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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #9101
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    As promised yesterday the ISW report of the attack on Iranian military production facilities.

    January 29, 2023, 3:00 pm ET
    The Iran Crisis Updates are produced by the Critical Threats Project (CTP) at the American Enterprise Institute with support from the Institute for the Study of War (ISW). To receive Iran Crisis Updates via email, please subscribe here.
    CTP is publishing an abbreviated Iran update today, January 29. This update focuses on the reported Israeli drone attack on an Iranian military munitions factory and other recently reported explosions and fires throughout Iran. CTP will resume publishing our regular Iran updates on January 30.
    Israel conducted a kamikaze drone attack on a military munitions factory near Esfahan City, Esfahan Province on January 28, according to Western media reports.[1]Israeli agents used at least three explosive-laden quadcopters in the attack, suggesting that they launched the strike from inside Iran rather than a neighboring state because of the range of heavily laden quadcopters.[2] The Defense and Armed Forces Logistics Ministry reportedly uses the targeted facility to produce ballistic missiles and drones.[3] Unidentified sources told Western and Israeli journalists that the strike was ”specific, surgical, and successful” and ”a tremendous success.”[4] The Iranian defense ministry dismissed these reports in a public statement, claiming that Iranian air defenses largely prevented the attack and that the drones caused only minimal damage to the roof of the facility.[5]
    Iranian officials have not blamed any specific actor for the drone attack at the time of this writing. They may avoid explicitly blaming Israel or any other actor until they have decided how they will respond. Iranian leaders could order proxy attacks on US positions in Iraq and Syria or into Israel in the coming weeks in retaliation. This attack will also likely further increase Iranian concerns over the alleged presence of Israeli intelligence services in Azerbaijan and Iraqi Kurdistan.
    This attack underscores the extent to which Israeli intelligence services have penetrated the Iranian security sphere. This infiltration has become increasingly obvious and ostentatious in recent years. Mossad has likely conducted several high-profile operations in Iran in recent years, including:[6]

    • Raiding a covert archive in Tehran and seizing sensitive documents tied to the pre-2003 Iranian nuclear weapons program in January 2018.
    • Assassinating senior Iranian nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhri Zadeh outside Tehran City in November 2020.
    • Sabotaging the Natanz Fuel Enrichment Plant in July 2020 and again in April 2021.
    • Conducting a kamikaze drone attack on a centrifuge manufacturing facility in Karaj in June 2021.

    Social media accounts reported additional explosions and fires throughout Iran around the same time as the drone strike, although these events were likely coincidental accidents or misreported. Social media users reported an explosion in Khoy, West Azerbaijan Province and an extensive fire at a motor fuel facility in Azar Shahr, East Azerbaijan Province.[7] Both occurred shortly after a nearby 5.9-magnitude earthquake in northwestern Iran, which very likely caused these events.[8] Social media users also reported Iranian fighter jets flying above Tehran and the sounds of explosions in Karaj, Alborz Province; Dezfoul, Khuzestan Province; and Hamedan City, Hamedan Province in the hours following the drone attack.[9] There is no evidence that any explosions occurred or images of any damage that might have been caused by explosions. These reports more likely suggest that the regime scrambled fighter jets from airfields that are close to these locations in response to the drone strike, and residents misreported the sounds of military aircraft as explosions.

  2. #9102
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Russians claim that Ukraine has hit a hospital in the occupied territories with Himars……...

    Apparently the building was studded with comms antennae, and was some sort of military HQ. An RF hotspot.

    The military unit's HQ was likely trying to use the hospital as a shield to protect themselves. The fault is on the Russians.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  3. #9103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Apparently the building was studded with comms antennae.....
    Take a look at the roof of your local hospital when you next drive by. Perfectly normal for comms antennae to be up there, they need to communicate with ambulances and support workers that are not on-site. No reason or an excuse to hit a hospital.

  4. #9104
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    With the advent of AI and the Chat GPT, I wonder if we are just being led along by an early Russian development of a chat bot?
    It also seems to have trouble distinguishing between fact and fake…………...
    Last edited by skuthorp; 01-30-2023 at 05:35 AM.

  5. #9105
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    There usually are just couple of antenna's to communicate with ambulances and helicopters on the average hospital, all the extra antenna are suspect because we all know it's a standard operation procedure of Russians to use civilians and civilian infrastructure as a shield against attacks.
    The reason for hitting a building like that is usually the intense radio communication traffic between commanders and the troops in the field, which can be carefully monitored by the intelligence services. The target selection process for the use of the expensive Himars rockets is well established and I'm pretty sure there was a perfectly good military reason for targeting that specific building.

