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Thread: Gas from russia to europe

  1. #1
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    Default Gas from russia to europe

    I donít understand how gas gets to eurpoe from russia.

    Is it just these pipelines? A loooong pipeline seems a soft target.

    Is ukraine holding back for political reasons?

    4EF95896-2B11-47F1-93D0-C5CA1E52C202.jpg

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    I don’t understand how gas gets to eurpoe from russia.

    Is it just these pipelines? A loooong pipeline seems a soft target.

    Is ukraine holding back for political reasons?
    So, you are suggesting that Ukraine carries out an act of war in a neighbouring, friendly state?

    Your post is wrong-headed. As such, it is a waste of bandwidth to respond any further.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    So, you are suggesting that Ukraine carries out an act of war in a neighbouring, friendly state?
    or, they could carry out an act of war in a neighboring unfriendly state. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    That would be swell.

    They could hit it near Smolensk. It’s only 10 hours from kiev. And I’d be surprised if even you could consider belarus a friendly state.

    And the Finland has already shown it’s not going to bend over for putin. They have been cut off. Maybe they can help their european neighbors find some courage.

    I see everybody has agreed to pay in rubles in an adult version of peek a boo. I bet the ruble is up today.
    Last edited by bluedog225; 05-25-2022 at 08:49 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Those are simplified schematic maps. The real pipelines are more numerous and more complicated.

    You do understand that Germany can neither import gas by ship until it has built the necessary port facilities (regasification plants and port storage and berths) nor import gas from elsewhere in the EU until pipelines are built?

    You do understand that this gas isnít for central heating and cooking? German heavy industry runs on it.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Or poland could toss the genocide treaty on the table and turn off the tap. That there can be any love between the poland and germany is baffling.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Yes. It’s about industry. No one believes it’s about heating or cooking. Money over dead kids. As a matter of national policy.

    my point being, Ukraine is fighting for the lives of its people. Hitting natural gas transmission and distribution facilities that are literally within walking distance seems like a good move. Because germany (and others) are literally financing russia. Literally.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Ukraine is still collecting transit fees from Russia for every cubic meter of gas crossing its territory as does every other country with a pipeline. Poland cutting off the gas supply to Germany is really going to be a boost for harmony within the EU.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Yes. It’s about industry. No one believes it’s about heating or cooking. Money over dead kids. As a matter of national policy.

    my point being, Ukraine is fighting for the lives of its people. Hitting natural gas transmission and distribution facilities that are literally within walking distance seems like a good move. Because germany (and others) are literally financing russia. Literally.
    What a good day for a Texan to say this.
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Yeah. A crazy man killing kids is the same as financing the killing of Ukrainians so the factories can stay open. Dirty politics and a cheap shot.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Those are simplified schematic maps. The real pipelines are more numerous and more complicated.

    You do understand that Germany can neither import gas by ship until it has built the necessary port facilities (regasification plants and port storage and berths) nor import gas from elsewhere in the EU until pipelines are built?

    You do understand that this gas isn’t for central heating and cooking? German heavy industry runs on it.
    The evidence from past thready is that HE DOES NOT CARE.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Yeah. A crazy man killing kids is the same as financing the killing of Ukrainians so the factories can stay open. Dirty politics and a cheap shot.
    I’d hazard a guess that more American kids have been killed in schools this year than Ukrainian, but not a comment from you in the Texas shooting thread.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    If I had a hammer…

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    I'm always surprised by the fact that some people willingly expose themselves as extremely dumb.
    I almost feel sorry for him, almost ....

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    I'm always surprised by the fact that some people willingly expose themselves as extremely dumb.
    I almost feel sorry for him, almost ....
    Bluedog has an itch and for some reason he’s picked the simplest yet self destructive and irrelevant method to scratch it. I just don’t get it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    I thought we were imposing sanctions to pressure the russian economy and devalue the ruble.

    How’s that going?

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    I'm always surprised by the fact that some people willingly expose themselves as extremely dumb.
    I almost feel sorry for him, almost ....
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Bluedog has an itch and for some reason he’s picked the simplest yet self destructive and irrelevant method to scratch it. I just don’t get it.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...87#post6665687
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Lazy. Why is the ruble near it’s 5 year high? Explain it to this dumb hillbilly.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    . . . .
    Why do you hate Germans so much?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    What a good day for a Texan to say this.
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Yeah. A crazy man killing kids is the same as financing the killing of Ukrainians so the factories can stay open. Dirty politics and a cheap shot.
    The mass killings from gun violence are a direct result of public policy which promotes gun ownership, and resists any reasonable regulation of same, along with the social degradation inherent to Acton Dictum choices. And Texas is a LOUD PROUD promoter of those public policies (both 'gun' and 'concentration of wealth')... with very very predictable results. Your attempt to disqualify the comment as a False Equivalence is ill-founded.
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    A few more pipelines than the OP thinks...

