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Thread: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

  1. #176
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I always leave my car key tucked in the gas cap of the car. If I didn't, I'm sure I'd have dozens of "lost key" stories from sailing trips.

    Tom
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  2. #177
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Good advice! I actually went through the whole boat and all my stuff (backpack, guitar case) very very methodically at least twice, while my girlfriend went through her purse. What I should've done was search my girlfriend's purse myself.
    Sadly my key unlocks my fuel cap cover.

  3. #178
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Up in Gibsons BC cat and house- sitting and dragged the boat with me. I went on a 5 hour 14 nautical mile sail and row adventure around Keats Island. Prior to that I was just sailing back-and-forth to Keats in some good wind, there were little whitecaps, and the boat sailed beautifully and didn’t mind any of it just the odd splash. Very stable, I can stand up if I need to no problem, and upwind I was hitting around 4.5- 4.7 knots. Probably it’s first time in salt water for about 5 years.

    Still sorting out the rig. Several times my mast traveller jammed while hoisting. Had a look at it afterwards and to my eyes it looks like it’s maybe made wrong. The hook sits outside the ring as one would expect but the loop for the halyard is inside the ring. Seems designed to jam.Also the world looks like it’s separated on one side. The other side looks fine. I’m going to try it with just a topsail bend tomorrow if there’s wind. I was going to use the existing Hilliard backwards because the higher it is spliced to the traveller loop. Or I have some brand new quarter inch Polyester three Strand. Strong enough?

    I was also going to try a simpler two-part purchase for the main sheet. I was using a three part but I think it might be a little much. I’ll find out tomorrow if there’s any windD827B4BD-D2D6-4BF7-BE39-43BED6B338E1.jpg
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 07-31-2022 at 12:33 AM.

  4. #179
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I think the ID of your ring is too small. Having a bit of brain fart this morning but I think the "rule of thumb"number is mast OD+ 10%? Somebody here will know.

    The 1/4" 3--strand is probably fine. The big thing is low-to-no stretch in whatever you do use.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  5. #180
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I was almost thinking it was too big. The ring is about 3 1/2 “ inside while the mast is 2 1/2 l. I think what happens is. since the loop and the hook aren’t in line The ring goes up the mast at a slight angle. Combined with the loop extending almost 5/8” into the traveller ring, effectively making the ring a smaller inside diameter (just below 3”) it makes the traveller jam whilst hoisting ( usually quite high up the mast) That’s my theory.FFD957A7-8BFC-40F3-8BC4-A926110F99E5.jpg

  6. #181
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I've come to the conclusion that those mast traveler rings aren't for me. The main advantage is that they hold the yard close to the mast, no matter how many reefs are tied in. That's nice. But solveable with a parrell instead of the ring, for the cost of another line to tie. No big deal.

    I've also found that you need a mast long enough to keep the ring well below the top of the mast. My own mast has the beehole right at the top, so there's not really enough room to use the mast traveler--it gets wonky if you have to haul it right up to the beehole.

    Tom
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  7. #182
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    The halyard ring should be vertically above the hook for the yard strop, like this one from Classic Marine.
    https://www.classic-marine.co.uk/pro...st-travellers/

    With the halyard and yard strop in vertical alignment the traveller ring will not cant to one side or the other and hence not bind.

    Nick

  8. #183
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home


    This is what I used on Kayli Marie. Halyard tied off to the eye with a prussik on the yard to hang off the hook. The ring was eventually wrapped in some fancy rope-work to buffer the wood from the metal, but you can see how loose the overall fit was and it worked great, never jammed. Parrels work too and https://www.storerboatplans.com/cate...lug-rig-setup/ has a bunch ways to rig balanced lugs, they don't use either, just halyard.

    A lot of the fun in these little boats is the ease of making changes. KM was very sensitive about where the yard lined up with the mast at full hoist when rigged as a balance lugger (two sail plans, BL and standing lug sloop) I found out pretty quickly if I had shifted something too far.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  9. #184
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Don't make that ring too small.... by a much bigger diameter than you might think.... My attempt jammed way too easily....too small diameter.

