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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #7211
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Maybe think about it some more? Do you not see any connection to any of the US interventions in the ME and what those countries main income is?

    How do you explain US military in Syria, not protecting people from terrorists or Assad, but oil pumps?

    The EU is the biggest importer of NG in the world and 41% of that came from Russia, and Americans have made obvious remarks about what a great opportunity it is to supply the EU.

    Germany have said they already know who is responsible, but for national security reasons, can not say who. Given the speed at which they have blamed Russia for other things, one has to ask, if they know it was Russia, why would they not say?
    I am under no illusions regarding US interference in the politics and resources of other countries.
    I don't think they did this one though.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  2. #7212
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    An interview with Timothy Snyder in this mornings Guardian
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-drone-defence

  3. #7213
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  4. #7214
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The first episode of this, Simon Schama’s History of Now (BBC Two), aired last night demonstrates how Trump, Erdoğan, and the Russian government all behaved, and now Putin in Ukraine, as predicted by Orwell in "1984".
    Episode one, subtitled Truth and Democracy, deals with what Schama sees as an era-defining battle between totalitarianism’s suppression of truth and artists’ unextinguishable yearning to tell it. An admiring glance at Picasso’s Guernica leads into an assessment of the disinformation battle running alongside the Spanish civil war, and how being on the wrong end of fascist lies inspired George Orwell to turn propaganda into dystopian fiction. Then, as the hot war of the 1930s and 40s turns cold, we’re in the Soviet Union in the late 50s, where Boris Pasternak knew the dissident sentiments within his epic novel Doctor Zhivago would lead to it being censored, but persevered and, following an exciting series of incidents involving smuggled manuscripts and CIA-backed publications abroad, won the Nobel prize.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #7215
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Thanks Nick, I look forward to it. The beeb always gets behind good quality doco's
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #7216
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Marine traffic showed no Australian vessels in the vicinity, and flight radar showed no Australian aircraft.

    Both showed a US warship and anti submarine capable helicopters in the area for several hours the night prior to the explosion. Probably just a coincidence.
    Ah, you clearly have no idea how this carp works.
    I'd tell you how I know, but I'd get arrested.
    But apart from that you might underestimate the resourcefulness of an Aussie tradie with a singular focus.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  7. #7217
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Thanks Nick, I look forward to it. The beeb always gets behind good quality doco's
    The C&P was from a critic in the Guardian, Jack Seale. He was less than complimentary.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  8. #7218
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Jossep Borrel is Spanish. Started his career as a socialist and helped bring Spain into a modern democracy.

    Do you know where Spain is?
    Weak game.

  9. #7219
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcintyre View Post
    An interview with Timothy Snyder in this mornings Guardian
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-drone-defence
    Thx, a friend gave me Snyder’s book Unmaking of Freedom. It’s a bit of work to follow his writing but worth it.

  10. #7220
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    I can assure you that many Russians who have access to outside news are indeed horrified. .
    How can you assure us, exactly?

  11. #7221
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    How can you assure us, exactly?
    From his position between the Ukrainian and Russian armies, where he had his tragiheroic injury which led to an amputation?

  12. #7222
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    How to surrender.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  13. #7223
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Ah, you clearly have no idea how this carp works..
    The way it works is that Ozz does nada without the approval of the Blobista hyper-power . .

    And that is the actual carp - just ask that Whitlam guy


  14. #7224
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, November 28.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-november-28

