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Thread: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

  1. #1
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    Default A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    A Paul Gartside #130 followed me home today. It was somewhat of an epic journey with a 2 month preamble.
    (To skip the preamp go to post 2 for some boat pictures, there is some boat info near the bottom of the preamble)
    This Gartside appeared on the local craigslist. Perhaps some of you saw it. I contacted the buyer a day after it appeared and offered him a modest offer on site unseen basis. He said my offer was fair but a little low. Then I waited, and waited. The ad was cute because it said the boat needed 'anti-fowling' ..to guard against sea fowl I guess, like ducks!
    Also it was never renewed, The seller was obviously very busy and didn't have time to tend to it. He also didn't live on the Island where the boat was located so there were logistic difficulties. So I waited and waited. We shared some communications and I got little dribbles of informations and a couple more pictures. I contacted Paul Gartside and got his opinion of the pictures. He said it looked good with nice plank lines and he didn't see any major problems.
    It was made at the Silva Bay boat school 20-21 years ago (I found all this out later, prior to actually buying) Its as student built boat and a year after it was made the student who owned it sold it to the grandfather of the present owner. He loved it, and took good care of it , however he didn't have much time to sail it and he was older, so it spent a lot of time on a small dock 8' above the sea with a custom canvas cover on it. In the past few years the grandfather had not been able to sail it at all and he passed on last June. Then it was moved to the lawn where it was stored upside about 2' off the ground on blocks with the bottom warped up.

    My friend Martin who generously lends me his beautiful Eel inspired canoe yawl 'Pilgrim's Wake' hooked me up with his naval architect friend (a forum member here, I'll let him chime in if he wants to) He gave me his opinion of the pictures and also hooked me up with a former school director, who got information from a former instructor, which is where a lot of the above information came from. I thought one of the pictures depicting the stem showed what looked to be rot, I shared the picture, which gave all of us some concerns regarding the stem in general.
    45 days after the ad was posted, the very day the ad was taken down by craigslist. the seller accepted my offer. I received the above information about 2 days later which gave me the willies. We set a date to see the boat (It was on Gabriola Island not far from where it was built.)
    I got up extra early to make the most of the day and ensure a space on the ferry (two ferries to Gabriola actually)
    I loaded up my car and on closing the drivers door to adjust something I inadvertently closed it on the reinforced corner of the tarp I keep on it, resulting in this:


    I was already a bit trepidatious about the whole jaunt...The ferries are very expensive $200 plus and I was worried about the boats condition so this setback threw me for a couple hours but I rallied and hopped the 1pm ferry, trailer in tow. The trailer is a break back trailer that I shortened by drilling a new pivot hole and moving the winch. main my entire rig 19' 11" . 1" under the 20' over-sized limit. I took a ferry to Nanaimo on Vancouver Island and then across Nanaimo to catch the Gabriola ferry, It was a breezy trip without a driver's side window...
    The Gabriola Ferry

    Then drove all the way to the other end of Gabriola , which like all the gulf islands is quite idyllic and beautiful.
    The extreme lumpy, rutted and long driveway to the seller's insanely beautiful property


    Spent a bunch of time time checking the boat out and hunting down gear. The boat, to my inexperienced eyes, looked pretty good and humorously the 'stem rot' turned out to be a trick of the light in the photograph ,but sadly the floorboard and removable rear seats were nowhere to be found. Happily this resulted in a 20% discount.
    The cream coloured sail, spars, rudder , centreboard and beautiful 9' oars looked like they'd barely been used ever.
    The hull looked good and didn't seem to have any soft spots though some of the copper fastener holes had lost their putty(?) plugs (possible issue) There was some chips and flakes in the black topsides and much fading of the bottom paint. I'm not sure why this boat had bottom paint as it never lived in the water so it seems redundant.
    I spent a bunch of time levelling out my trailer rollers so that the keel would rest on them and be lightly supported upright by the bunks, Lashed everything in and down and set off back down the very lumpy little driveway, via the gravel road and finally back onto the other road which traverses the north side of the Island. Really a beautiful drive. Had to stop for a deer and some HUGE turkeys at a couple points. I managed to stop by the property of this nice lady who owns 'Goldeneye' the #1 Greg Foster tent sailor and have a brief look at her boat but wasn't able to hook up with her to get information in person.
    Here I am waiting for the ferry back #130 in tow. Sadly I am now 2' over the 20' limit! So paying little more on the ferry back to Vancouver.