  6. #9106
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    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    There usually are just couple of antenna's to communicate with ambulances and helicopters on the average hospital, all the extra antenna are suspect because we all know it's a standard operation procedure of Russians to use civilians and civilian infrastructure as a shield against attacks.
    The reason for hitting a building like that is usually the intense radio communication traffic between commanders and the troops in the field, which can be carefully monitored by the intelligence services. The target selection process for the use of the expensive Himars rockets is well established and I'm pretty sure there was a perfectly good military reason for targeting that specific building.
    Just so.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  7. #9107
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    Hmmm. We’ve had one person here ask another to validate an as yet unsubstantiated claim that they made regarding negotiations. The person making the claim said they had evidence to back that claim - I am assuming links to reputable sources.

    Have I missed that reply?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  8. #9108
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    ^ Crickets!
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  9. #9109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Just so.
    Is there anything you do not pretend to know?

    Whipps Cross Hospital, London



    Just one example. Must be a military base masking as a hospital.....call in the bombers.

  10. #9110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Is there anything you do not pretend to know?

    Whipps Cross Hospital, London



    Just one example. Must be a military base masking as a hospital.....call in the bombers.
    Frequency matters.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  11. #9111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Is there anything you do not pretend to know?

    Whipps Cross Hospital, London



    Just one example. Must be a military base masking as a hospital.....call in the bombers.
    Those will be cell phone masts. It is common in the UK for schools office blocks, and hospitals to rent roof space out to mobile phone networks.
    We know that UKR uses mobile phone chatter to locate Pootins cannon fodder. So they will be well able to intercept and study the traffic from any array of ariels.
    Another whataboutism fail.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #9112
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    I'm pretty sure this USAF global hawk is screening a couple of hundred or thousand? frequencies at this moment (13.57 UTC+1). In cooperation with his British co-worker operating along the western border of Ukraine they can pinpoint the targets.
    Scherm*afbeelding 2023-01-30 om 13.57.37.jpg

  13. #9113
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    Dear Generalissimo Prizoghin,

    Please supply a better class of shill; this one is too silly for the target audience.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  14. #9114
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    Maybe the Russcist propaganda is strictly aimed at the select few in the silliest end of the possible audience. Those who oppose all forms of thinking and want to make it a punishable offence because any such behaviour vilolates their own right to remain ignorant.
    That is the only target audience I can think of who would swallow that whataboutism.
    The problem being that they have become a rather influential group in certain parties and countries.
    Last edited by heimlaga; 01-30-2023 at 10:38 AM.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  15. #9115
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Sandtown, what does your response mean?

    You have said that the war would end if Zelensky agrees to Russia's terms. .
    NO, I did not say or write that . . .

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  17. #9117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Frequency matters.
    As does "before", and "after", aka spot the difference.
    There is also the possibility that the Ukrainians made a mistake, but almost zero likelihood that they decided to maliciously take out a hospital for being that.

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  18. #9118
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    As does "before", and "after", aka spot the difference.
    There is also the possibility that the Ukrainians made a mistake, but almost zero likelihood that they decided to maliciously take out a hospital for being that.

    Pete
    I agree. There has been no non-Russian press in the location by accounts I have read. The claim is was bristling with Antennae is just that, and no evidence before the strike to prove, unless that is in the pipeline.

    It could also have been the false flag event that has been mumbled about. The hospital might have been emptied and may have been a military base or a signal station.

    The fair question to ask, its Ukrainian territory, would they target a building without first checking what its use is?

  19. #9119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    I agree. There has been no non-Russian press in the location by accounts I have read. The claim is was bristling with Antennae is just that, and no evidence before the strike to prove, unless that is in the pipeline.

    It could also have been the false flag event that has been mumbled about. The hospital might have been emptied and may have been a military base or a signal station.

    The fair question to ask, its Ukrainian territory, would they target a building without first checking what its use is?
    They got this right
    the apparent failure of the Russian military to guard an occupied vocational school where the purported recruits were gathered
    based on mobile phone intercepts. Why doubt that they were right this time?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #9120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    They got this right based on mobile phone intercepts. Why doubt that they were right this time?
    Maybe because it was a hospital. If it was an empty hospital full of Russian military personnel is one thing. The report that is being told is that 14 staff and patients were killed. That may not be true, or its is yet another unfortunate fog of war incident.