    Key Takeaways

    • The Russian-claimed capture of several small villages around Bakhmut on November 27 and 28 does not portend an imminent Russian encirclement of Bakhmut.
    • Recent Russian force deployments to Belarus in November 2022 are likely part of a Russian effort to augment Russian training capacity and conduct an information operation.
    • Russian milbloggers widely criticized the Russian Ministry of Defenseís (MoD) decision to place severe customs limits on the import of dual-use goods, indicating a continued and pervasive discontent with the Russian MoDís conduct of the war in Ukraine.
    • Russian forces are likely preparing to launch a new wave of missile strikes across Ukraine in the coming week, but such preparations are likely intended to sustain the recent pace of strikes rather than increase it.
    • Russian forces continued efforts to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations around Svatove as Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops continued counteroffensive west of Kreminna.
    • Russian forces made incremental gains south of Bakhmut.
    • Russian forces continued to strengthen fortified positions and establish security measures in eastern Kherson Oblast.
    • Ukrainian forces continued to strike Russian military assets and along critical logistics lines in southern Ukraine.
    • Russian forces continue to face issues with adequate training and equipment and challenges with morale and discipline as Russian military failures have significant domestic social impacts.
    • Russian occupation authorities continued efforts to facilitate the integration of educational systems in occupied Ukraine into the Russian system.

  15. #7225
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    [QUOTE=sandtown;6763373

    And that is the actual carp - just ask that Whitlam guy[/QUOTE]

    Whitlam left office in 1975- forty seven years ago. He died in 2014. You ask him.

  16. #7226
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    I'm just going to park this here.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  17. #7227
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    I can assure you that many Russians who have access to outside news are indeed horrified
    Not so horrified they protest, even for brethren Slav's.

    Theres a lot of fear in Russia. I suspect your average Ivan believes Putin could go, but would be replaced by someone equally ruthless. If you go to jail for protest you'll stay there Putin or no Putin.

    I have little to no sympathy. They gave their power away lightly.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  18. #7228
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I'm just going to park this here.
    This is outstanding.

    Thank you for posting it.

    We can see that the social media are the single most important cause of the global outbreak of stupidity.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  19. #7229
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Not so horrified they protest, even for brethren Slav's.

    Theres a lot of fear in Russia. I suspect your average Ivan believes Putin could go, but would be replaced by someone equally ruthless. If you go to jail for protest you'll stay there Putin or no Putin.

    I have little to no sympathy. They gave their power away lightly.
    How could you say that? There was posts here complaining about the regimes violent clamp down on protesters in Moscow and other cities, did you not see that on your news, or has the Murdoch press been hiding that also?

    How is tens of thousands of draft age men leaving Russia "not a protest"?

    Fear yes, when you can be disappeared with little to no consequence.

    You have the good fortune to live in a place where you can voice your opinion freely, are the North Koreans spineless too?

  20. #7230
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    This is outstanding.

    We can see that the social media are the single most important cause of the global outbreak of stupidity.

    One does not have to look very far, it would appear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I use Meta stuff, mostly Facebook,

    I am a heavy Twitter user,


    [/QUOTE]


    despite,

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I use Twitter a lot - I am probably a typical Twitter user.

    If Musk lets Trump back in, Iím out of there.
    You have no standing or moral high ground to disrespect anyone given your duplicitous comments.

  21. #7231
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    One does not have to look very far, it would appear.




    despite,



    You have no standing or moral high ground to disrespect anyone given your duplicitous comments.
    I bet you didn't play well with other children.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  22. #7232
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Fleeing Russia could be a protest or it could be simply self interest on the part of somebody who doesn't want to go fight - that is the fleeing person might care, or not, what happens to their country, Ukraine, or the world as long as they are safe right now. If most of these men, once out of Russia, spend part of their time speaking out against the regime and the war or otherwise working to promote peace, then that would be more of a protest. If they just fine ways of getting jobs and living under the radar, then it looks to me more like self interest.

  23. #7233
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    One does not have to look very far, it would appear.

    [/QUOTE}


    despite,



    You have no standing or moral high ground to disrespect anyone given your duplicitous comments.
    Learn how to proofread your posts.
    Then read and think about my tag line.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  24. #7234
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    You have no standing or moral high ground to disrespect anyone given your duplicitous comments.
    Ah, Vadim.

    Ignore for you. And yet you could have been fun.

