Ukraine

[WX]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64470092

Mr Yefremov describes how the colonel gave orders that the Ukrainians shouldn't be given normal food - only water and crackers. But he says: "We tried to give them hot tea and cigarettes."


So that the prisoners didn't sleep on bare ground, Mr Yefremov also recalls how his men tossed them hay - "at night, so that no-one saw us".


During another interrogation, Mr Yefremov says the colonel shot a prisoner in the arm - and in the right leg under the knee, which hit the bone. Konstantin says his men bandaged the prisoner up and went to the Russian commanders - "not to the Colonel, he was crazy" - and said the prisoner needed to go to hospital, otherwise he would die from blood loss.


"We dressed him up in a Russian uniform and took him to hospital. We told him: 'Don't say you're a Ukrainian prisoner of war, because either the doctors will refuse to treat you, or the injured Russian soldiers will hear and shoot you and we won't be able to stop them."

[Johan R]

Originally Posted by Johan RApart from the fact it was blown from inside the pipe?

What evidence have you seen?

I never said that, and whoever C+P that comment to make it appear I did, is not worth wasting time with.

WX, made the comment. He has not seen any evidence. He read an article. I read an article about a US ship in the area and all night US military helicopter flights that were confirmed via flight radar, the day before the explosion. I am not claiming it as evidence.

But if you want to look at means,ability and motive, for a country that passed the Helium Act in 1925, circumstantial evidence is strong.

[lupussonic]

My apologies Johan R. I really don't know how that quote came to have your name on it. I was quoting WX. #9281.

Why his quote has your name on it is anyone's guess.

[heimlaga]

I never said that, and whoever C+P that comment to make it appear I did, is not worth wasting time with.

WX, made the comment. He has not seen any evidence. He read an article. I read an article about a US ship in the area and all night US military helicopter flights that were confirmed via flight radar, the day before the explosion. I am not claiming it as evidence.

But if you want to look at means,ability and motive, for a country that passed the Helium Act in 1925, circumstantial evidence is strong.

Cirkumstantial evidence is very weak for anything but the Russian navy. The country which politically benefited from the explosions is Russia. Experts age that the sabotage was made by someone with the resources that only a state with a navy has. A Russian sea going tug was sighted in the area and nobody could figure out what is was doing there. To my knowledge most of the flights were undertaken to keep an eye on that tug.

[Peerie Maa]

My apologies Johan R. I really don't know how that quote came to have your name on it. I was quoting WX. #9281.

Why his quote has your name on it is anyone's guess.

Oh, oh, oh! Let me guess.
Crappy editing where the closing [/quote] was deleted, and a lack of proof reading using "Go Advanced".
It can happen when you quote a post that already has the problem.

There is a sequence of posts with this problem.

[lupussonic]

No Nick, from memory I only quoted WX . Look up and you will see his quote #9281 has Johan R Infront of it. ACB's quote of 9281 is the same.

[Johan R]

Cirkumstantial evidence is very weak for anything but the Russian navy.

No, it is not.

Experts age that the sabotage was made by someone with the resources that only a state with a navy has.

Yes. Lots of those in the EU.

A Russian sea going tug was sighted in the area and nobody could figure out what is was doing there.

Not accurate......""A Danish military official said that Russian vessels regularly operated in the area""

To my knowledge most of the flights were undertaken to keep an eye on that tug

As usual, your "knowledge", is based on your own speculation and not any evidence.

[Peerie Maa]

No Nick, from memory I only quoted WX . Look up and you will see his quote #9281 has Johan R Infront of it. ACB's quote of 9281 is the same.

I did look. They all have formatting errors.
Try quoting any of them and see what happens.

[Johan R]

My apologies Johan R. I really don't know how that quote came to have your name on it. I was quoting WX. #9281.

Why his quote has your name on it is anyone's guess.

No need for an apology, it was not your doing and easily misunderstood to be attributed to me.

[heimlaga]

No, it is not.



Yes. Lots of those in the EU.



Not accurate......""A Danish military official said that Russian vessels regularly operated in the area""



As usual, your "knowledge", is based on your own speculation and not any evidence.

What evidence do you have?
What your foreman at the propaganda office hands out to you doesn't count as evidence. Neither do other Russian propagandists.

Independent sightings reported through independent journalism does apparently not count in your oppinion. There were some independent sightings too. You apparently only know the exact wording in the English translation of the Danish navy press release and that's it. Then you taylor your story to fit. Just like a professional propagandist without independent knowledge would do.

