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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #7316
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    From Shakespeare via the Jamie thread

    "That struts and frets his hour upon the stage''

    Many of our political operators should keep this phrase in mind

  2. #7317
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Denis seems uncharacteristically deflated.
    Maybe watching the terror bombing from the outside is weighing on him, survivor guilt type thing.

    A couple of weeks ago it was Crimea by Christmas, now its peace talks and surrender the lost ground including Crimea.

    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  3. #7318
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    was it the case that most in japan did not know quickly that hiroshima and then nagasaki had been atom bombed?
    They knew pretty quick.
    Within an hour of Hiroshima they'd sent out a recon flight.
    If there was any doubt, 16 hours later Truman told the world, including Japan, exactly what happened. When Nagasaki was bombed they knew what it was immediately.
    There was no 3 day scratching of heads.

    Also Manchuria was not Japan, the US were standing on sacred Japanese turf at the time, and had swept through Japanese defenses for months - inexorably.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  4. #7319
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  5. #7320
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Such a small step, why so hard?

    ..if Ukraine gets GLSDB in substantial numbers, theoretically, it could make the entirety of all Russia-occupied territory in Ukraine, Crimea included, militarily untenable.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  6. #7321
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    To show support for Ukraine does not imply one is pro-war, and to state that is the case is at best disingenuous.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  7. #7322
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    They knew that something terrible had happened, but what? Something terrible had happened to lots of cities, some worse than Hiroshima. Was it really a single bomb? Did it really flatten the city? How to tell if all communications are cut off?

    Send someone with orders to come back and report. That takes time. Wiki says:



    So the confirmation that it was an atomic bomb probably got back to Tokyo on the 8th at best. Give them a couple of days to argue and for it to sink in? No, less than 24 hours, and then field commanders were deciding to drop the next bomb.

    That's not a timetable for someone who values Japanese surrender more than dropping the second bomb.

    Note also that the Japanese were willing to endure not only Hiroshima, but "one or two more bombs" - so Nagasaki didn't change their calculus. The Soviet invasion and getting to keep the Emperor did.
    See my earlier post. Trumanís orders in July 25 was to deliver all bombs. They did not bomb Hiroshima, wait, and decide to bomb Nagasaki. Both were authorized at once.

  8. #7323
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    actually, this position has been mine and that of many other alleged "pro-war" posters here since the argument started: .
    Bull-Pucky, then why is Milley an outcast among the Blobista Warrior Elite ??

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...tions-00066777

    Tell us all about how much you disagree with them . . .

    edit - I read the Politico article above. It is well done . . .

    This part stood out for me . .

    But Defense Department officials say the Kherson region is an example of the tough fighting that lies ahead. Fighting across the river to try to retake territory on the opposite bank is a difficult military maneuver.
    “Why not start talking about [peace talks] before you throw another 100,000 lives into the abyss?” the second U.S. official said.
    Last edited by sandtown; 12-02-2022 at 02:10 AM.

  9. #7324
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Bull-Pucky, then why is Milley an outcast among the Blobista Warrior Elite ??

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...tions-00066777

    Tell us all about how much you disagree with them . . .

    edit - I read the Politico article above. It is well done . . .

    This part stood out for me . .

    But Defense Department officials say the Kherson region is an example of the tough fighting that lies ahead. Fighting across the river to try to retake territory on the opposite bank is a difficult military maneuver.
    “Why not start talking about [peace talks] before you throw another 100,000 lives into the abyss?” the second U.S. official said.
    What do you suggest the conditions for peace, be?
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  10. #7325
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, December 1.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-december-1

    Key Takeaways

    • Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko continued to set informational conditions to resist Russian pressure to enter the war against Ukraine.
    • Russian forces continued efforts to defend against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
    • Russian forces continued to make incremental gains around Bakhmut and to conduct offensive operations in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area.
    • Russian forces continued to conduct defensive measures and move personnel on the east bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast.
    • Russian military movements in Zaporizhia Oblast may suggest that Russian forces cannot defend critical areas amidst increasing Ukrainian strikes.
    • Russian forces are holding reserves in Crimea to support defensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast and on the east bank of the Dnipro River.
    • The Kremlinís financial strain continues to feed domestic unrest.
    • Evidence persists regarding the continuation of partial mobilization in the face of low morale and high desertion rates amongst Russian troops.
    • Wagner Group financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin continued attempts to bolster the Wagner Groupís reputation.
    • Russian occupation officials continued efforts to integrate occupied territories into the Russian financial and legal spheres.
    • Russian forces continued to exploit Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure in support of Russiaís war effort in Ukraine.