    Andy
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

  25. #7235
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    How to surrender.
    I think I'd rather be in the Russian army and surrender to Ukranian soldiers than be in the Ukranian army and surrender to Russian soldiers.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  26. #7236
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I think I'd rather be in the Russian army and surrender to Ukranian soldiers than be in the Ukranian army and surrender to Russian soldiers.
    As they say, that is a given.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  27. #7237
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ..... gypsies nitpick.
    Huh?

    Nitpick?

    Japan were bombed into capitulation. Whatever other niche theories are out there, it is an accepted historical truth. Sure there was more than one thing happening at the time, it was a world war, and the bombs may well have been the final (very big) straw - but they were, beyond doubt, material in the decision.

    The Chechen resistance faded away after Grozny, likewise the Syrian after Aleppo. They were 'bombed' by artillery. Were sieges the 'bombing citizens' of the mediaeval world? The statement that bombing or otherwise killing and making life unbearable for citizens does not bring victory, is not true. Infact, I would guess that in the sweep of history, where a citizenry has been killed/bombed/starved and yet ultimately prevailed is possibly the exception. That is not a nitpick.

    To say that when attacking citizens has worked but doesn't count because of the specifics of the means used, is nitpicking. Carving out exceptions in order to not shatter your beliefs is called cognitive dissonance.
    Last edited by gypsie; 11-29-2022 at 10:12 PM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  28. #7238
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    How could you say that? There was posts here complaining about the regimes violent clamp down on protesters in Moscow and other cities, did you not see that on your news, or has the Murdoch press been hiding that also?

    How is tens of thousands of draft age men leaving Russia "not a protest"?

    Fear yes, when you can be disappeared with little to no consequence.

    You have the good fortune to live in a place where you can voice your opinion freely, are the North Koreans spineless too?
    In a country of 140 million? the fact that a few thousand protest is not particularly inspiring. Statistically about 4,000,000 Russians believe the world is flat (based on an average of 3% globally). I'm sure you get where I'm going with that.

    Running for your life can be a protest, I suppose, in retrospect. But protesting is not what they are doing.

    Russia and NK are not apples with apples. In the 1990's and early 2000's, the Russians also lived in a country where they could express themselves freely, but they gave it away like it was of no consequence. Its hard to sympathise with that.

    Do you think the Chinese live in a freer country?

    Thats how I can say it.
    Last edited by gypsie; 11-30-2022 at 12:15 AM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  29. #7239
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  30. #7240
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Diana Johnstone saw it all coming eight years back . . .

    If this does not lead you to ask some serious questions, then you are likely situated somewhere beyond the event horizon.

    https://peaceandplanetnews.org/ukraine-iron-curtain/


  31. #7241
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    In a country of 140 million? the fact that a few thousand protest is not particularly inspiring.
    The world does not function around what you find inspiring.



    Statistically about 4,000,000 Russians believe the world is flat (based on an average of 3% globally). I'm sure you get where I'm going with that.
    No, not at all. On a percentage basis per capita its the same in Australia.

    Running for your life can be a protest, I suppose, in retrospect. But protesting is not what they are doing.
    Again, your own view. Some people would say a bunch of Hong Kongers with umbrellas is not a protest either.

    Russia and NK are not apples with apples.
    No, so why judge an entire nation from your Australian perspective?

    In the 1990's and early 2000's, the Russians also lived in a country where they could express themselves freely, but they gave it away like it was of no consequence.
    Was you there? What exactly did they have that you believe they knew they would lose? How did you know they would have something to lose and why? Did you try to warn anyone, did you protest?


    Its hard to sympathise with that.
    Life in retrospect is always easy. How many of your previous governments would you not vote into power, knowing what you know now?

    Do you think the Chinese live in a freer country?
    Freer compared to Russia? No.

    Thats how I can say it.
    Its a point of view, does not mean its right.