[CollinR]

Johan R is really earning his money today, the last nine posts are brilliant diversions from WX's copy from the BBC, about a Russian officer defecting, and giving eye-witness accounts of normalised torture of Ukrainian prisoners. Well done Johan!

The rest of the BBC article deals with the Russians attempts to resign his commission, and avoid being jailed for it.

What sane person would want to live in a regime like that?

Johan, the question above is directed to you.

[George.]

You have to feel sorry for most of the Russian people:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/01/e...cmd/index.html

The Wagner way of war is to send a first wave of attackers that mainly comprises raw recruits straight out of Russian prisons. They know little of military tactics and are poorly equipped. Most just hope that if they survive their six-month contract they can go home rather than back to a cell

Another group follows, he says, to claim another 30 meters. “That’s how, step by step, (Wagner) is trying to move forward, while they lose a lot of people in the meantime.”
Only when the first wave is exhausted or cut down do Wagner send in more experienced combatants, often from the flanks, in an effort to overrun Ukrainian positions.
Andriy says facing the assault was a frightening and surreal experience.
“Our machine gunner was almost getting crazy, because he was shooting at them. And he said, I know I shot him, but he doesn’t fall. And then after some time, when he maybe bleeds out, so he just falls down.”
Andriy compares the battle to a scene out of a zombie movie. “They’re climbing above the corpse of their friends, stepping on them,” he says.
“It looks like it’s very, very likely that they are getting some drugs before attack,” he says, a claim that CNN has not been able independently to verify.

[Johan R]

What evidence do you have?

As much as you. None. Only circumstantial.

What your foreman at the propaganda office hands out to you doesn't count as evidence. Neither do other Russian propagandists.

Every time you post that harassment, makes you just look stupid.

Independent sightings reported through independent journalism does apparently not count in your oppinion.

Of course it does. Do you know the difference between independent and propaganda? You appear not to.

There were some independent sightings too.

Yes there was. You seem to want to suggest that the people on Bornholm who reported overnight helicopter activity, as liars?

US military aircraft circled Nord Stream incident site in September | Al Mayadeen English

You apparently only know the exact wording in the English translation of the Danish navy press release and that's it

.

Actually the entire article was written in English, the only relevant bit was to dispute your comment that people did not understand why it was there. I do not have a rational explanation why you are here either, so what?.

Then you taylor your story to fit. Just like a professional propagandist without independent knowledge would do

.

Its called trying to explain it so a non-English speaker/reader might be able to understand. It is beginning to look like my attempts to help you just end in your insults and lies, but perhaps expected from one treated like a mushroom, kept in the dark and spoon fed s**t. It no doubt effects your ability to see reality for what it is.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Stefan Korshak’s column for today:

https://medium.com/@Stefan.Korshak/f...g-1658f256bf71

[George.]

This is an interesting detailed analysis. Russia is very much fighting like the Red Army in WW2.

I submit that in WW2 they had Lend-Lease, while this time their opponent does, so it might not work as well this time around.

https://nipp.org/information_series/...bruary-2-2023/

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The only thing that worries me - and it does worry me - is the possibility that Russian attempts to get China to help them in Ukraine might succeed. I mean with equipment and munitions, not with armed force.

[George.]

China would reinforce failure?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

China would reinforce failure?

China could supply Russia on a “Lend-Lease” scale. The “main event” planned for 2023 according to the Chinese Government will be an official visit to Russia by Xi JinPing. No date mentioned.

[Canoez]

It makes me wonder what the repercussions for China from the wider world could be if they choose to do something like that.

I would also think it would go against China's stance in regard to not interfering in other nation's business - which Russia is obviously doing in violation of the UN Charter.

[George.]

I can't see China doing that except as a prelude (and diversion) to invading Taiwan. Otherwise they would bear much of the cost without any benefits.

[Tom Hunter]

I can't see China doing that except as a prelude (and diversion) to invading Taiwan. Otherwise they would bear much of the cost without any benefits.

George I think your prediction of the future is likely to come true. However one thing this war has taught us is highly centralized political systems can make decisions that have great cost and no benefit and then stick to them. China supporting Russia would make the situation much worse, and increase the chance of everyone in China dying from a nuclear war. (Putin could kill everyone on earth by using his nuclear arsenal on his own country, he does not need to attack anyone else). One would think this would cause Xi to back off, and yet he is still engaged. Not fully supporting, but engaged none the less.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

^ What Tom says!^

I don’t think that China will commit its armed forces at this point. If Russia were threatened with invasion - there is a precedent.

I don’t think that supplying military aid to Russia would have economic consequences for China.

