Ukraine

[Decourcy]

Here you go. Doubled down on his sick statement also.

I took that to mean Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

[George.]

Look what Putin did!

But whaddabout Dubya?

But whaddabout Beria?

But whaddabout Hitler?

But whaddabout Stalin?

But whaddabout Iraq?

But whaddabout Prague?

But whaddabout Afghanistan?

But whaddabout Afghanistan?

But whaddabout the Crimean War?

...

[Keith Wilson]

But whaddabout The European conquest of the the Americas?

But whaddabout Tamerlane?

But whaddabout The Mongol invasion of Europe?

But whaddabout the An Lushan rebellion?

But whaddabout the Babylonian sack of Nineveh?


(Lo, all our pomp of yesterday is one with Nineveh and Tyre . . . )

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

What does Putin now hope to achieve?

There is no known case of a civilian population bring bombed into surrendering.

Didn’t work with Britain, didn’t work with Germany, didn’t work with Japan, didn’t work with Vietnam, won’t work with Ukraine.

[gypsie]

I took that to mean Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

Me too.

[gypsie]

What does Putin now hope to achieve?

There is no known case of a civilian population bring bombed into surrendering.

Didn’t work with Britain, didn’t work with Germany, didn’t work with Japan, didn’t work with Vietnam, won’t work with Ukraine.

You sure that didn't work in Japan?

[Peerie Maa]

You sure that didn't work in Japan?

Firebombing the cities did not work. It required that cities be totally obliterated by one bomb each. Hardly the same.

[Vadim 68]

I took that to mean Russian soldiers in Ukraine.

Me too.

I was not the only one to comment on his post. He did not refute his words to what you think he meant, but doubled down. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

[L.W. Baxter]

I was not the only one to comment on his post. He did not refute his words to what you think he meant, but doubled down. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

he was provoked tho. that makes it your fault.

[Vadim 68]

he was provoked tho. that makes it your fault.

So if i unload a whole lot of homophobic tirades against a certain forum member, you are saying he bought it on himself?

You take the "pick a side or one will be chosen for you" far too seriously. You also defend people whom you would otherwise disagree with, how do you square that circle and sleep at night?

[L.W. Baxter]

it was irony. obviously.

"hate speech should not be tolerated", on a thread in which you can't bring yourself to say one negative word about a fascist state bent on, at the least imperialism, if not outright genocide, is too rich to simply let pass.

i had my say about the "kill them all" sentiment pages ago.

and i've had my say about the "russia was provoked" sentiment as well.

not much else to do but laugh at absurdity.

[LeeG]

It’s Turkey Day guys.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Angry Stefan Korshak:

https://medium.com/@Stefan.Korshak/n...t-89f6c91323b2

I think he’s right.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

Angry Stefan Korshak:

https://medium.com/@Stefan.Korshak/n...t-89f6c91323b2

I think he’s right.

Angry, or desperate. Ukraine has seen better days.
Perspectives for gear flowing into Ukraine had also been better than they are today. The weather, both for civilians and soldiers, ain't kind.
In his position, I'd have even more sleepless nights than a month ago

[Nicholas Carey]

Angry Stefan Korshak:

https://medium.com/@Stefan.Korshak/n...t-89f6c91323b2

I think he’s right.

Nobody has mentioned AWACS.

A single AWACS on station could track everything in the air in the entire theatre. And likely pick up the inbound missiles at launch.

[sandtown]

When anyone tries to discuss with him the substance of negotiations, Sandy pulls back into his shell. If he actually cared about negotiations, he'd be happy to discuss them. .

This gent has me on ignore, so this reply is not to him - but rather to clear the record.

He maligns me as being anti-US without knowing a thing about whether or not I pay my taxes, follow most-all US laws, served in Vietnam, raked fall leaves today, and narrowly averted a turkey coma.

He thinks he gets to decide who is a good Merrikan and who is politically correct.

I call major Bull Pucky on that.

All I have done here is to recommend negotiations - the same course of action as Joint Chiefs Chair Gen. Milley who favors "a strong push to seek a diplomatic solution"

Why am I a bad person for doing that ??

[gypsie]

Nobody has mentioned AWACS.

A single AWACS on station could track everything in the air in the entire theatre. And likely pick up the inbound missiles at launch.

I thought NATO was supplying that 'service' from Polish airspace.

[sandtown]

Nobody has mentioned AWACS..

It might bear repeating that the policy of the US is to not give Ukr sufficient weapons to win.

Have you processed that ?

[sandtown]

. Hate speech should not be tolerated.

As you suggest, the dehumanization of wartime opponents is a time-honored tradition, and an ugly fact that we see here on display on the Bilge . . .

If they can persuade people to fear and hate, they can make them do just about anything.

There is a whole literature on the subject . . . this is one . . .

https://www.worldwar1centennial.org/...-the-same.html

[JayInOz]

[QUOTE=sandtown

Have you processed that ?[/QUOTE]

You see sandbag, it's those nasty little add ons on so many of your posts that defines you as an arsehole, and not just a regular blowhard. I'm well aware that I'm also an arsehole, but I don't play the innocent victim when I'm called on it. JayInOz

[sandtown]

You see sandbag, it's those nasty little add ons on so many of your posts

Nothing but personal attacks from the feeble minded . . .

like y'all (how's that for an add-on ??) . . . .

[skuthorp]

It might bear repeating that the policy of the US is to not give Ukr sufficient weapons to win.

Have you processed that ?

More not to provoke (by cornering him/them) into starting a real war with NATO, rather than the proxy one in progress at present. But I do think that crunch time is coming and a decision, by both parties, will have to be made.
I do not include Ukraine as a party, they are the meat in the sandwich.


