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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #10396
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Denis is a bit more upbeat than he has been for a while.
    Explosions in Crimea, plane loads of equipment. He's like a kid in a sweet shop - what to choose? Where will we counterattack?

    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  2. #10397
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, March 20.


    • Russian sources claim that Russian forces are building up defensive fortifications and repelled Ukrainian reconnaissance-in-force operations in Zaporizhia Oblast.

    All the hallmarks of a Ukrainian counter offensive in the north-east.

    I wonder is Bahkmut less about grinding down the Russians than giving them a sense that this is as far as Ukraine is going to commit for this patch of ground. Ukraine doing just enough to slow walk the Russians in. So much talk of strategically unimportant and all that jazz (coming from allied commentators). It was Wagner who set Bahkmut up as important - not Ukraine. They just hopped on the bandwagon at some point for no obvious reason. Bahkmut, the worm on the hook.

    Think of the moral and psychological impact of literally wiping out Wagner.
    Wagner are sucked right into the horns of the bull, they are very vulnerable to a resourced and capable counter offensive to their outside flank and rear. (Says the armchair general who is feeling a little peckish).
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  3. #10398
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    At this point, putin managed to deliver one part of the "bring ussr back" promise: totalitarianism.

    Reaching the masses won't be easy, and even if you do you'll most likely just broadcast an open secret. It's not lack of knowledge that keeps the masses silent.
    He needs a hat.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  4. #10399
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The US support for Ukraine is invaluable, but the actual cost for the US Army may be inflated. A large part of the US supplies to Ukraine is cold war era weapons, which is what Ukraine needs to fight early cold war era Soviet weapons. Some weapons and ammunition (especially the "smart" ammunition) are modern and should be accounted to the cost it takes to re-supply the stocks, but much of the equipment would have been scrapped some years to come and will not be re-supplied. The latter part has a great value for Ukraine now, but what is it actually costing the US? Whatever cost is attributed, it couldn't have been used to fill any other need in the US society. Exactly how do you help poor Americans by providing them with used Bradleys and soon to be dated 155 mm ammunition?
    Please don't read this as I'm ungrateful to the US for all the aid. The US aid has been invaluable, and I especially value the good sense of the US to not scrap material that had little apparent value yesterday but the situation changed and today the value for Ukraine is grate. I do however find the discussion in the US regarding the cost of the aid to Ukraine dishonest. There really isn't any alternative use for old arms.
    /Erik

  5. #10400
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    So with China continuing to back RF vs Europe and the US, can anyone explain why this is not the beginning of WWIII?

  6. #10401
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, march 21.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...-march-21-2023

    Key Takeaways

    • Russian President Vladimir Putin appears to be setting conditions to weaponize the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) as a method of Russian power projection in advance of Russia’s accession to the rotating UNSC presidency in April.
    • The readouts of the second day of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s visit with Russian President Vladimir Putin continued to suggest that Putin has not been able to secure the no-limits bilateral partnership with China that he likely hoped for.
    • Putin falsely portrayed the Western provision of depleted uranium ammunition (not suitable for use in nuclear or radiological weapons) to Ukraine as a significant escalation in order to bolster information operations aiming to deter Western security assistance to Ukraine and to place the onus for negotiations on the West.
    • Wagner Group may lose most of its convict force in the upcoming weeks as convicts finish their six-month military contracts.
    • The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) and the Russian National Guard (Rosgvardia) launched a criminal investigation into the Deputy Commander of the Rosgvardia’s Central District, Major General Vadim Dragomiretsky.
    • The US Department of Defense (DoD) announced that it authorized a presidential drawdown to provide around $350 million of security assistance to Ukraine.
    • Russian forces continued limited offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line.
    • Russian forces did not make any confirmed gains in or around Bakhmut and continued offensive operations along the outskirts of Donetsk City.
    • The Kremlin continues crypto mobilization campaigns to recruit men across Russia for contract service to avoid declaring a second mobilization wave.
    • Russian occupation officials continue to facilitate the deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia.

  7. #10402
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Poland has charged six foreign citizens with preparing acts of sabotage and spying for Russia, interior minister Mariusz Kaminski has said.Mr Kaminski said the six were "foreigners from across the eastern border" and they had sought to disrupt military and aid supplies to Ukraine. Prosecutors are currently preparing proceedings against three other people also detained in the operation. "Evidence indicates that this group monitored railway lines. Their tasks included recognising, monitoring and documenting weapons' transports to Ukraine," Mr Kaminski told a news briefing on Thursday morning. "The suspects were also preparing sabotage actions aimed at paralysing the supply of equipment, weapons and aid to Ukraine." Six of the suspects have been charged with conducting espionage for Russia and participation in an organised criminal group, after they were detained as part of an operation conducted by Poland's Internal Security Agency (ABW). ABW officers found cameras, electronic equipment and GPS transmitters that were to be mounted on aid transports to Ukraine.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
    https://www.gov.pl/web/mswia-en/poli...riusz-kaminski
    https://www.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C15...ng-russia.html

    Orcs damaging infrastructure inside NATO is development I'm happy we delayed, especially if that development would slow down weapons deliveries
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  8. #10403
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64975200
    https://www.gov.pl/web/mswia-en/poli...riusz-kaminski
    https://www.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C15...ng-russia.html

    Orcs damaging infrastructure inside NATO is development I'm happy we delayed, especially if that development would slow down weapons deliveries
    Well done, Poland!
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  9. #10404
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Inside protected with Chobham armour, the Ukranians in the Challengers are going to enjoy the confluence of packing HESH rounds, depleted Uranium shells and tea making facilities.