    i visited with my brother overnight at his new place in Nanaimo (this was my backup rational for the trip and long overdue)
    Then off in the morning back to Vancouver after accidentally circumnavigating Nanaimo
    Here I am hanging out with the big boys in the belly of the ferry
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-26-2022 at 09:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Here she is here in all her unrestored glory. 12'1" long and 5' wide at the centre thwart.
    Ignore any rigging gaffs, I just put her together quickly to look at her rigged. There seems to be some sort of traveller missing from one of the main sheet blocks which would ride on the bridle and I didn't spend a lot of time figuring out the downhill configuration. Also there is leathering for the mast but none on the thwart, which I will likely remedy. There was a strange tube of doubled up carpet so I used it for now.

    I forgot to mention that I also found out from the former instructor that the previous owner had also had very mast lengthened 3' from the original 11' for extra headroom. It is now 14' long! To me this seems like a strange thing to do but I guess it could be provide better light air performance and lowering it could kind of be a first reef. If all goes well I will be adding reef point to the sail.The mast also looks more raked than I remember the sail plan being.
    The hull feels good as does the keel stem and stern. I want to remove the bottom paint. The inside paint looks like I could just leave it but the brightwork definitely needs refinishing. Which reminds me I need to contact the previous owner and ask him if knows what was used on it. I would guess epiphanes but I'm not sure. The spars seem to be finished matt and or just oiled.
    the frames inside all look and feel good. A couple have some longitudinal and slightly diagonal cracking but they don't seem in anyway soft. There doesn't seem to be any cracking in the planks. the odd line that could be a fine crack but under the paint from prior to it being painted at some point. No light showing through anywhere the joints look very tight everywhere

    The outside of the hull is where I need some advice if at all possible. Paul Gartside told me black was not a great topsides colour for a boat that would see a fair bit of sun. Of course it looks very cool and traditional but I don't want to mess up the boat. It is cooler here than farther south but we get our share of sun. I feel the bottom paint is unnecessary but a red paint for looks would be fine.
    Some but not all the fasteners have lost their putty(?) not tonnes but some, maybe 5%
    My questions are:

    -What sort of putty/substance does one use to fair the fastener holes?

    - Should I remove the bottom paint?

    -If so to remove it do I sand it to the wood(carefully) to repaint?

    - Black topsides, keep the black? Bad? and when I repaint do I need to remove all the old stuff? If seems to be about 90% good or more. Can I give it a good sanding for adhesions and paint over? Bad?

    - Should I get the boat wet in the salt before I prep and paint? Somewhere I thought I read that painting a dried out wooden boat is a bad idea.

    -Brightwork- sand away entirely and redcoat. I was thinking of using an Interlux product (which I have a new can of). I am not adverse to the new clearer cetol.

    Thanks in advance for any help

    Finally some boat pictures:





    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-31-2022 at 12:04 AM. Reason: insanity

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    These should've been first but here are the pictures from the original ad
    This first one of the hull inverted is the one that really caught my eye for some reason. Quite elegant looking, especially the transition to the stern and the plumb bow


    the nefarious stem picture..not I circled what I thought was rot..it actually has a metal band there with a bit of black paint..oops


    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-26-2022 at 09:32 PM.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Sweet! Looks like a fun project!

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Very nice. Traditional lapstrake and not glued lap? It'll be interesting to see if the laps are tight.
    Good luck with her! She looks to be in great shape for a 20 year old boat. A bit of paint and varnish and you're good to go.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Very nice. Traditional lapstrake and not glued lap? It'll be interesting to see if the laps are tight.
    Good luck with her! She looks to be in great shape for a 20 year old boat. A bit of paint and varnish and you're good to go.
    Yes, traditional copper fastened clinker/lapstrake designed for the Silva Bay school by Paul Gartside for teaching people traditional clinker construction. looks like somebody did a good job. the seams look super tight.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Score!!!