Re negotiations, that is up to Putin and he's not likely to take that particular bait. Ukraine has no real choice as any concession would not be honoured by Putin, only used to refit for another invasion.
But you know that.

[dutchpp]

Nobody has mentioned AWACS.

A single AWACS on station could track everything in the air in the entire theatre. And likely pick up the inbound missiles at launch.

There's permanent AWACS ( or alternative) coverage of the battlefield. They used to operate visible, by using their transponder, during the last few month's they operate invisible and under protection of fighters after an incident with a Russian fighter.

[Vadim 68]

As you suggest, the dehumanization of wartime opponents is a time-honored tradition, and an ugly fact that we see here on display on the Bilge . . .

If they can persuade people to fear and hate, they can make them do just about anything.l

Having seen the result of this "pick a side" brutality, I feel the need to point it out when others give a free pass to this kind of hate speech, just because he is considered to be on "your" side. You all become hate speech apologists. Perhaps the use of the phrase much used here, "if you are not vocally saying anything against, then you are a supporter", is apt?

Quite easy to see that anyone not bending to the majority view point is villified, and yet those who speak of irony, fail to see their own part.

[Landrith]

I really think Uncle Sam shares a lot of the guilt for this war. I wish our State Department and leadership had not publicly discussed it before Russia finally did invade. In some ways it looks in retrospect like HW Bush misleading Saddam Hussein over Kuwait. https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/09...addam-hussein/

[WX]

It might bear repeating that the policy of the US is to not give Ukr sufficient weapons to win.

Have you processed that ?

You act as if the US is the only country supporting Ukraine.

[George.]

Firebombing the cities did not work. It required that cities be totally obliterated by one bomb each. Hardly the same.

Japan didn't surrender because of the atomic bombs. They surrendered once the USSR attacked Manchuria and threatened to sweep the largest Japanese army into the sea, but only on the condition that they could keep the Emperor. The US agreed to the condition, after testing their new toys.

[WX]

Having seen the result of this "pick a side" brutality, I feel the need to point it out when others give a free pass to this kind of hate speech, just because he is considered to be on "your" side. You all become hate speech apologists. Perhaps the use of the phrase much used here, "if you are not vocally saying anything against, then you are a supporter", is apt?

Quite easy to see that anyone not bending to the majority view point is villified, and yet those who speak of irony, fail to see their own part.

I see a lot of discussion about the war, and yes the majority are biased towards Ukraine...after all, they are the ones who have been invaded. The Russians have committed appalling atrocities against the Ukrainians that have fallen under Russian control. I am sure that the majority of Russian civilians would be equally horrified if they were told the truth. Putin has the same regard for the average Russian as Hitler had for the average German...zero.

[George.]

From Korshak:

ZaporizhiaReports continue to mount that both sides are shifting reserves here and this could be the sector of the next big offensive. I think it’s worth noting we heard that about the Kherson sector for about three months, and then the Russians just left of their own accord.

[Peerie Maa]

Japan didn't surrender because of the atomic bombs. They surrendered once the USSR attacked Manchuria and threatened to sweep the largest Japanese army into the sea, but only on the condition that they could keep the Emperor. The US agreed to the condition, after testing their new toys.

Thanks for the additional info, and for supporting my rebuttal of gypsies nitpick.

[Vadim 68]

I see a lot of discussion about the war, and yes the majority are biased towards Ukraine...after all, they are the ones who have been invaded. The Russians have committed appalling atrocities against the Ukrainians that have fallen under Russian control. I am sure that the majority of Russian civilians would be equally horrified if they were told the truth. Putin has the same regard for the average Russian as Hitler had for the average German...zero.

I can assure you that many Russians who have access to outside news are indeed horrified. Governments can only spin so much BS before it hits critical mass, and it is nowhere near that yet.

Rumour has it Putin may step down for "health reasons", if that comes to pass, how the Duma deal with the recently annexed territory is another question. There are no shortage of hardliners willing to follow Putins ideas should they get into a position of power, finding a dealmaker will be problematic. Russian politics being what they are, people are not always vocal about their true position, given the amount of badly fitted windows.

[L.W. Baxter]

Having seen the result of this "pick a side" brutality, I feel the need to point it out when others give a free pass to this kind of hate speech, just because he is considered to be on "your" side. You all become hate speech apologists. Perhaps the use of the phrase much used here, "if you are not vocally saying anything against, then you are a supporter", is apt?

Quite easy to see that anyone not bending to the majority view point is villified, and yet those who speak of irony, fail to see their own part.

results are what matters.

dehumanizing rhetoric on one side, moral relativism on the other. one serves to fortify resolve in some part of the population. the other serves to confuse and weaken everybody but the aggressor, absolute in his conviction.

you can choose to think that all evil is of the same nature. but take your relativism all the way; poll people around the world, "which nation's army would you prefer to be occupied by?" or "where would you emigrate to, given the chance"? or any number of questions making relative comparisons.

then perhaps you can learn to render useful judgments after all.

[WszystekPoTrochu]

poll people around the world, "which nation's army would you prefer to be occupied by?"

The standard answer you'll get in central Europe is that nazi Germans were terrifying, but russians were much worse. I have yet to find an elderly that would claim the opposite

[ERGR]

I've not heard any horror stories regarding the occupation of Germany by the western allied armies. Of these, I'd expect the army with the best discipline to be the preferred occupier. My prejudice say that would be the British army.
/Erik

[Keith Wilson]

The standard answer you'll get in central Europe is that Nazi Germans were terrifying, but Russians were much worse.

Unless you were Jewish.