  10. #185
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    BF91AD70-4F47-44BE-9C2C-8A9F8823A11F.jpgI’m pretty sure the culprit was the mast traveller being made wrong. I might see if my welding brother can help me make it right. It’s a good diameter what the hook and loop not being aligned makes it jam.
    Today I went for an excellent five hour sale out to explore these little group of islands dealt with some rather large swelling and chop in the boat had no problem I didn’t even get water in the boat. did some crazy surfing downwind on the last bit of my return leg. Averaged around three knots overall. I’m really impressed by how it handles conditions that would be pretty edgy iny shellback dinghy. This really is a fine boat.

    I used a topsail halyard bend just in front of thr putple heart deadeye, with a makeshift rope parrel and the arrangement worked well. Used the extra mast length to crank the rig up higher a couple times when the breeze moderated.

  11. #186
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    The classic no traveler is the halyard to a block or bee hole lashed to the yard then forward on the side opposite the yard to tie off on the forward end of the yard.
    It has the advantage of being able to pull the yard aft when you lower it.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  12. #187
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Went on another epic sale today to Gambier Island. Surfing downwind 4+ Knots, took us just over an hour (5 knots away)Then some time languishing in the doldrums and rowing to escape the Cambe I had sailed into. Then a very vigourous 2 1/2 hour sail back 4-4.5 knots sometimes banging into chop, with the odd bit if spray over the bow. Had my squirrelfriend along as ballast and with me up on the bench and her sitting beside me it was easy to stay mostly level. Thought of reefing but didnít think I needed to. Used my 14í mast as my light air rig( up) and my first reef ( down.

    I noticed something that gave me pause before I set out ( and of course I went anyway) The mast step on my boat is a teak board fastened across two small floors in the bow. I imagine the floors are attached to the keel but not to anything else. Giving ghe mast a slight fore aft eiggle will set the whole mast step structure moving back and forth a littleÖ. Without the sail in it can be moved by hand a little. I might try giving the three brass screws apparent a little tighten in case the go right through. Interestingly some of the frames in the bow donít line up. Monday at the boat school?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #188
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Also my freshly painted daggerboard seems to be acquiring some plasticine-like brown/ maybe goo along it’s edges from the inside of the trunk. Some sort of sealant?? Not rubbery, can push it around with my finger with effort.
    Not worried about the boardC10E3E74-E124-467B-AD13-935DE5A4A0D9.jpg so much, don’t want to get it on everything in the cockpit

  14. #189
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    It may be a bit late to get concerned abut the frames not lining up and it won't make any practical difference anyway.The mast step moving around is a cause for concern and needs to be fixed.I would hope there are recesses in the bottom to match the floors,or alternatively a block added tot he bottom to limit fore and aft movement.If neither of these situations pertain then a good sized oak dowel through the step and well into the floors will be helpful.

  15. #190
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Unscrewed the mast step as it seemed mostly the floors that had the wobble. The step is nicely notched into the floors. However both floors were quite wobbly. By the plugs in the top I could see the one closest to the bow had two screws while the larger one, aft had only one screw. I drilled out one of the plugs in the valve floor found the top of the Robertsons screw and was able to snug it up making the floor much tighter. I tried the same with the after floor which had only the one screw whilst I was able to drill down through the plug and the rubbery sealant below that and seem to encounter the screw head I cannot for the life of me determine where the socket was in the screw head. It was about 1.5-2” deep in the floor. So i put it back together and as a very temporary fix i used tiny c clamp to clamp it to the frame it sits next to, which firmed it up considerably. I will attend to it more thoroughly when i get back to Vancouver. Not worried about the few frames in the bow not lining up, just curious. Q73138847-7999-434E-A502-9DF02B73CF5A.jpg

  16. #191
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I canít figure out why this Gartside 130 and Michelle back dinghy to have the downhaul attachment on the starboard side of the mast. On my shelf acting I have this bar is on the starboard side but I have always understood that itís more common to have them on the port side. Is there something Iím missing? Any explanations ideas?9BC4F1F8-2C0B-4228-8998-04F0747D3AE1.jpg

  17. #192
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Just one other thing to check into... I found that my mast traveler would occasionally hang up due to twist in the halyard as I raised the main. I installed a simple swivel at the attachment to the mast traveler to prevent twist from causing an increase in friction.

