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Thread: Dust Collector Recommendation

  1. #1
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    Default Dust Collector Recommendation

    A happy day in the shop today. My Jet dust collector bit the dust in dramatic fashion this afternoon, releasing in the process all its internally stored smoke. It's a happy day because I have hated that machine for the last fifteen years.

    It is (was) an 1100 CFM, 1.5 HP 110v single phase machine, which is a bit small for my shop. I'd like to replace it with a cyclone unit with a bit more suck. I have 220v available, but only single phase.

    Anybody got a favorite they'd like to recommend?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Interesting. I've worked in shops from 1-man to dozens of people. Dust collection from some of the high-end industrial mfgrs... to smaller: Powermatic; Craftsman; Jet; Grizzly; even Harbor Freight. Never had one I hated. Some were noisier. Some were easier to empty. Some vented fine dust back into the air. But mostly they just worked.

    What was it about the Jet you disliked?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    It has a canister filter that would never seal. I had to duct tape the heck out of it to keep it from blowing dust. The remote quit working after a year, but it would start spontaneously whenever it felt like it. Jet replaced the whole unit at no cost, but the new one was plagued with the same issues.

    It now needs a starting capacitor and maybe a centrifugal switch, but what it will get is a trip to the landfill.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    It has a canister filter that would never seal. I had to duct tape the heck out of it to keep it from blowing dust. The remote quit working after a year, but it would start spontaneously whenever it felt like it. Jet replaced the whole unit at no cost, but the new one was plagued with the same issues.

    It now needs a starting capacitor and maybe a centrifugal switch, but what it will get is a trip to the landfill.
    Sometimes a lemon comes along. No specific recommendations. I prefer no-frills models that are easy to empty. Fine Woodworking runs comparo articles you might find useful.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Sometimes a lemon comes along. No specific recommendations. I prefer no-frills models that are easy to empty. Fine Woodworking runs comparo articles you might find useful.
    Yup, thanks. I've been reading the reviews.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    If you have 220, and you want to do a cyclone, there are these: https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/sho..._cat_list_0=45
    Heute ist so ein schöne Tag...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    I have been very happy with my Oneida, 220v, 5 hp, has contacted for using remotes. The old bin monitor has been tricky, need to upgrade to their new style.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schweiss View Post
    I have been very happy with my Oneida, 220v, 5 hp, has contacted for using remotes. The old bin monitor has been tricky, need to upgrade to their new style.
    Thanks Paul. I've looked pretty closely at the Oneida cyclones. They look like a solid unit.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Thanks Paul. I've looked pretty closely at the Oneida cyclones. They look like a solid unit.
    I've never worked around one, but their reputation seems to be good.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    I have a clear vue cyclone as mentioned in #6 above. I installed it about eleven years ago and it has always worked as advertised. It is loud but I've always taken that to mean it sucks a lot. For a remote I use a remote switch thing I bought at Ace hardware locally. Simply plug it in or, in my case, I spliced it into my 220 line. I carry the remote on/off button in my apron. Works well.

    Jeff

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Very happy with Oneida. I upgraded my four decades old Cincinnati Fan & Ventilator item using Oneida’s products, saved a bit over buying full-new package. HEPA filter & cyclonic separator, bin for the heavy stuff all came from Oneida. All I saved was the CF&V blower & motor, which still runs on 120VAC. 4” hose to whatever machine I’m running, it does a bang-up job. Recommend Oneida to others I talk about dust collection with.

    Their little plastic Dust Deputy was my first try. In three years it’s saved me at least 5x its price in shop vac filters.
    “Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”

    Marcus Aurelius, The Meditations

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    I built my own home made version of the Pentz cyclone offered by clear vue. Coupled to a filter unit of my own design which I consider to be better than the clear vue design.
    The result is that the sinus problems that I had for many years are now completely gone.

    The main problem with a filter cartridge atop a standard bag over bag collector is that the coarse dust whirling around inside wears out the filter prematurely and once worn the expensive cartridge filter lets the fine dust out into the surrounding air just like the old canvas bag did. The cyclone is mainly there to protect the filter and the better it works the better will the filters work.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Terry, I think you're looking for a commercial system, but I recently upgraded my dust collection to a cyclone. For others this a cheap(er) way of getting the same result.

