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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #3641
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    for-vadym.jpg

    You'd think we wouldn't click? Refuge in audacity doesn't work on me, try lying in a more sophisticated manner.
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  2. #3642
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  3. #3643
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    for-vadym.jpg

    You'd think we wouldn't click? Refuge in audacity doesn't work on me, try lying in a more sophisticated manner.
    The Corruption Perceptions Index ranks countries by their perceived levels of public sector corruption on a scale from 100 (very clean) to 0 (highly corrupt).
    Shouldn't 0 be very clean?
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  4. #3644
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    No worries, Lew!

    And an FYI - *I hear* there's a Vax for Ruskie trolls/bots - called the SkaryVadim suppository.

    Available everywhere!
    Not my preferred therapy, George! I think fresh air and sunlight are best
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  5. #3645
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Ukraine could be the most corrupt nation ever. Irrelevant.
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  6. #3646
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Ukraine could be the most corrupt nation ever. Irrelevant.
    Context. You might be willing to be drafted and sent to your death to support a corrupt government, the exodus of young men in Ukraine show they do not share your view.


  7. #3647
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Context. You might be willing to be drafted and sent to your death to support a corrupt government, the exodus of young men in Ukraine show they do not share your view.

    You spelt Russia wrong.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  8. #3648
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You spelt Russia wrong.
    Russia, Ukraine, America , United Kingdom, France, Turkey......the list is as long as all nations on the planet. There is a reason why recruitment numbers are down in the West. No end of disgruntled ex-service persons who realise after the fact, what they were sent to do was often based on lies, and their patriotism taken advantage of, giving a voice to those who came bag in bags.

  9. #3649
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Russia, Ukraine, America , United Kingdom, France, Turkey......the list is as long as all nations on the planet. There is a reason why recruitment numbers are down in the West. No end of disgruntled ex-service persons who realise after the fact, what they were sent to do was often based on lies, and their patriotism taken advantage of, giving a voice to those who came bag in bags.
    All wars are fought over resources or land. Russia wants Ukraine's resources and land, always has. What Stalin did to Ukraine back in the 1930s was an act of genocide on a Jewish holocaust scale. Russian troops have tortured and massacred Ukrainian civilians in extremely brutal fashion. If it happened to your country, would you not fight?
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  10. #3650
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Me thinks Vadims country is currently the aggressor in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim needs to be Scotted. JayInOz

  11. #3651
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    . If it happened to your country, would you not fight?
    One thing is fighting someone who has invaded your country tying to take your family home and families life, its another thing entirely to put your life on the line in another country you can not find on a map for false reasons.

    Easy for someone to call others "selfish" for not wanting to die for a regime they do not support, when they are not the ones whose life is on the line.

  12. #3652
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    One thing is fighting someone who has invaded your country tying to take your family home and families life, its another thing entirely to put your life on the line in another country you can not find on a map for false reasons.

    Easy for someone to call others "selfish" for not wanting to die for a regime they do not support, when they are not the ones whose life is on the line.
    First sentence: Agreed.
    Second sentence: Not quite sure of that one. Seems there are plenty on the Russian who don't want to fight...for a number of reasons.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  13. #3653
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Me thinks Vadims country is currently the aggressor in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim needs to be Scotted. JayInOz

    Maybe Vadim was in Eastern Ukraine bringing aid to civilians. Maybe Vadims transport run over a mine. Maybe parts of Vadims leg is still in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim was a medical evacuee via Poland to Sweden so he could lose more of his leg in surgery.

    Maybe Vadim is a little tired of armchair experts who make untrue comments .

  14. #3654
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    Seems there are plenty on the Russian who don't want to fight...for a number of reasons.
    Sure. I do not believe i ever suggested otherwise. Most recruits never expect to go to an actual war.