  18. #193
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Thanks.

    anyone have any insight into why the downhaul attachment is on the starboard side of the mast partners?

  19. #194
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    My thought would be so the downhaul can go around the mast - as in from port to starboard - and thereby help keep the spar against the mast. I have my Shellback downhaul on the lug sail going to a cleat on the starboard side of the mast for same reason.

  20. #195
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I was doong this which worked well but thwblock in the boom rubs against the mast.CFDD890F-38F0-4E40-9BFC-5042D89B85B2.jpg

  21. #196
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxophilite View Post
    Thanks.

    anyone have any insight into why the downhaul attachment is on the starboard side of the mast partners?
    Nope. It makes more sense to me to run the downhaul on the same side as the tack.'

    Unless this boat is set up to rig the yard on the starboard side, putting the halyard to port? I've seen lugsails set up that way, but as a right-handed person, I always rig my yard to port.

    Tom
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  22. #197
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    Default Banana Mast

    I have realized my mast is a banana with a pretty good bend, on a diagonal in line with the sheave which is also on a diagonal according to Mr. Gartside plans.

    I am trying a makeshift way to straighten it , with weights hung from it producing an opposite over bend. I believe it's solid laminated spruce(2 pieces)
    Is there a better way? Should I be trying to soak the area in question? I have since moved it into the sun with the same weights but supported on chairs
    IMG_2172.jpg
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 08-14-2022 at 03:37 PM.

  23. #198
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Other than aesthetics,what bad things are occurring as a result of the bend?

  24. #199
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Well that's a good point I guess it'd bent towards where the rig would normally hang off it, however it could be rotated 180 degrees and it would have a counter bend and maybe straighten itself after a while.

  25. #200
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Is there a way to straighten a wooden mast? (regardless of whether I should or not)

  26. #201
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I think so. If it's a hollow glued up stick you might be able to soften the glue and straighten it before gluing it back in shape. For any stick cut it lengthwise and straighten then glue. Good luck.

  27. #202
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Beefed up the mast step, added a black locust rebated collar to the partners (collar on bottom too)and boxed the too small tenon of the mast with 1/8" mahogany pieces and then shaped it down to fit well but not too snugly. Admittedly I didn't make it pretty. Step is very firm with the addition of the two little knees and boxing the stem and floors. With the mast leathered the mast sits very firmly in the partners. Altogether a huge improvement. I had sone bike note left in a can so I paint the area and all the repaired parts after appropriate prep) (except for the step of course, Still a couple of wooden plugs to install.Forgot to get a photo with the mast up etc

    I had my welder brother (I luckily have a lathe happy brother and a welding circus brother)adjust the mast traveller and it works better. It still wants to get hung up a little despite being more than large enough (I think it's a result of the slightly bent mast and the resulting halyard angle and then the leather biding against the mast) I'm temped too wrap it with rope which should present less surface area and be more slippery. However I'm not entirely sold on the traveller idea. A Topsailhalyard hitch is so simple and effective.





  28. #203
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I'm not wildly enthusiastic about the metal traveler rings myself. The only advantage they offer (for my boat) is that they keep the yard from sagging off when the sail is reefed (especially when it's deep-reefed). But you can achieve the same result by tying to the yard with a constrictor hitch on the halyard, and then using the tail of the halyard to tie a parrel around the mast to keep the yard from sagging off.

    I much prefer solutions that minimize hardware.

    Tom
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  29. #204
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I'll try it a bit more and see if I can like it. It makes the downhaul tackle set up a little more fussy too.

