Ukraine

[heimlaga]

Now I am just speculating but to me it seems a bit like the ground is starting to tremor under old emperor Vladimir.
We should remember that the happy childhood the old man is looking back at and wants to recreate is the privileged life of the head cooks's son at the court of emperor Stalin where palace intrigues made every day uncertain and the whole population was terrorised to the point that society as a whole and the functions of everyday life collapsed in some areas and were only millimetres from a collapse elsewhere. All while the elite among whom emperor Vladimir grew up lived in luxury with unlimited power and unlimited resources at hand.
We all know that as Russians are trained since early childhood to believe in the official truths and not stick out there can be thoughts and doubts growing under the surface and unrest brewng while nothing is really visible on the surface. Everybody keeps his thoughts to himself until it reaches a breaking point. Quite the opposite to the civil unrest in USA which is violent on the surface while the whole idea of changing political and ideological standpoints at depth is unthinkable.

In this situation the old emperor is likely to respond with the tool he took for granted and normal during his upbringing. Terrorizing the Russian population. Executing a few million innocent Russians and letting a few million more starve to death is the time honored way of consolidating power in Russia. Why change a winning concept?

I am just speculating but it might well be that the emperor of China is feeling the tremors and realizes that if Russia goes into it's traditional self destruction mode it will be impossible to uphold the export industries, that is timber and oil and various ores and metals that China is dependent upon. Starving loggers don't cut down any trees. A broken down transport network doesn't ship any ores and dead miners don't dig any.
One possible reaction to that would be to send weapons to help Putin Win the Ukraine war and restore some sort of superficial legitimacy to the Putin regieme so that export can keep flowing.

Just a speculation........

[Canoeyawl]

The head of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group has said Moscow’s military chiefs are refusing to supply the group with munitions and are seeking to destroy it, accusing them of “treason,” in an escalation of the war of words between senior Russian officials and the private army boss.

I'm betting an apartment window will be accidentally left open

[Johan R]

[QUOTE=heimlaga;6807347] Suddenly it was all a matter of Nato agression. Putin had made up his mind and the required backstory had been manufactured. Unfortunately many foreigners who hadn't followed the background in real time started believing in this fake propaganda story./QUOTE]

What sand pit have you had your head buried in the last few decades? There are millions of people who have been on the receiving end of NATO country aggression and being being "bombed into democracy". Even MSM covered it. No war was ever declared, and no one has been held to account.

nato.jpg

Its precisely these past actions that give some legitimacy to the "NATO aggression" threat. No surprise Putin would attempt to use that as a base for his claims.

[heimlaga]

[QUOTE=Johan R;6807853]

Suddenly it was all a matter of Nato agression. Putin had made up his mind and the required backstory had been manufactured. Unfortunately many foreigners who hadn't followed the background in real time started believing in this fake propaganda story./QUOTE]

What sand pit have you had your head buried in the last few decades? There are millions of people who have been on the receiving end of NATO country aggression and being being "bombed into democracy". Even MSM covered it. No war was ever declared, and no one has been held to account.

nato.jpg

Its precisely these past actions that give some legitimacy to the "NATO aggression" threat. No surprise Putin would attempt to use that as a base for his claims.

You are a professional propagandist working for Putin&co and you illustrate this fabricated story perfectly with your post. Thank you for helping me show exactly what I mean.

[gypsie]

Sanctions against Russia have had virtually zero effect on their economy. Chinas economy is far more diverse, it will be hurt even less.

I am not convinced China will give arms to Russia, I think China values stability.
But I didn't think Russia would ever start a war like this either.

However, China kinda owes Russia one, Ru/China are partners against the Wests hegemony, China has eyes on Taiwan and a depleted USA is betterer, even if only slightly depleted. (Eleven carrier groups will take a lot of depletion!)

[birlinn]

[QUOTE=Johan R;6807853]

Suddenly it was all a matter of Nato agression. Putin had made up his mind and the required backstory had been manufactured. Unfortunately many foreigners who hadn't followed the background in real time started believing in this fake propaganda story./QUOTE]

What sand pit have you had your head buried in the last few decades? There are millions of people who have been on the receiving end of NATO country aggression and being being "bombed into democracy". Even MSM covered it. No war was ever declared, and no one has been held to account.

nato.jpg

Its precisely these past actions that give some legitimacy to the "NATO aggression" threat. No surprise Putin would attempt to use that as a base for his claims.

The US may have been involved in all of those, but was NATO?

[George.]