  15. #3655
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Sweden has reactivated conscription. Finland always kept it going. The support for a concription based military defence is quite solid. To my knowledge, none of the poltitical parties object and there have been no protests. The drawback with a concription based army is that it's awkward to send it abroad farther than our closest neighbours, which essentially means the Nordic countries plus the Baltic states. We'll still need a volunteer/professional element to support NATO countries farther away, which includes Turkey.
    /Erik

  16. #3656
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Context. You might be willing to be drafted and sent to your death to support a corrupt government, the exodus of young men in Ukraine show they do not share your view.
    There's only one context: respect by a nation for another nation's sovereignty. GTFOO Ukraine right F ing now, or we'll force you out, hard enough that you'll not be back for a long time.
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  17. #3657
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Very interesting youtube by “Perun” on Poland’s role in the Ukrainian war. I highly recommend this:

    https://youtu.be/sSPhOWDkcPk
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  18. #3658
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Me thinks Vadims country is currently the aggressor in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim needs to be Scotted. JayInOz
    O, let him talk.

  19. #3659
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Maybe Vadim was in Eastern Ukraine bringing aid to civilians. Maybe Vadims transport run over a mine. Maybe parts of Vadims leg is still in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim was a medical evacuee via Poland to Sweden so he could lose more of his leg in surgery.

    Maybe Vadim is a little tired of armchair experts who make untrue comments .
    No offense, but the "maybe's" leave a lot of room for speculation.
    If Vadim has left a part of himself behind in Ukraine, I sincerely hope that is something that he can come to terms with in time. If he hasn't, he might like to reconsider how he interacts with this community.

    FWIW, I wouldn't judge anyone for leaving a country at war, I think that is a very personal decision, and one that is loaded with very real consequences either way.
    Especially for a younger person with a lifetime ahead of them.

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  20. #3660
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Ukraine could be the most corrupt nation ever. Irrelevant.
    Irrelevant in some topics relevant in others.

  21. #3661
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Sure. I do not believe i ever suggested otherwise. Most recruits never expect to go to an actual war.
    Particularly when they are told they are going on a training exercise.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  22. #3662
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Easy for someone to call others "selfish" for not wanting to die for a regime they do not support, when they are not the ones whose life is on the line.
    We all know what happened in Bucha, and many other places. We all know heavy repressions were bound to happen, some are just suprised with the ruthlessness and audacity of it. Unless you happen to live in the midwestern Balkans, resisting against foreign aggression is absolutely equal to just caring about your family and neighbours. How far is the governing entity corrupt is of no meaning when there's a violent mob threatening your life, your livelihood, your wife's, mother's, aunt's and even grandmother's basic dignity. This is not changing one bad manager to the other and you know it. And Ukrainians do know it. They've realized it that it does make the difference who steers the ship, first in 2004 and then fully in 2014. The feel of a nation with no helmsman is long gone, the "whatever, they'll just steal and care for themselves anyway" attitude is gone. This is no longer a soviet republic inhabited by homo sovieticus, no matter how much this annoys the neighbour. If you claim staying with own folk means supporting regime, I have questions:
    1) What regime? Do you claim that Kiyv is fascist? Did they commit crimes against the easternmost citizens of their coutry?
    2) What interest do you have in spreading misinformation, like here, here, here and here? What news do you read?
    3) Why the cynic viewpoint? No, it's not 'real' or 'cool headed', it's cynic. Do you believe there's symmetry in this conflict?
    4) Why did you decide to join WBF of all places, if all you write about is related to very particular part of geopolitics? Did we just pop up in some random google search in the Petersburg central?
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  23. #3663
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Irrelevant in some topics relevant in others.
    What was it relevant to in the context in which Vadim used it?
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  24. #3664
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Context. You might be willing to be drafted and sent to your death to support a corrupt government, the exodus of young men in Ukraine show they do not share your view.

    Ja, especially the rag flag of the Russian Federation, with which, though it is unworthy, I daub my spinkter.
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  25. #3665
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Ja, especially the rag flag of the Russian Federation, with which, though it is unworthy, I daub my spinkter.
    Can't quite 'put my finger on it' - but that sounds vaguely obscene!

