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Thread: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

  1. #1
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    Default Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Hello,

    I am currently building a SOF kayak from yostwerks.org and I am wondering which purpose deck plates serve on the frame.

    It can be seen here on the last picture:
    http://yostwerks.org/NewSeaRiderFrameCollage1.html

    For now I am planning on not installing deck plates, and to dowel the gunwales to the bow/stern stems.

    Is there a disadvantage of omitting deck plates?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    The deck plates as you call them are breasthooks to me and I believe the breasthook would be much stronger than a dowel bridging the two gunwales to the stem. I am not a skin on frame guy so I am sure there will be more expert answers from others.
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Much like a breasthook. It ties everything together and provides strength.
    Why would you want to eliminate them? It won't save that much weight.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by kayak_building_with_fir View Post
    Hello,

    I am currently building a SOF kayak from yostwerks.org and I am wondering which purpose deck plates serve on the frame.

    It can be seen here on the last picture:
    http://yostwerks.org/NewSeaRiderFrameCollage1.html

    For now I am planning on not installing deck plates, and to dowel the gunwales to the bow/stern stems.

    Is there a disadvantage of omitting deck plates?

    Thanks!
    Don't bugger about with a designer's work.
    If the designer says that these breasthooks are necessary, trust his judgement.
    They will tie the gunwales and stem together to absorb the racking forces that would cause a shearing force on dowels between the gunwales and top of the stem.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    I don't want to eliminate them for weight reasons, I was just wondering if they serve a structural purpose or just cosmetic, as most build logs that can be found do not use a deck plate.

    On the website there is not that much context, here I found a page showing the tips in detail:
    http://yostwerks.org/SRTipsA.html

    How would you attach it? Yostwerks is suggesting epoxy, but I wanted to lash the whole frame. More dowels?


    Thanks for the answers!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Why not follow the instruction from Yoastwerks? Clearly they have practical experience with building this kayak have good reasons for their suggestions/methods. Why do you want to only lash it together? Are you going to use strips of seal skin and skin cover the frame or are you using modern materials?
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    I don't want to use epoxy, it is a mess. Lashing the frame together worked well for me on the last boat, and I would like to apply it to this boat as well.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    I built 7 Yost kayaks, none had "deck plates". But none were the greenland style.
    That area has more wood than anywhere else on the boat, I have never seen any suggestion there was a problem.

    Of course I made all my joints with epoxy.

    IMHO, it would work with or without the deck plates.
    Do what you want.

    But joints with no epoxy will collect water, potentially leading to rot at the very place you want lifetime strength.
    Do what your bias suggests. I have my own.
    I would epoxy the edge of any plywood - that is a surefire place for rot.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    I built 7 Yost kayaks, .
    Did you build the Roldarka ? It looks like a most excellent hull .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    I'm building a Yost kayak right now--no breasthooks shown, just stringers beveled and lashed to stems. But I suppose you could glue it in with something non-epoxy, eh? Even Titebond III (or whatever) would be find if it's a good fit and is clamped well to dry.

    I went with all lashing and no epoxy as well. Kind of fun to build a boat that way. I oiled the entire frame before skinning, including the edges of the plywood frames. I'm not sure how much protection that will give to the plywood edges, but I don't anticipate much water getting in the boat during normal operations. I think rot is unlikely to be a problem for a good long time.

    Tom
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Hi Tom, on my last boat(which was a kudzu curlew) I did it just as you. Lashings only, all frames and stringers oiled with a few coats of tung oil before assembly.

    In Jeff Horton's book Fuselage Frame Boats it even says to apply oil to the finished frame, that would keep these parts unprotected.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Three Cedars.

    I did not. My boats were all Sea Tours of various sizes.

    Good luck.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Beyond strength, the plates/breasthooks on that model may serve to give the skin a nice shape in the ends. Eliminate them and you may be fighting puckers or wrinkles.
    -Dave

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by kayak_building_with_fir View Post
    I don't want to use epoxy, it is a mess. Lashing the frame together worked well for me on the last boat, and I would like to apply it to this boat as well.
    Not all epoxy is messy. I can personally recommend West's Six10. It is easy to use, it comes out of the mixer tube as a gel which you can apply upside down if needs be.

    Dearer than mix your own epoxy but if you are only needing a modest amount the benefits are worth the extra cost.

    https://www.westsystem.com/specialty...poxy-adhesive/

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Here is a picture of the bow and stern how they look now. Each pair of stringers/gunwales is held together by a two dovels and a lashing.

    The stem plates still need some trimming though, I am planning to have a little more blunt ends instead of the pointy ends of the original design.

    Will this be rigid enough or should I still add deck plates?



    PXL_20220529_202658928.jpg
    PXL_20220530_201346621.jpg

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Looks good to me! I didn't add deck plates into my Tom Yost Seabee 13. Haven't had any problems at all.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    I finally came around to finish bow and stern, here are some frame on grass pictures:

    IMGP3729.jpg

    IMGP3709.jpg

    IMGP3727.jpg

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Looks good!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Looks nice, but its a pity you rounded the edges of the longerons.
    I did that and it made a perfect place to trap debris that got inside the boat.
    Eventually (not long) the debris would get between the longeron and the skin and made little bumps in the skin.
    Looked like a case of zits along each longeron.
    Almost impossible to get out.
    Good luck.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    Beautiful!
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Skin on Frame Kayak - Purpose of a Deck Plate

    epoxy is not messy,people are

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