China's "top diplomat" is in Moskva meeting with Lavrov.

Perhaps Blinken had a point.

Perhaps this was behind even the balloon farce.

[Johan R]

[QUOTE=birlinn;6807859]

The US may have been involved in all of those, but was NATO?

Really? NATO bombing in former Yugoslavia and the demolition of Libya. NATO countries involved in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria.

There was a UN mandate for NATO to intervene, but that is beyond the commonly thrown out suggestion that "NATO is a defensive organisation only".

No NATO member was at risk from the problems in Libya or Yugoslavia.

[Johan R]

[QUOTE=heimlaga;6807854]

You are a professional propagandist working for Putin&co and you illustrate this fabricated story perfectly with your post. Thank you for helping me show exactly what I mean.

No, you are wrong, again. And nothing fabricated in my post. NATO and NATO countries have been involved over the decades, of aggression in the ME and Africa. You may be better informed if you broaden your news sources, but you seem to prefer your very own narrow minded view that is nothing close to reality.

Where was you when NATO was bombing Yugoslavia and Libya? Millions of other people saw it, are they paid Putin propagandists too?

[Johan R]

Sanctions against Russia have had virtually zero effect on their economy.

Since the EU started with sanctions back in 2014, the only losers economically was the EU. I suppose most people will be surprised that Moscow is still paying Kyiv transit fees for oil still coming into the EU via a pipeline.

I read that "the Russian economy will really take a hit due to sanctions in 2024", but im left asking myself, what the past 9 years has accomplished. Russia is not Iran or Cuba.......pretty clear sanctions do not work and only creates more support for the one shouting "they are trying to destroy us".

[dutchpp]

A large crowd gathered in Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukraine to watch the speech of the little Tzar.
The rally was successful, just one minor problem, a significant part of the spectators sh.t on the great leaders face, that must have been a peristaltic reflex.
putins toespraak.jpg

[AdB]

A large crowd gathered in Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukraine to watch the speech of the little Tzar.
The rally was successful, just one minor problem, a significant part of the spectators sh.t on the great leaders face, that must be a peristaltic reflex.

Pigeon drones doing practice runs. 😋
https://pigeonsarentreal.co.uk/

[heimlaga]

Since the EU started with sanctions back in 2014, the only losers economically was the EU. I suppose most people will be surprised that Moscow is still paying Kyiv transit fees for oil still coming into the EU via a pipeline.

I read that "the Russian economy will really take a hit due to sanctions in 2024", but im left asking myself, what the past 9 years has accomplished. Russia is not Iran or Cuba.......pretty clear sanctions do not work and only creates more support for the one shouting "they are trying to destroy us".

This was one of the first real signs that sanctions are starting to bite. The professional propagandist was told in his morning breafing that his job is to try to convince us that the senctions don't work in order to make us remove them. If they had no effect your boss would not be so eager to have them removed. Thanks again!

[heimlaga]

[QUOTE=Johan R;6807870]

No, you are wrong, again. And nothing fabricated in my post. NATO and NATO countries have been involved over the decades, of aggression in the ME and Africa. You may be better informed if you broaden your news sources, but you seem to prefer your very own narrow minded view that is nothing close to reality.

Where was you when NATO was bombing Yugoslavia and Libya? Millions of other people saw it, are they paid Putin propagandists too?

Nato has done plenty of stupid things but only in late summer of 2022 Nato "agression" suddenly became the standard theme of Russcist export propaganda. Which you illustrated.
By now it is clear that you and your "friend" Vadim have never lived in Sweden and that you in all likelyhood are one and the same person under fake identities. A professional Russian pro-Putin propagandist.

[Johan R]

[QUOTE=heimlaga;6807906]

A professional Russian pro-Putin propagandist.

Yeah.....right.

right.jpg

[Peerie Maa]

I wish you folks would take the time to proofread what you post. Sloppy editing has made the last posts chaotic.

[JimD]

What sand pit have you had your head buried in the last few decades? There are millions of people who have been on the receiving end of NATO country aggression and being being "bombed into democracy". Even MSM covered it. No war was ever declared, and no one has been held to account.

nato.jpg

Its precisely these past actions that give some legitimacy to the "NATO aggression" threat. No surprise Putin would attempt to use that as a base for his claims.

One interpretation of the pattern of US/Western aggression around the globe is that for over a century the USA, sometimes with the collusion of its allies, has been busy bombing the hell out of half the planet. Yet this aggression has never been directly against Russian soil in any of Russia's political iterations. One could conclude that this ought to be reassuring to Putin, and not threatening.