    In the meantime here's a better picture of the improved mast situation

    And as I get a sore should/arm reaching back for the tiller as I often sit amidships (or close), I was thinking of attaching this matching(haha)oak tiller extension I've had for a million years and haven't used. Eventually I will be making a slightly longer Blk Locust tiller from some nicely curved pieces I have that will allow me to have a tiller impeder but maybe this untill then.

    Anyone else use one on their small wooden boat? I've had mixed experiences in the past
    Usually from my lack of attention and the %$^%$ extension getting jammed against something or generally hung up




  30. #205
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    I always use an extension. Yours looks quite long. I make universal joint out of line; my favorite is a bamboo extension.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  31. #206
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Still trying to get used to the traveller. I have it working better now. the sheave up top my past was a too narrow wooden one which some well meaning but misguided individual had 'widened with tow disks that look like they were made out of the tops of yogurt containers. I had a nylon one left over from repairing a similar situation in my shellback and it helped alot..obviously. So far no longer hanging up.

    - I find that when dropping sail, with the traveller, that the yard often wants to rotate and end up at right angles to the mast, requiring me to grab the sail; and manhandle it awkwardly around. I never had this happen using just the topsail halyard bend.

    - Also the traveller can rotate around the mast and create new permutations of fouled rigging, not to mention coming off the bottom when lowering the mast.

    Anyone else have these difficulties and are there methods to avoid them?

    Does anyone have a diagram of the 'spar catcher' setup which I've read about but can't seem to find a picture of.
    I do have my new belaying pins in though, had to shape them a bit to fit.

    IMG_2344.jpg
    Last edited by Toxophilite; 08-30-2022 at 03:43 AM.

  32. #207
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Give it a toplift or a one rope lazy jack tied to about two thirds of the boom lengt. That works very well on my Sooty Tern.
    Cheers
    Max

  33. #208
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Goofing around with a roughed out removable sprit (unfinished, not even round etc.)and the foresails from my Shellback (which isn't supposed to have foresails.) Tried it my second largest and the largest one. I forgot to check with the largest but there was still weather helm with the second largest.
    I cut the foot of the largest one a little too straight so it looks hooked. Works though.
    2nd largest about 15 sq ft largest 20 sq ft (picture of the boat wit etc mai up shows the largest sail, It looks a little gimpy

    As a rough test upwind I tried sheeting it in tight and then letting it fly. My GPS showed a half knot difference. I was hitting hull speed pretty easily.
    Maybe pointed a little higher and of course tacked quicker. Thinking about it. having the morsel block lower on the front of the mast might make it look a little better. I didn't have any cam cleats installed. I was just running the sheet through the rail and then back to the middle cleat for testing the idea for kicks.
    Bowsprits always look cool.




    Last edited by Toxophilite; 08-31-2022 at 12:24 AM.

  34. #209
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Sprit properly finished. I used cetol light and gloss because I had some. Very sift though and still feels a little 'grippy' after a week or so.
    Looks good on the boat and seems helpful upwind or in light airs. My current thing is to just use the main downwind for the blessed simplicity and then if I need to make tracks upwind I use the foresails.



    and pre penny and leathering..




  35. #210
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    Default Re: A Gartside # 130 followed me home

    Got tired of reaching back to the tiller (original one) so I finally made a new longer Black Locust tiller. I'm not too keen on extensions. I had some wood left over from milling frames many years ago and it had a prefect curved grain. It ended up being slightly more slender than originally planned but the locust is tight grained and very strong. It's slightly wider than the old one. Much more comfortable when balancing the boat single handed. I keep the shorter one in the boat for when I have 'crew' .

    I made a tiller tamer for it too, and as I didn't have the metal bits for a narrow tiller I made a purple heart fairlead and what I believe is an orange heart tube jam cleat. I had an old bronze block my friend gave me that fit nicely. Seems to work great, w'ell see how it holds up.

    The original tiller has the mark 1 purple heart fairlead attached on the sides. It works too and is stouter but the bottom attachment points are better.




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