    gas.jpg

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    A few more pipelines than the OP thinks...

    gas.jpg
    Simple maps for...
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Gosh, the may be a dozen. Meanwhile they are sinking russian warships without a navy.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    An ugly reality that I would rather not believe is that Ukraine is not disrupting gas more as part of a deal with europe for support on sanctions, arms, and refugees. Though as sanctions becomes more and more of a charade, maybe Ukraine will rethink this.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    An ugly reality that I would rather not believe is that Ukraine is not disrupting gas more as part of a deal with europe for support on sanctions, arms, and refugees. Though as sanctions becomes more and more of a charade, maybe Ukraine will rethink this.
    Or maybe not. Maybe you are unaware of the lifestyle that gas transit fees afford to those in power.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Lazy. Why is the ruble near it’s 5 year high? Explain it to this dumb hillbilly.
    I don’t know but it seems like you expect simple solutions that involve flipping a switch. Russia has the funds to accomplish their military goals. That we can apply sanctions to cause them economic distress doesn’t mean they will give up their goals. Look at the various sanctions the US has used elsewhere. Calling Russia’s actions genocide or Iraq’s weapon programs “WMD” doesn’t change what they do.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    An ugly reality that I would rather not believe is that Ukraine is not disrupting gas more as part of a deal with europe for support on sanctions, arms, and refugees. Though as sanctions becomes more and more of a charade, maybe Ukraine will rethink this.
    Again, sanctions do not provide the basis for another country’s policies and actions. It may influence them but they are not the basis for them. I get the impression from you that the US can just flip a switch and others will dance to our tune.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    From January of 1944 through October of that year, Tennessee Gas built a pipeline from near Corpus Christi, Texas to near the point where Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia meet. This was while the US was at war and with shortages of equipment and manpower. "The final tie-in occurred on October 31, 1944, with gas reaching Tennessee Gasís customers less than 24 hours later. Completing the Tennessee Gas pipeline had taken fewer than eleven months after the groundbreaking, with 94 percent of the pipeline built between May 1 and October 31, 1944." https://thebhc.org/sites/default/files/raley.pdf

    My father worked on the section where it crossed the Mississippi River during the summer between his 11th and 12th grades.

    Just how long do you think it would take to repair any damage that Ukraine could do?

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Think I saw that Ukraine does not want to give Russia any excuses for more grief, by cutting supplies and existing treaties.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    If the ruble is near a 5-year high, our sanctions suck ***. And killing people on both sides is preferred over other options.
    Last edited by bluedog225; 05-25-2022 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    I wonder if Kruger et.al. need additional case studies???
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe


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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    or, they could carry out an act of war in a neighboring unfriendly state. . .

    I'll bet they could sabotage the pipeline (at least the southern most one) before it leaves Russia and thereby not committing an act of war to a friendly neighbor. Do you think it is sufficiently guarded/protected for its entire stretch in Russia?

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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Lazy. Why is the ruble near it’s 5 year high? Explain it to this dumb hillbilly.
    Right. I am going to do this in plain words.

    1. The head of the Russian Central Bank, the Bank of Russia, is a lady called Elvira Nabiullina. She resigned when Putin started his invasion but he persuaded her to stay on. This matters because she is considered by almost all other central bankers to be highly competent.

    2. As news of her resignation spread, the Rouble crashed to the point where one US cent would buy you two roubles.

    3. As soon as she came back on board she put in hand measures to stabilise the Rouble, which had crashed. She put interest rates up to 20 (yes, twenty per cent) and she made the Rouble non-convertible on current and on capital account.

    4. A few days later came her master stroke; she required people buying anything from Russia to pay for the goods they are buying in Roubles. This is really clever and only someone with Nabiullina’s intellect and experience would think of it.
    Ordinary people would think that Russia would want payment in hard currency. Nabiullina is smarter than that. By requiring buyers of Russian exports to first buy roubles from a Russian bank at a fixed exchange rate she can point to actual transactions at her exchange rate, and she has created a market at that rate.

    5. This is a fake exchange rate - if the Rouble were freely convertible everyone would sell roubles and buy dollars or euros. Nothing new here - in the days of the Soviet Union the rouble had an official rate and a real one and as a schoolboy visiting Russia in 1971 I spent a few minutes in a lift stopped between floors in an unfinished building with a gangster who was very happy to give me eight roubles for each of my pounds when the official rate was two.

    6. You can see that an interest rate of 15% (she has brought it down from 20%) isn’t going to do anything for the Russian economy. But that is a price that Putin is willing to pay - for the time being…

    7. All clear?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvira_Nabiullina
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Gas from russia to europe

    Helpful. Thanks Andrew.

    Are the various pipelines too valuable to europe for Ukraine to risk damaging. At the risk of withdrawal of european support?

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