    I had a simple 'chip extractor' before hand which was OK for chips from the thicknesser but since it blows air through the bag, the pore size in the bag is large, so small (the most harmful) particles weren't collected from dustier sources and it was frankly blowing dust around when connected to anything. It reduced it's efficiency as it filled up and emptying the contents out back through the air hole wasn't fun and exposed me to dust again. 'Chip extractors' look like this...




    Since commercial cyclone units cost a pretty penny, I bought/ made one using the chip extractor HVLP fan, for a fraction of the price.

    I offset the HVLP extractor, mounting it to an offset wooden box, so it entered over the cyclone inside the doorway of my garage. There is a very short vertical clear pipe connecting to the cyclone beneath. I tried a simple metal 100mm pipe connector but the weight of the fan is considerable and it didn't feel happy. The box is held to the wall just by a pair of garage tool hangers so easy to remove/ move if needed if I get a blockage in it or need to change it.

    The cyclone is a 100m inlet/ outlet all metal welded design from Axminster. On it's own about £100-150 or about £165 I think it was with the bottom container. It's well made. 100mm cyclones are not easy to come by off the shelf. There is a 100mm inlet pipe with a long flange on the end. I connect that to the bandsaw/ thicknesser as I use them . Doesn't really need a quick release spring clamp on the end but that's there too.



    Alot of people build a cyclone then bolt it to a bin, box or food container. The food container's seem to end up imploding. The Axminster container is actually pretty clever. There is an internal cage that keeps the bag open and a strap that you unclip to remove the bag sideways. You don't have to hitch the cyclone up to get the top off like with a food container or bin. Just chuck the bag and waste or empty the bag into garden waste and re-use the bag. The bag is clear so you can immediately see as it gets full, which is does pretty quick with a thicknesser as it's so efficient. Once full it's going to blow it out the outlet - had this once when I didn't keep an eye on it! I used to struggle to pull chips out of the thicknesser when the gap was down to 6-9mm or so but the cyclone still pulls chips out, so it seems better as well as cleaner/ more efficient.

    I'm still not entirely sure how a cyclone works. There is negative pressure in the whole bag (it gets sucked up off the ground) yet bits drop into it down the center. Efficiency looking at other peoples seems to be close to 100% and that seems to be the case with mine. My HVLP is 'bottom of the range' about 1hp but for me, it's all that seems needed and the cyclone works perfect. If you were running long pipes though I'm sure you'd need more. My intake pipe is level with the thicknesser and bandsaw outlets so it's all a straight lone and bend less.

    I don't have a filter on the HVLP outlet. Looking at others after several months there seems to be practically nothing in there and I think the added resistance would hamper it's effort. It's inside my front door so it vents to outside. If it was commercial I'm sure I'd need a canister stuck on the end. Given I'm woodworking and there's a bit of dust anyway at source. I'm good with it. It's basically the same as a commercial unit - an HVLP mounted ontop of a cyclone, but it's all in alignment and goes into a corner. I can see why the commercial units have a frame as the extractor (motor) is pretty heavy. I use the thicknesser outside too and the pipe reaches.

    The HVLP extractors from cheaper chip extractors are pretty cheap on ebay - about £50 they go for, so you can make a £1-1500 dust extraction system for about £2-250 including piping.

    fullsizeoutput_2e.jpg

    fullsizeoutput_30.jpg

    Photos keep coming out at 90 degrees for some reason...

    Anybody trying this at home...well I measured thrice and got my box offset correct for the cyclone outlet hole but didn't realise the corner of the garage is slightly 'off level' and it tips the connector pipe slightly out of perfect alignment (though it's more than good enough). Just saying if anyone builds something similar.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-16-2022 at 11:52 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schweiss View Post
    I have been very happy with my Oneida, 220v, 5 hp, has contacted for using remotes. The old bin monitor has been tricky, need to upgrade to their new style.

    I used to have a 3HP Oneida cyclone. I always regretted not going for the 5HP.



  15. #15
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Terry, I think you're looking for a commercial system, but I recently upgraded my dust collection to a cyclone. For others this a cheap(er) way of getting the same result.

    I had a simple 'chip extractor' before hand which was OK for chips from the thicknesser but since it blows air through the bag, the pore size in the bag is large, so small (the most harmful) particles weren't collected from dustier sources and it was frankly blowing dust around when connected to anything. It reduced it's efficiency as it filled up and emptying the contents out back through the air hole wasn't fun and exposed me to dust again. 'Chip extractors' look like this...