    Read this:
    https://www.westsystem.com/instructi...asics/fairing/

    I like it black, There is nothing remotely like California sun up there...
    It will be a bit of work taking a black boat to white. A good winter project, strip it prime it, fair it and paint it white, er a little off white if it was mine. (Interlux Hatteras white is nice)

    You want a bottom paint suitable for trailering,
    or if it is not going to be in the water more than a week or so, you don't need bottom paint at all. but a seperate color below the waterline is a nice touch.
    Looks to me like you could go sailing next week, or as soon as you can get the window fixed in your car!
    (I don't like the boom that high. 3 feet, really? A snug rig is a good thing. Use that extra bit of mast to set a wee topsail in light air)

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I hope you have access to some kids. That’s a perfect Swallows And Amazons boat!

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Score!!!

    Read this:
    https://www.westsystem.com/instructi...asics/fairing/

    I like it black, There is nothing remotely like California sun up there...
    It will be a bit of work taking a black boat to white. A good winter project, strip it prime it, fair it and paint it white, er a little off white if it was mine. (Interlux Hatteras white is nice)

    You want a bottom paint suitable for trailering,
    or if it is not going to be in the water more than a week or so, you don't need bottom paint at all. but a seperate color below the waterline is a nice touch.
    Looks to me like you could go sailing next week, or as soon as you can get the window fixed in your car!
    (I don't like the boom that high. 3 feet, really? A snug rig is a good thing. Use that extra bit of mast to set a wee topsail in light air)
    Thanks for the article

    I like it black too. A lot actually.
    I thought the mast lengthening was a dubious thing myself. Wouldn't it totally change the centre of effort and make it much more tender to have the rig pulled up that high? I could see changing it a smallish amount but 3' is a lot and it's more weight up top.
    I didn't even pull it up all the way because it looked wrong.

    I do have a gallon of Micron somewhere which I could use for the bottom. I really like the idea of a topsail. I could do a jackyard topsail. I have some terrylene left over from making jibs for my Shellback dinghy. I'd need more belaying pins, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, My brother likes turning them.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    There were two pictures of the boat on the water in the ad
    This one I believe is pre mast lengthening


    And this one looks post mast lengthening


    interestingly he has his downhaul rigged similarly to what I did as the bronze attachment loop is on the starboard side. That has the downhaul going around the mast which I guess would act like a parrel but also seems unusual. THere's also a new plastic fairlead added to the boom further forward from what I believe might've been the original downhaul attachment point. There would at least have to be leathering or a whipping there. Fun to sort this stuff out. I'd like to have a rig like Roger Barnes has and have the downhaul led aft so you can adjust it on the fly.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    The boom does look a little low in the first to be comfortable, but there is also quite a bit of room on the mast for it to be a bit higher (which probably would have been plenty). The second looks all wrong!
    Daniel

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I wouldn't mind a higher boom on most dinghies. I'm 6'5" and not as flexible as I used to be. I would sail it before changing the rig. That color on the mast and oars might be an opaque stain finish. I wouldn't worry about the black unless it already caused a problem. I had a dark green yawl, cedar on oak. It stayed tight.
    Nice boat!

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Kudos for towing with a Smart.I didn't know it was possible and we have proof here that it works-nice job and the boat looks like fun.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Kudos for towing with a Smart.I didn't know it was possible and we have proof here that it works-nice job and the boat looks like fun.

    I actually think it's a lot more common in Europe and the UK than here. People actually tow little caravans with them. It's hilarious. They do have regular car sized brakes. Mine is a diesel so practically a truck... A truck with a .8 litre 3 cylinder engine. They say that you don't want to tow more than 600 lbs. I have been towing my shellback dinghy with it for quite a while now. I have a little 4x4 utility trailer too that I use for firewood. Like any trailering, you just take it easy, think ahead and give yourself room. The 130 is about 180 lbs and the shellback is about 100 lbs. My trailer weighs around 170.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    I wouldn't mind a higher boom on most dinghies. I'm 6'5" and not as flexible as I used to be.
    No boom at all might be an option to consider. Have you tried a boomless rig, like a standing lugsail?