[George Jung]

Propagandists aren't looking for such reassurances, I assure you.

Putin desperately wants to reconstitute the USSR.

[Johan R]

. Yet this aggression has never been directly against Russian soil in any of Russia's political iterations. One could conclude that this ought to be reassuring to Putin, and not threatening.

I believe the paranoia stems from having NATO friendly countries on Russian borders and the possible reduction of flight times for incoming missiles and higher probability of taking down any Russian outgoing response.

If its true there is a Russian nuclear armed submarines off of both East and West coasts of mainland USA, the Mutually Assured Destruction is probably still a likely outcome. No winners, just losers.

[JimD]

I believe the paranoia stems from having NATO friendly countries on Russian borders and the possible reduction of flight times for incoming missiles and higher probability of taking down any Russian outgoing response.

If its true there is a Russian nuclear armed submarines off of both East and West coasts of mainland USA, the Mutually Assured Destruction is probably still a likely outcome. No winners, just losers.

Why would Putin reasonably fear incoming when the pattern of US military activity clearly demonstrates otherwise? For over 200 years the only incoming has come from Germany, and the USA worked with the USSR to crush the German regime responsible for that.

[Peerie Maa]

If its true there is a Russian nuclear armed submarines off of both East and West coasts of mainland USA, the Mutually Assured Destruction is probably still a likely outcome.

Which is why we maintain Continuously At Sea Deterrents. So that nuclear armed dictators know not to use their nuclear arsenal. Ironically, it was the understanding of the Chicxulub impact event that convinced the nuclear powers that it would be mutually assured destruction, which led to treaties and a reduction of the inventory.

[LeeG]

One interpretation of the pattern of US/Western aggression around the globe is that for over a century the USA, sometimes with the collusion of its allies, has been busy bombing the hell out of half the planet. Yet this aggression has never been directly against Russian soil in any of Russia's political iterations. One could conclude that this ought to be reassuring to Putin, and not threatening.

Or that having a huge nuclear arsenal inhibits direct attacks.

[JimD]

Or that having a huge nuclear arsenal inhibits direct attacks.

An existentially important reason why the West will continue to respect the legitimate territorial boundaries of Russia.

[sandtown]

[QUOTE=heimlaga;6807854]

You are a professional propagandist working for Putin&co and you illustrate this fabricated story perfectly with your post. Thank you for helping me show exactly what I mean.

Do "professional propagandists" tell the truth ??

Stop attacking people who post inconvenient, politically incorrect, facts.

[birlinn]

We don't attack facts, sandy!

Very few come from Moscow.

[skuthorp]

Seems that Putin and Xi have agreed on 'strategic cooperation' or some such……...

[heimlaga]

Do "professional propagandists" tell the truth ??

Stop attacking people who post inconvenient, politically incorrect, facts.

So far almost all Vadim-Johan's claims that I have been able to doublecheck have proven completely false.
On the other hand they coincide in almost every detail with the pro-war propaganda spread by the Russian government. It spills over the border to us so it is easy to recognize.
His identity has also been found to be false not just once but twice.

If I did go to Russia and spread the worst sort of American pro-war and pro- world dominance propaganda there it wouldn't make me neither an independent source of information nor someone telling inconvenient facts. It would certainly be inconvenient enough to pack me away to a prison camp in Siberia on a 20 year sentence but it would not be the truth however inconvenient.
Neither is Johan-Vadim telling the truth when he spreads inconvenient Russcist pro-war pro-conquest propaganda in America.

If we are to stop this from going completely out of hand and turn into either organized mass murders on millions of civilians or a full blown nuclear word war we must look for and try to understand the real complete truth which is never to be found in Russcist propaganda.

[sandtown]

[QUOTE=heimlaga;6807906]

Nato has done plenty of stupid things but only in late summer of 2022 Nato "agression" suddenly became the standard theme of Russcist export propaganda. t.

So all the millions of us who have objected to NATO aggression, esp. in Iraq, for the last twenty years . . .

are now no longer permitted to believe or say that because Russia now says it??

And if we do have the temerity to do so, we have suddenly become "professional Russian propagandists"?

That makes zero sense . . . bigly

[sandtown]

The UN Security Council hears from Jeff Sachs and Ray McGovern on Nordstream . .

their testimony begins around minute three and ends at 32:00

Ray is a stalwart of the Vets For Peace advisory board.