[dutchpp]

The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, February 2.
https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ebruary-2-2023

Key Takeaways

• A Ukrainian intelligence official stated that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian military to capture Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts by March 2023, supporting ISW’s most likely course of action assessment (MLCOA) for a Russian offensive in eastern Ukraine.
• Russian authorities blocked internet cell service in occupied Luhansk Oblast likely as part of an effort to intensify operational security to conceal new Russian force deployments in Luhansk Oblast.
• Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov supported ISW’s MLCOA assessment and possibly suggested that Russian forces have mobilized substantially more personnel for an imminent offensive.
• Russian officials are continuing efforts to frame the war in Ukraine as an existential threat to Russian audiences in order to set information conditions for protracted war and maintain domestic support for continued military operations. These efforts on the part of Russian officials are not succeeding in generating the likely desired effect of motivating Russians to want to participate in the war, however.
• Russian and Ukrainian sources suggested that Russian forces may be preparing offensive actions in the Svatove area.
• Russian forces intensified ground attacks in the Kreminna area on February 2.
• Russian forces continued ground attacks northeast and southwest of Bakhmut.
• Russian officials are likely trying to prepare the Russian military’s disciplinary apparatus for an influx of mobilized personnel.
• Russian forces and occupation authorities continue efforts to identify and arrest Crimean Tatars on allegations that they associate with extremist movements banned in Russia.
• Russian federal subjects and occupation authorities continued announcing patronage programs to support infrastructure projects in occupied territories.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

[Garret]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Maybe talks could start to get the UK into the EU as well!

Maybe that's just crazy talk...

[C. Ross]

I don’t think that supplying military aid to Russia would have economic consequences for China.

What if the EU and US applied the same sanctions to China which they have to Russia?

[sandtown]

Maybe talks could start to

Just keep them all away from Victoria Nuland.

[Paul Pless]

What if the EU and US applied the same sanctions to China which they have to Russia?

the same half hearted sanctions?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

What if the EU and US applied the same sanctions to China which they have to Russia?

Russia has invaded a sovereign state.

I don’t foresee China doing that; I was just wondering what it would take for China to supply arms to Russia.

[CollinR]

Andrew,

I reckon money, oil or gas would do it, and failing them, a boost to China's world power.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

China and India are buying oil from Russia. There is a long established gas pipeline from Siberia to China but it doesn’t connect with the main Russian gas fields which are near the transcaucasian regions. China in fact has been buying Russian gas and re-exporting it to Europe.

[johnw]

China and India are buying oil from Russia. There is a long established gas pipeline from Siberia to China but it doesn’t connect with the main Russian gas fields which are near the transcaucasian regions. China in fact has been buying Russian gas and re-exporting it to Europe.

Which means Russia has to sell the stuff cheaply enough to make this possible. So the sanctions work to reduce Russian revenues without reducing total supplies.

[Nicholas Carey]

With respect to the Vadim/Johan/sock puppet/propagandist argument. . . .

Just out of curiosity, I did a little googling. According to the Humanitarian Data Exchange's dataset Aid Worker KIKA (Killed, Injured, Kidnapped or Arrested) Data at https://data.humdata.org/dataset/sin...er-kka-dataset, there have been no international aid workers injured in Ukraine so far, and just one international aid worker killed in Ukraine. That occurred 25 April 2022, in Zaporizhia Oblast at 47.839 N 35.141 E (+/- 25 km), in "open space" (rather than a building, say). No incident description is given. The victim was killed by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (natch) with a firearm. And the victim worked for a human rights NGO.

As far as other aid workers go, there have been, so far, none injured and just 4 killed in Ukraine, all by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation:

- 2 killed on 15 March 2022 in Donetsk Oblast at 47.096 N 37.550 E when "March 2022: An INGO building was destroyed and two female aid workers were killed when a Russian tank fired at the building."

- 1 killed on 8 April 2022 in Donetsk Oblast at 48.739 N 37.584 E when "April 2022: An NGO volunteer was killed in a train station attack while he was helping IDPs board evacuation trains." The means was "Aerial bombing, missiles, and shelling." The victim worked in "protection".

- 1 killed on 15 December 2022 in Kherson Oblast at 46.641 N 37.550 E when "15 December 2022: A volunteer health worker was killed when the NGO facility was hit by Russian shells." The victim worked for the Ukrainian Red Cross.

[skuthorp]

Russia has invaded a sovereign state.

I don’t foresee China doing that; I was just wondering what it would take for China to supply arms to Russia.

I do not see any plusses for China in that, but the Chines play the long game and may have other goals elsewhere in mind

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Actually I don’t think China or the Chinese play a long game. I think Deng XiaoPeng did, and told them to do so!