    Since commercial cyclone units cost a pretty penny, I bought/ made one using the chip extractor HVLP fan, for a fraction of the price.

    I offset the HVLP extractor, mounting it to an offset wooden box, so it entered over the cyclone inside the doorway of my garage. There is a very short vertical clear pipe connecting to the cyclone beneath. I tried a simple metal 100mm pipe connector but the weight of the fan is considerable and it didn't feel happy. The box is held to the wall just by a pair of garage tool hangers so easy to remove/ move if needed if I get a blockage in it or need to change it.

    The cyclone is a 100m inlet/ outlet all metal welded design from Axminster. On it's own about £100-150 or about £165 I think it was with the bottom container. It's well made. 100mm cyclones are not easy to come by off the shelf. There is a 100mm inlet pipe with a long flange on the end. I connect that to the bandsaw/ thicknesser as I use them . Doesn't really need a quick release spring clamp on the end but that's there too.



    Alot of people build a cyclone then bolt it to a bin, box or food container. The food container's seem to end up imploding. The Axminster container is actually pretty clever. There is an internal cage that keeps the bag open and a strap that you unclip to remove the bag sideways.

    I'm still not entirely sure how a cyclone works. There is negative pressure in the whole bag (it gets sucked up off the ground) yet bits drop into it down the center. .
    Unless you have a hole in the bag there will be 0 cfm though it, but under negative pressure
    The airflow should be completely above it,in the cyclone.
    Industrial systems will have a rotary airlock between the cyclone and the bin to keep the dust and chips from being picked up when the bin is full.
    The air spins in the cyclone, with heavier(than air) particles and dust falling/flying out of the airstream and dropping into the bag, due to centrifugal force and gravity, while the cleaned air is pulled upward through the centre hole at the top and then through the fan.
    Longer cones clean the air better than short ones.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    Ron how is it that particles drop in to the bin but the bin is under overall negative 'suction' pressure? Mine gets sucked up off the floor a couple of inches (with the cage in pretty vigorously) untill the cage hits the stop! I thought I had too much suction first time, but all bits drop in as advertised and stay there. Bag is pretty heavy duty material. It's obviously how it works, but can't quite get my head around that bit. There's serious negative pressure in the bin total, but around zero around the entrance where the particles fall out of the stream at what i imagine is the tip of the cyclone. Nothing swirls around in the bag either. Just drops, like a feather to the bottom. It's a curious business. Is the cyclone of air extending down into the top of the bin invisibly? Is the projected tip inline with the cyclone sides? That might explain it.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 05-17-2022 at 05:18 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    The bin is under a slight vacuum, but there is no upward draft, the air in the container is for all purposes, still. Ron has it right.

    The cyclone that I used, a few posts back, had virtually no dust going into the pleated filter, everything dropped into the bin. The filter did need periodic removal and cleaning with compressed air, but compared with the overall quantity of dust involved the filter picked up very little.

    Those pleated filters a more efficient at removing small particles than cloth bags, which is an advantage if you have the machine indoors where you work.

    Jim

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    I have only just freed up a 220 breaker in my shop in the last couple weeks. I am seeing much the same suggestions here that I routinely see on a wood working forum I frequent. I don't know either, but I do know my 1hp, 110 volt chip collector is headed to the land fill - and my new 220volt dust collector will have a cyclone system on it.

    I have been running a DIY cyclone on my shop vac for over a year. Cyclones are awesome. If you aren't convinced, the "little plastic Dust Deputy" suggested by sp_clark already is your gateway drug. I can't get amazon prime shipping on that because of my zipcode and had to DIY. If you can get prime shipping on the Dust Deputy to your zipcode, you will get your money back in fewer shop vac filters - and/or time saved cleaning shop vac filters- astoundingly fast.

    The one thing about big cyclones is you need to know your average chip size. One local shop tour, the owner had a 27 gallon drum under his enormous cyclone, with room for a 55 gallon drum, and I asked why. He said is was the chips from his table sander - he does a lot of flat work like exterior doors- made the 55 gallon drum too heavy to load in his truck. He agreed if he was doing mostly planing and jointing the 55gal drum would work fine. He was a fairly burly individual, so grain of salt and a word to the wise.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Dust Collector Recommendation

    I sprung for the Oneida Super Cell.
    It kicks ass.
    SHC

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