  32. #7242
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth Jones View Post
    Fleeing Russia could be a protest or it could be simply self interest on the part of somebody who doesn't want to go fight - that is the fleeing person might care, or not, what happens to their country, Ukraine, or the world as long as they are safe right now. If most of these men, once out of Russia, spend part of their time speaking out against the regime and the war or otherwise working to promote peace, then that would be more of a protest.
    Not every Russian speaker is going to post a video on youtube in English. There is protest out there, you may just be unaware if its in a language you do not understand.

    If they just fine ways of getting jobs and living under the radar, then it looks to me more like self interest.
    Putting yourself first before the needs of the State is a form of protest.

  33. #7243
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, November 29.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-november-29

    Key Takeaways

    • Russian forces made marginal gains around Bakhmut on November 29, but Russian forces remain unlikely to have advanced at the tempo that Russian sources claimed.
    • The United Kingdom Ministry of Defense (MoD) reported that Russian forces have likely stopped deploying battalion tactical groups (BTGs) in the past three months, supporting ISW’s prior assessments.
    • Russian forces continued to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations around Svatove as Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations around Svatove and Kreminna.
    • Russian forces continued limited ground attacks west of Kreminna to regain lost positions.
    • Russian forces conducted ground attacks near Siversk and Avdiivka, and in western Donetsk Oblast.
    • Russian forces continued strengthening defensive positions in eastern Kherson Oblast as Ukrainian forces continued striking Russian force concentrations in southern Ukraine.
    • Russian forces continued to struggle with outdated equipment and domestic personnel shortages amid official actions indicative of a probable second wave of mobilization.
    • An independent investigation found that Russia may have transported thousands of Ukrainian prisoners from penal colonies in occupied Ukraine to Russia following the withdrawal from the west bank of Kherson Oblast.

  34. #7244
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    Default

    Please.

    https://peaceandplanetnews.org/ukraine-iron-curtain/

    NATO leaders are currently acting out a deliberate charade in Europe, designed to reconstruct an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West.

    With astonishing unanimity, NATO leaders feign surprise at events they planned months in advance. Events that they deliberately triggered are being misrepresented as sudden, astonishing, unjustified “Russian aggression.” The United States and the European Union undertook an aggressive provocation in Ukraine that they knew would force Russia to react defensively, one way or another.

    As Victoria Nuland boasted in Washington, since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the United States has spent $5 billion to gain political influence in Ukraine (this is called “promoting democracy&rdquo.They could not be sure exactly how Russian president Vladimir Putin would react when he saw that the United States was manipulating political conflict in Ukraine to install a pro-Western government intent on joining NATO. This was not a mere matter of a “sphere of influence” in Russia’s “near abroad,” but a matter of life and death to the Russian Navy, as well as a grave national security threat on Russia’s border.

    A trap was thereby set for Putin. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. He could underreact, and betray Russia’s basic national interests, allowing NATO to advance its hostile forces to an ideal attack position.
    ROTFLMAO

    The people of Ukraine have wanted to jump in NATO ever since the Soviet Union imploded, as a matter of Ukrainian survival.

    NATO is a mutual defence treaty, not some sort of independent political entity.

    And the member nations of NATO (or "the West") have roughly zero interest in "reconstructing an Iron Curtain between Russia and the West". It would better serve our/NATO's/EU's/ interests, as well as the interests of any nations not run by certifiable nut jobs, to integrate Russia into the body politic rather than isolating it.

    Yes, we did a crappy job of integrating Russia into the polity of nations, but to ascribe Russia's own failings and greed to any other than themselves is incorrect, to say the least. That fault lies with them selves. Nobody but Russia installed a fascist nutter (patently obvious at the time), and nobody, but Russia allowed him to effective make the Dumas a rubber stamp, and to effectively convert the government into a dictatorship.

    The West failed Russia in bringing her out of the void, and failed Ukraine in protecting her from Russia. Now the piper is due his pay.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. ó P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  35. #7245
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post

    Japan were bombed into capitulation. Whatever other niche theories are out there, it is an accepted historical truth.
    No it isn't. It's just one of the niche theories.

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