan of the sternsheets shows all the boards splayed.
    The stock that you have is obviously parallel but by gluing the triangular offcut from the outer boards onto the edge of those inner boards, the necessary width could be achieved to form the required
    splay dimensions.

    IMG-2588.jpg

    The gap between the boards could then be reduced, even a 1/16 " gap is enough to highlight a shadow line as in the image above.
    An edge bead would set things off, matching the detail along the bottom edge of the stringer and inwhale of your dinghy, which is coming up very nicely.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Good point, I'm not sure why I missed that. I might have enough width altogether to make up for that oversight, I will check. Thanks

  26. #131
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    You can leave gaps between the boards to make the timber go further, and don't but the stern sheets tight up against the transom. In the hopefully unlikely event that bilge water rushes aft, you need to allow it to vent when it hits the transom.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #132
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    An alternative suggestion:if you glue the segments together,you could run a router along the joint to crate a slot with rounded ends.You don't have to glue every part of the surface as a small piece at each end will be enough to lose the gaping maw that can swallow a line.In fact if it were my boat I would just glue a sliver to the end of the shorter piece to take away the acute angle and leave the other side free from glue.It would be easier to get paint or varnish into the gap that way.

  28. #133
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Always listen to your mother. I was laying this out on my indulgent parent's back porch, where my boat lives whilst being repaired.
    I asked my mother, (who of course is a very intelligent mother of 7 with a strong sewing and artististic background) and she said "I would take it out of the middle"

    I thought for a bit and tried it and I think it's a very good idea. I can well afford to loose width at the narrow end of my boards but not the wide end.
    The grain will kind of orientate with the fanning out but it's very fine grain for the most part and there will be a bit of a V down the centre, which might not look bad
    I tried a 2" over lap at the middle giving me about 1" fanning in for the join between the outer boards and the middle ones.
    Which is a little less than half of the angle the outboards have with the side benches...if that all makes sense.
    I would of course cut it out of both centre boards
    My inclination now is to glue the two middle boards together at what would be the new seam and just have the three parts
    Should I go for a little more fanning? With a 2" overlap my centre board would be 9" wide at the narrow end and 11" wide at the fat end
    Probably a slightly more noticeable 2.5-3" over lap would be better.
    Ignore the centre line it is just there to give some idea of square

  29. #134
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Maybe cut a few patterns out of cardboard and lay them in to get an idea of the proportions.
    Also, although it's a little more work, you can remove timber off both sides, if the grain orientation is a concern.
    Last edited by Mike1902; 07-21-2022 at 03:10 PM.
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  30. #135
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    OKay Herę it is the way you suggested. Kind of splits the difference on grain orientation I guess.
    I did a lightly larger amount of fanning.
    I already have a cardboard pattern. I will either draw out the new orientation on it and or make another.

  31. #136
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Cardboard template looks good in situ however the sun through the trees above makes lovely dappled shadows making it impossible to see any definition in a photo. Might widen the fanning a little more but I think this will work and I will probably take it off the sides as suggested. thanks very much , this looks way better and will ultimately make the whole thing simpler which of course = better.

  32. #137
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    This setout method may or may not help in your situation (stock widths being a factor) but here it is anyway.
    IMG-7813.jpg

    Measure the overall width of your intended seating at the transom, then divide by the number of boards being used.
    Establish the maximum width at the forward end. Draw lines from these points back to the outside points at the transom.
    Draw a line athwartships at the deepest point of the concave or the top outside points of the leading edge perpendicular to the centre line. Divide the athwartships line by the same number of boards.
    Drawing lines through these points will indicate each board shape.
    Gaps between boards can be adjusted as necessary.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Last edited by Mike1902; 07-21-2022 at 06:23 PM.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

  33. #138
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Whew Good thing you're here!
    I can't do that with 4 boards as my centre boards are too narrow , however I can do it with 3 if I fudge the numbers a little. I don't have any back up lumber.
    Despite having a woodworking carpentry background I am somehow not jumping on these straightforward and practical methods. I think it's because of the wooden boat aspect, it turns off my brain!
    Thanks very much
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-21-2022 at 07:04 PM.

  34. #139
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Is it absolutely necessary to have gaps between the removable stern sheets?
    I think there's 1/4" gaps on the plans. Or at least that's what it looks like
    I was going to round over the corners some to make things smooth.
    Seems like water could run off the back or front of the boards
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-21-2022 at 08:55 PM.

  35. #140
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Is it absolutely necessary to have gaps between the removable stern sheets?
    I think there's 1/4" gaps on the plans. Or at least that's what it looks like
    I was going to round over the corners some to make things smooth.
    Seems like water could run off the back or front of the boards
    Seems like a good place for the end of the mainsheet to catch just when you want it running free. Should be fun!

    Tom
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