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/02/2...stream-attack/

[WX]

[QUOTE=sandtown;6808228]

So all the millions of us who have objected to NATO aggression, esp. in Iraq, for the last twenty years . . .

are now no longer permitted to believe or say that because Russia now says it??

And if we do have the temerity to do so, we have suddenly become "professional Russian propagandists"?

That makes zero sense . . . bigly

Whatever the US or NATO ( or for that matter any number of other countries) has done in the past does not make what Russia is doing, right.
Many of us objected to what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan, and, many other places...in the same way we are objecting to what is happening in Ukraine.

[gypsie]

20 years of Nato aggression in Iraq? You sure? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

I don't think even Sandy and the other fella assert that Putin didn't try to take over all of Ukraine (its no stretch to chuck Moldova into that mix).
There's chatter that he's got an evil eye on Belarus now too.

If both these were/are successful, Putin's western border will be almost entirely with Nato.

Finland only has to sign on the dotted line.

If Nato is the bad guy in all this - why does Putin want to get so close to it?
(John W has been pointing it out regularly.)

[Landrith]

20 years of Nato aggression in Iraq? You sure? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

I don't think even Sandy and the other fella assert that Putin didn't try to take over all of Ukraine (its no stretch to chuck Moldova into that mix).

I noticed that in the Bilge we speak of Moldova as a single Western friendly nation ( where the even more beautiful women have come from...), In actuality, the part near Ukraine is pretty much its own nation that is critical of Putin for being too Western...TRANSNISTRIA, the Country Still Living in the Soviet Union (Between Moldova & Ukraine)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWhUxz068c. Moldova’s frozen conflict with Russian-backed breakaway region Transnistria - BBC Newsnight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7RRJhhAEfk

[dutchpp]

The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, February 22.
https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...bruary-22-2023

Key Takeaways

• Russian President Vladimir Putin revived his imperialistic narrative that Russia is fighting for Russia's "historic frontiers" on February 22, a narrative that he had similarly voiced in his speech before the re-invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022.
• Putin's speech also followed his February 21 decree revoking his May 2012 edict on Russia's position toward Moldovan territorial integrity.
• Ukrainian intelligence officials continue to assess that Russia lacks the combat power and resources necessary to sustain its new offensive operations in Ukraine.
• Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin directly accused the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) of mistreating Wagner forces, igniting intense backlash in the information space and supporting ISW's prior assessments of a growing Wagner-MoD fissure.
• US State Department Spokesperson Ned Price stated that the US government is concerned about the potential strengthening of Russia-China relations.
• Russian forces are likely attempting to increase the tempo of their offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Lyman line.
• Some Russian sources refuted other Russian claims about the intensification of offensive operations in western Luhansk Oblast.
• Russian forces continued to conduct ground attacks throughout the Donetsk Oblast front line and secured marginal territorial gains around Bakhmut.
• Russian and occupation authorities continue to publicly indicate that Russian forces are focusing on defensive operations in east (left) bank Kherson Oblast and Crimea.
• US intelligence officials stated that Russian President Vladimir Putin may mobilize significantly more Russian personnel.

[dutchpp]

I noticed that in the Bilge we speak of Moldova as a single Western friendly nation ( where the even more beautiful women have come from...), In actuality, the part near Ukraine is pretty much its own nation that is critical of Putin for being too Western...TRANSNISTRIA, the Country Still Living in the Soviet Union (Between Moldova & Ukraine)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuWhUxz068c. Moldova’s frozen conflict with Russian-backed breakaway region Transnistria - BBC Newsnight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7RRJhhAEfk

Officially Transnistria is part of Moldavia, it's not an independent country. Transnistria declared singlehandedly its independence in the 1990's and spoke out to be part of the Soviet Union ( sounds familiar?).
It's a small stretch of land at the eastern boundary of Moldavia, next tot Ukraine.
It's approximately 100 km 's long and 15 km's wide. Approximately 1500 Russian soldiers "guard" the interests of the Russian loving population ( the love is actually not that intense).
For more Google it.
transnistrie.jpg

[Landrith]

We also talk here about Belarus being a potential Russian vassal when in fact, the USA color revolution there failed 15 Aug, 2020 Belarus’ Lukashenko says he is being targeted by ‘color revolution’, seeks to join forces with Putin https://www.rt.com/news/498101-lukas...v9ma9176061401 and Belarus government had to turn to Russia to protect their leadership from Uncle Sam. That is why we fear the big final phase as being a major offensive down from Belarus cutting NATO from continuing to supply Ukraine forces in the East.