  21. #9121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    . . . .
    What was the source of the report? C&P it pleases.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  22. #9122

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Or that the staff and patients were Russian medical corpsman and soldiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Maybe because it was a hospital. If it was an empty hospital full of Russian military personnel is one thing. The report that is being told is that 14 staff and patients were killed. That may not be true, or its is yet another unfortunate fog of war incident.

  23. #9123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikefrommontana View Post
    Or that the staff and patients were Russian medical corpsman and soldiers.
    And if that was the case......a war crime. Ukraine has not responded about it.

  24. #9124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    What was the source of the report? C&P it pleases.
    Russia accuses Ukraine of killing 14 in 'deliberate' strike on hospital | Reuters

  25. #9125
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Vadim, you are a war crime.

  26. #9126
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    All that says is "The Russian Defense Ministry says" - as if I'd believe a single word out of their mouths/computers. The question I'd ask is "Do you have a credible source for the report?"
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  27. #9127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    All that says is "The Russian Defense Ministry says" - as if I'd believe a single word out of their mouths/computers. The question I'd ask is "Do you have a credible source for the report?"
    Everyone has their own definition of "credible". Boris Johnson claims today that Putin threatened him with a missile, but, given he lost his position due to his continuous lying, would you call him credible?

    I did say there has been "chatter" regarding a false flag flag event, with no press on the ground, nothing can be confirmed.

    The same ministry you do not believe a single word also released this comment:

    Russia’s defense ministry on Wednesday blamed the illegal use of mobile phones by its soldiers for a deadly Ukrainian missile strike that it said killed 89 servicemen



  28. #9128
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Reuters was not able to independently verify the report.
    The alleged strike hit
    Russian spokesmen are known to be liars.
    Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, also spoke in the documentary about a visit to Moscow in February in an unsuccessful attempt to negotiate and avert war. He met his Russian counterpart, Sergei Shoigu, as well as the chief of the general staff, Valery Gerasimov.
    “I remember saying to minister Shoigu, ‘They will fight’ and he said, ‘My mother is Ukrainian; they won’t!’ He also said he had no intention of invading,” Wallace said.
    “That would be ‘vran’e’ in the Russian language. ‘Vran’e’ I think is sort of a demonstration of bullying or strength: I’m going to lie to you. You know I’m lying. I know you know I’m lying and I’m still going to lie to you. He knew I knew and I knew he knew. But I think it was about saying: I’m powerful.
    “It was the fairly chilling but direct lie of what they were not going to do that I think to me confirmed they were going to do it. I remember as we were walking out General Gerasimov said, ‘Never again will we be humiliated. We used to be the fourth army in the world, we’re now number two. It’s now America and us.’ And there in that minute was that sense of potentially why [they were doing this].”
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...uk-in-a-minute
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #9129
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    More from Chris Hedges - he is on a roll today.

    In this one he quite properly takes on the Neo-Cons and names names . . .

    including the Institute for the Study of War, which is posted here as a credible source - it is not.

    People, why do you find credbile those who have lied to you over and over again ??

    https://www.salon.com/2022/04/12/pim...back-for-more/

  30. #9130
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Aus and France are jointly going to manufacture artillery shells for Ukraine.

  31. #9131
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    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Aus and France are jointly going to manufacture artillery shells for Ukraine.
    10 submarines worth?
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  32. #9132
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    ...
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  33. #9133
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    Why do you find sources to be credible that have lied to you repeatedly ??

    Not doing that is a basic tenent in Critical Thinking 101
    Last edited by sandtown; 01-30-2023 at 09:22 PM.

  34. #9134
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Aus and France are jointly going to manufacture artillery shells for Ukraine.
    It was pretty shocking how low USA artillery shell production currently is. https://www.defensenews.com/land/202...ry-production/

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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    10 submarines worth?
    I think it extremely unlikely Aus will ever have an American built nuke powered submarine, at least not in the next 40 years. I'd take bets on it but I'd not be here to collect. We may have a few ratingsd and a Petty Officer or 3 on board American subs, a sop if you will, but that is all. But we've just completed what PineGap starts, the sub contracting of Australia's defence to America. All our eggs are in your particularly dodgy basket, and as usual any Pacific war will be fought on our continent, not yours.

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