  11. #7326
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Bull-Pucky, then why is Milley an outcast among the Blobista Warrior Elite ??
    milley is chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. his statement i quoted above represents the official position of the commander in chief.

    his further comments regarding prospects for ukranian victory and the advisability of negotiations amount to neither a directive, nor a change in biden administration philosophy.

    your politico article is an op-ed. not news.

  12. #7327
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    you sure are up early farmer lee
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  13. #7328
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    i do what i can to help.

  14. #7329
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Not much hope of a compromise from Putin:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63832151

  15. #7330
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Russia says the West's refusal to recognise "new territories" seized from Ukraine makes peace talks harder, after President Joe Biden indicated he would be ready to meet Vladimir Putin.
    BBC.

    Tell us again, what are Ukraine and the West supposed to do to get peace talks going? Should they give Putin "new territories" that he doesn't even fully occupy as a precondition?

  16. #7331
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    BBC.

    Tell us again, what are Ukraine and the West supposed to do to get peace talks going? Should they give Putin "new territories" that he doesn't even fully occupy as a precondition?
    Sorta falls into the "well, duh" slot. Why would you negotiate with a terrorist and a thief? It's a little like me trying to negotiate with your bank account.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  17. #7332
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Why would you negotiate with a terrorist and a thief?.
    Are you talking about Vlad or Dubya Bush ??

  18. #7333
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    your politico article is an op-ed. not news.
    How can one write a news article about something that has not yet happened ?? Articles that do that HAVE TO BE OPINION, or reporting of opinion.

    On this thread, there is almost nothing but opinion.

    Point not well taken.

    Y'all are quite inconsistent in going after everyone who calls for negotiations, while giving Milley a pass.

  19. #7334
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Are you talking about Vlad or Dubya Bush ??
    What's the thread topic again? You seem to have forgotten.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  20. #7335
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    How can one write a news article about something that has not yet happened ?? Articles that do that HAVE TO BE OPINION, or reporting of opinion.

    On this thread, there is almost nothing but opinion.

    Point not well taken.

    Y'all are quite inconsistent in going after everyone who calls for negotiations, while giving Milley a pass.
    what has “not yet happened”? milley said what he said, and according to politico people are “scrambling to reassure” ukraine, etc..

    also according to politico “the biden administration has to” blah blah blah.

    your need to narrate everyone else’s position has you doing contortions. the politico piece you say is “well written”, when the author obviously represents a hawkish position on the war. the very position you want me to represent, which i don’t.

    as for milley, he didn’t “call for” negotiations. the salient point he makes is that it is not our call. it’s ukraine’s call, and always has been.

  21. #7336
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    One problem with hoping that the Russian people rise up and overthrow Putin is that Russians are not given to rising up and overthrowing their ruler.

    They have managed it just once, despite severe provocation on other occasions.

    Even the English have done better - we’ve done it twice. Our American cousins have done it once.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  22. #7337
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    One problem with hoping that the Russian people rise up and overthrow Putin is that Russians are not given to rising up and overthrowing their ruler.

    They have managed it just once, despite severe provocation on other occasions.

    Even the English have done better - we’ve done it twice. Our American cousins have done it once.
    Well, "we" tried again last January. "We" ought to get some credit for the attempt, at least.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #7338
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Wait, this General Milley?
    The general who tramped across Pennsylvania ave to help tfg hold up a bible?
    The general who threatened by his action to use US military against the black lives matter protests?


    86D8F0DB-4AF7-4AC7-8619-818C892E0068.jpg

  24. #7339
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Perhaps he was under orders.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  25. #7340
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Wait, this General Milley?
    The general who tramped across Pennsylvania ave to help tfg hold up a bible?
    The general who threatened by his action to use US military against the black lives matter protests?
    He apologized for the "tramp", as well he should have.

    He also refused the Drumph's appeal to involve the military in the auto-golpe (though yeah, he should have loudly blown the whistle).