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I have sailed without a boom, I didn't like it. When I first bought my 19' dory skiff, the main was a boomless spritsail. I made a boom after trying it. Without a boom there is much more pull on the sheet, and poor shape off the wind.
    Thanks for the suggestion!

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I have a couple questions regarding a couple things on my to do list

    My list of things to do is (in rough order of importance via going sailing NOW):

    - Build floorboards and stern sheets (This one I have figured out and I'm getting started on)

    - Sand and Re-finish brightwork particularly transom, rub rails and outwales

    - A bit of rigging stuff

    - Remove remaining nasty powdery ablative paint

    - Scrape and sand topside paint (It looks quite good so basically remove loose stuff and sand.)

    - Fair fastener holes and paint chips etc. with 3M marine mastic putty (P Gartside recommended)

    - Paint bottom, likely with micron (which I already have a gallon of) or just red paint
    I don't feel this boat really needs bottom paint and certainly not an ablative

    - Paint topsides

    - Make 4 more locust cleats for the stern quarters and both sides of the bow (fun!) to be though bolt mounted inboard on the inwales


    My questions are largely involving the removal of the ablative and painting. I have tarps, a good palm sander, hazmat suits, gloves, a full face respirator etc.

    For a small boat is sanding a decent option for ablative removal? and do I need to take it back to the wood? (these are quite thin red cedar planks so caution will be necessary if that was the case)

    Also the topside paint, Do I need to wood it out or just as above, remove the loose stuff and give it a good sand for adhesion, fair fastener holes, chips etc and paint?

    Which brings me to my other concern, I don't really know what was used on the topsides as far as paint goes. Likely good quality stuff as the PO was well off and he was supposedly meticulous about maintenance.
    Any concerns or paint recommendations. I've used Interlux brightsides a lot successfully in the past.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Fine Paints of Europe is terrific...and very easy handling. As they would say at Jensen Motorboat, "Put your worst painter on it."
    https://finepaintsofeurope.com/

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    I actually think it's a lot more common in Europe and the UK than here. People actually tow little caravans with them. It's hilarious. They do have regular car sized brakes. Mine is a diesel so practically a truck... A truck with a .8 litre 3 cylinder engine. They say that you don't want to tow more than 600 lbs. I have been towing my shellback dinghy with it for quite a while now. I have a little 4x4 utility trailer too that I use for firewood. Like any trailering, you just take it easy, think ahead and give yourself room. The 130 is about 180 lbs and the shellback is about 100 lbs. My trailer weighs around 170.
    Living here and travelling around Europe,I have yet to see a Smart towing.I have no doubt that they have sufficient power for a 12 foot boat and you may be setting a good example for those who "need" a massive pickup to move a modest open boat.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Ah my mistake then. Most of the pictures I've seen of them towing have been from Europe, on the Canadian Smart Car forum. There are example here but few and far between and I've never seen one in person either. You can buy a hitch bar made for a Smart though.

    I agree, people think they need the hugest trucks to tow small loads, especially here where people seem to think you need a huge truck just to go out for coffee, never mind towing or using it as a truck.

    Any help with the above bottom paint removal and paint questions would be hugely appreciated.

    I was looking to see if Fine paints of Europe was available locally and sadly not,...though somebody should point out to them that Canada is in no way a state of the USA, which is how they have us listed. Perhaps I will.
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-28-2022 at 04:24 PM.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    I was looking to see if Fine paints of Europe was available locally and sadly not,...though somebody should point out to them that Canada is in no way a state of the USA, which is how they have us listed.
    You didn't get the annexation notice? Your federal taxes will be due on April 15, 2023.

    Great boat--thanks for posting this thread. Has Paul Gartside drawn any boats that aren't beautiful? If so, I haven't seen them.

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Aiiieeee! Do I have to pay both Governments?