    I like it!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  26. #3666
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    We all know what happened in Bucha, and many other places. We all know heavy repressions were bound to happen, some are just suprised with the ruthlessness and audacity of it. Unless you happen to live in the midwestern Balkans, resisting against foreign aggression is absolutely equal to just caring about your family and neighbours. How far is the governing entity corrupt is of no meaning when there's a violent mob threatening your life, your livelihood, your wife's, mother's, aunt's and even grandmother's basic dignity. This is not changing one bad manager to the other and you know it. And Ukrainians do know it. They've realized it that it does make the difference who steers the ship, first in 2004 and then fully in 2014. The feel of a nation with no helmsman is long gone, the "whatever, they'll just steal and care for themselves anyway" attitude is gone. This is no longer a soviet republic inhabited by homo sovieticus, no matter how much this annoys the neighbour. If you claim staying with own folk means supporting regime, I have questions:
    1) What regime? Do you claim that Kiyv is fascist? Did they commit crimes against the easternmost citizens of their coutry?
    2) What interest do you have in spreading misinformation, like here, here, here and here? What news do you read?
    3) Why the cynic viewpoint? No, it's not 'real' or 'cool headed', it's cynic. Do you believe there's symmetry in this conflict?
    4) Why did you decide to join WBF of all places, if all you write about is related to very particular part of geopolitics? Did we just pop up in some random google search in the Petersburg central?
    About as nice/thorough an exposition as I've seen.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  27. #3667
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    About the only possible strategic maneuver I can see for Ukraine would be to break through the RF front south of Zaporizhzhia, which is being held with those T-62s and similar junk, drive to Melitopol (taking advantage of the developing local insurgency), and then do a left hook to cut off the Crimea, leaving all the Russians between Zaporizhzhia and Kherson cut off and encircled.

    That would require an advance of about 300 km. Can Ukraine do it if they assemble everything they have held back and everything that's already in the pipeline?



  28. #3668
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    ^ You know the Russians built a bridge across that narrow bit between the Crimean peninsula and the mainland, right?

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  29. #3669
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Yes. Bridges can be blown up. But the point would not be an attempt to liberate Crimea, which would be vastly more difficult. Ukraine would hold the neck of the isthmus, and end Russian dreams of a land bridge.

  30. #3670
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Can't quite 'put my finger on it' - but that sounds vaguely obscene!

    I like it!
    It's a term of art.

    That's OK, Rus Boy don't mind. He hates flags. Fit to wipe your spinker, if that. They only represent nationalism, and all nationalism is the same, uh . . . except for Holy Mother Russia. Other than that he's just a big lovable Russian pacifist citizen of the world.
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  31. #3671
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Maybe Vadim was in Eastern Ukraine bringing aid to civilians. Maybe Vadims transport run over a mine. Maybe parts of Vadims leg is still in Ukraine. Maybe Vadim was a medical evacuee via Poland to Sweden so he could lose more of his leg in surgery.

    Maybe Vadim is a little tired of armchair experts who make untrue comments .
    If this is autobiographical, I am sorry for your loss. I'd boldly ask that Vadim drop the maybes if this describes his personal situation. Yours is a story I would like to hear. What humanitarian service was Vadim working for at the time?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  32. #3672
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    I'm depressed as ever about the developments. I've stopped watching the war's progress for now. I suspect I'm not alone in literally feeling physical discomfort about the picture on the ground.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  33. #3673
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Here we go again. Supposedly enlightened & intelligent people wanting someone they disagree with shut down or removed. Maybe not everyone here want an echo chamber & maybe those who do should use the ignore list.

    I'll joint Lew in asking Vadim to share his story - I'd like to hear it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  34. #3674
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    A lot of people here who criticize Putin would act just like him when it comes to freedom of opinion.

  35. #3675
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Why can’t we have a like button?

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