    So typical of your side to launch personal attacks against those with whom you disagree.

    You are not close to being capable of dealing with his arguments.

  26. #7341
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    A general hopefully would be smart enough not to have to apologize for anything

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post

    So typical of your side to launch personal attacks against those with whom you disagree.

    You are not close to being capable of dealing with his arguments.
    Feeling a little insecure this morning, perhaps you have picked the wrong side?

  27. #7342
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    My normal civility starts to wear thin when your side launches personal attacks . .

    though I must admit that it is not as bad as 2003 when we were threatened with violence . .

    not as bad as 2003 yet, I should say.
    Last edited by sandtown; 12-02-2022 at 02:39 PM.

  28. #7343
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Speaking of The Bomb, Hiroshima, Russia and more . . . .

    here is some unknown, untaught and politically incorrect history.

    https://covertactionmagazine.com/202...eid=719bc883fd

  29. #7344
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    Default

    Byelorussian volunteer heavy weapons team driving Ma Deuce for Ukraine.

    https://youtu.be/Ji-FterkEkI

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. ó P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  30. #7345
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    Default

    Also, this is interesting. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/w...war-river.html

    Ukrainian commandos crossing the river Dnipro to go into Indian Country.

    The most interesting thing is this. Here, the commando is praying before heading across the river. She's code-named "Vita". She and her husband are Russian and fighting for Ukraine. Vita, according to the New York Times has "an almost mythical renown for surviving close combat with Russian troops."

    But that tattoo on her hand -- that looks to be a pre-christian Latvian symbol, though I'd have to check with my aunts as to its meaning.

    I am interested in her story.

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. ó P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  31. #7346
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, December 2.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-december-2

    Key Takeaways

    • Russia is attempting to capitalize on the Western desire for negotiations to create a dynamic in which Western officials feel obliged to make preemptive concessions to lure Russia to the table.
    • Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reiterated as the basis for negotiations precisely the same demands that the Russian Foreign Ministry had made before the February 24 invasion, and Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitrii Peskov added the further demand that the West recognize Russia’s annexation of Ukrainian territory.
    • Russian forces still pose a threat to Ukrainian energy infrastructure despite the success of Ukrainian air defenses.
    • Additional Western air defense systems are prompting the Russian pro-war community to question the Russian air campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure.
    • Russian officials are setting conditions to negotiate the demilitarization of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), an agreement upon which Russia would likely renege and that would not eliminate or diminish the ongoing threat to the ZNPP.
    • Ukrainian forces made localized breakthroughs southwest and northwest of Kreminna.
    • Russian forces continued to make minimal advances in the Bakhmut area and conduct offensive operations in the Avdiivka–Donetsk City area.
    • Russian forces may be struggling to properly allocate and deploy forces in rear areas in southern Ukraine due to Ukrainian strikes.
    • Poor logistics, unruly mobilized personnel, and domestic protests continue to prevent the Kremlin from achieving the goals of partial mobilization.
    • Russian President Vladimir Putin continues to attempt to mask military development projects in occupied territories for no obvious reason.

  32. #7347
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Why would a commando with a tattoo let her picture be taken, unmasked, right before going behind the lines?

  33. #7348
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    • Russia is attempting to capitalize on the Western desire for negotiations to create a dynamic in which Western officials feel obliged to make preemptive concessions to lure Russia to the table.
    • Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov reiterated as the basis for negotiations precisely the same demands that the Russian Foreign Ministry had made before the February 24 invasion, and Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitrii Peskov added the further demand that the West recognize Russia’s annexation of Ukrainian territory.
    Still waiting for Sandtown to explain how Ukraine and the West are supposed to start negotiations given those conditions.

  34. #7349
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Still waiting for Sandtown to explain how Ukraine and the West are supposed to start negotiations given those conditions.
    I've asked him the same question...no answer.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  35. #7350
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Why would a commando with a tattoo let her picture be taken, unmasked, right before going behind the lines?

    Wrong question.

    Why is the NYT PUBLISHING A PHOTO of a commando with a tattoo and her face uncovered, and why would anyone post it to social or other media given the paranoia of Russian trolls?

    How will people feel if the next time you see that hand is connected to a charred corpse?

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