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    No. Just us. Send me a PM and I'll give you the address to mail the check.

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Sure thing! However with the exchange rate and my income I'll probably be sending you about 5$ or you might even be sending me a cheque.

    So I hope this doesn't open a can of worms. I was reading paint opinions and information on forums and there's a lot of differing information.

    I want to paint my topsides gloss black and my bottom (of my boat) red or a brick colour. Not bottom paint but red because I think it looks smart. I might decide to go for one colour however for ease.

    For the top sides I'll be scraping a bit, fairing and light sanding. For the bottom I'll have to remove the remaining ablative (yay!) , fair, light sand and then paint. I don't know what's underneath the ablative other than red cedar, I guess I'll find out.

    This boat won't be living in the water. I've only painted glass boats. Is there a big difference for choice of coatings on wood. Most of my experience has been with brightsides and I can do a decent job with it. However if there are cheaper alternatives that work as well I'm happy to find out
    Thanks

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Painting wood isn’t all that much different than ‘glass. Solid base and a good primer should do it. Can you get Marshall’s Cove up there? I’m fond of their “Junk Red”. I left my no-bottom paint tender in for a week and found a lot of stuff already adhered on and growing. Something to consider
    Steve

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post

    I was looking to see if Fine paints of Europe was available locally and sadly not,...though somebody should point out to them that Canada is in no way a state of the USA, which is how they have us listed. Perhaps I will.
    Surprising. I wonder if it is possible to import it. It really is a terrific paint.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Kirby's paints are great.
    Not sure about getting them in Canada... Jamestown distributors sells them also...

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Kudos for towing with a Smart.I didn't know it was possible and we have proof here that it works-nice job and the boat looks like fun.
    Nice find you have there Toxophilite! You're more courageous than I can lay claim to towing that rig behind a SMART, yet with my MINI I'm not far behind with the Waterlust I launched late last year! (Major worry was rear overhang so I made up a taillight rig that hangs off the rudder pintle, plugs into trailer harness so there's brake lights as far aft as possible and visible from the sides!!)

    Glad that Gartside's found a new home, new owner more inclined to use her as originally intended as well as keep her properly cared for.
    When the people wanted the Constitution amended, it was amended. When the elites wanted the Constitution amended, but the people did not, that is called democracy."

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by sp_clark View Post
    Nice find you have there Toxophilite! You're more courageous than I can lay claim to towing that rig behind a SMART, yet with my MINI I'm not far behind with the Waterlust I launched late last year!
    Hey, sorry for the drift--but can we expect a thread and photos on your Waterlust anytime soon?

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Interlux brightsides is good paint

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Antifowling is a protective coating to prevent goose barnacles.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Truly
    Hey for filling fastener holes and small fairing jobs Paul Gartside said he used 3M marine mastic putty.
    I can find 3M premium marine filler, but annoyingly not locally unless I want to buy a $100 can. I'm thinking a smallish can would probably do. However I am currently SOL locally.
    I guess i'm a little wary of the epoxy options, likely irrationally. West's article says epoxy with lots of microbubble or the low density stuff so it is light and sand-able. However they also suggest wetting out the area with just un-thickened epoxy prior, which would seem to be saturating the wood around the fasteners, which gives me the willies. Is this an irrational fear? And is the wet out step entirely necessary?
    Are there any other cheap and cheerful options that still perform well?
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 05-30-2022 at 02:06 PM.

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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Evercoat makes a half pint marine "filler" like bondo (without talc) that is not expensive #100572
    However, I don't know if it is harder than the wood. If it is harder (and most 2 part fillers are) the problem is when sanded it will tend to leave highs where the filler is.
    The wood sands away, the filler is high a little bump where every screw hole was... Hateful
    I used it on the trim for my house, but never fooled with sanding or leveling it, just troweled it smooth and moved on.


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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Wouldn't West epoxy with micro bubbles be similar? Aren't all the 2 part fairing compounds some sort of epoxy and by there nature harder?

  35. #35
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    This is what I would use

    769CAA29-4EBC-4C39-93C3-048B64EE932E.jpg

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