  10. #10405
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post
    The US support for Ukraine is invaluable, but the actual cost for the US Army may be inflated. A large part of the US supplies to Ukraine is cold war era weapons, which is what Ukraine needs to fight early cold war era Soviet weapons. Some weapons and ammunition (especially the "smart" ammunition) are modern and should be accounted to the cost it takes to re-supply the stocks, but much of the equipment would have been scrapped some years to come and will not be re-supplied. The latter part has a great value for Ukraine now, but what is it actually costing the US? Whatever cost is attributed, it couldn't have been used to fill any other need in the US society. Exactly how do you help poor Americans by providing them with used Bradleys and soon to be dated 155 mm ammunition?
    Please don't read this as I'm ungrateful to the US for all the aid. The US aid has been invaluable, and I especially value the good sense of the US to not scrap material that had little apparent value yesterday but the situation changed and today the value for Ukraine is grate. I do however find the discussion in the US regarding the cost of the aid to Ukraine dishonest. There really isn't any alternative use for old arms.
    /Erik
    I agree with this and have posted about it before. When the US sends an M113 (which was new in the 1960s like me) we account for it at full value. But we cannot sell them for full value, or any value at all. In fact we were planning to scrap them which would cost us money. The US has saved tens of millions by sending old equipment to Ukraine. However you have to follow the accounting rules, so the old equipment makes us look very generous.

    I think when someone complains too loud we should give them an M113 and tell them they can pay the disposal cost or send it to Ukraine.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  11. #10406
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The Tornado airframes that weren't gifted to museums went into metal recycling...they probably got a few thousand pounds per airframe at the current value of painted aluminium recycling rates (£1500/ ton) or maybe nothing given the trouble of shifting them and cutting them up.

    10 years ago USA bought 74 British Harriers, just for the parts, for 112 million. They would have been perfect for Ukraine as would have been the Tornado's for low level ground attack but nobody in Europe thought the Russian's were quite this stupid. All Typhoons now.

    Yeah...all the stuff the USA is sending, it's all excellent stuff, but basically all paid for, mostly stuff you weren't sure you still had, fiscally worthless and pre crusher. That some Republican's (of all people) fail to see the geopolitical gains for the almost zero investment makes them look unfit for office.

    A demilitarised Russia with no money is what you're getting, for shipping out just a few of your old Howitzers and artillery systems you'd forgotten you had that was considered 'pre drone war' technology. In the history of the USA, you've never got more for less. Your biggest geostrategic win since WW2 is on the cards by the end of the year, so crack on.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 03-22-2023 at 09:03 AM.

  12. #10407
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    ........
    Anyone cheering the use of DU munitions need to go to Fallujah and watch a deformed child die of leukaemia.

    I find it incredulous that sending these toxic arms to be used in Ukraine, is considered a "good thing" by an ally, history is not showing anything positive results from its use; quite the opposite.

  13. #10408
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Well if you want to join NATO you’d better get used to it.

    It’s the UK’s nuclear umbrella and armed forces that are giving you protection from Russian invasion after panicked application for NATO membership last year. Would you rather we send our Morris dancers to fend off T80’s before the Russians rape your women and destroy your towns?

    The rounds the Challengers and Abrams fire can go through the front armor of a Russian tank where its thickest head on when its tank on tank.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 03-22-2023 at 10:57 AM.

  14. #10409
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    If you want to fight NATO you’d better get used to it coming your way.
    Fixed it for you.
    Vadim-Johan is not in Sweden and has probably never been there. He is in all likelyhood an employee at a propaganda office in Russia.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  15. #10410
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Well if you want to join NATO you’d better get used to it.

    It’s the UK’s nuclear umbrella and armed forces that are giving you protection from Russian invasion after panicked application for NATO membership last year. Would you rather we send our Morris dancers to fend off T80’s before the Russians rape your women and destroy your towns?

    The rounds the Challengers and Abrams fire can go through the front armor of a Russian tank where its thickest head on when its tank on tank.
    Nobody thinks that “Johan R” is Swedish - Heimlaga, who is Finnish but speaks Swedish - caught him out, a few miles up this thread, and he pulled his horns in for a while. There’s nothing to suggest that he lives in Sweden, either.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  16. #10411
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Nobody thinks that “Johan R” is Swedish
    Why would they? I have already pointed out more than once I am not Swedish.

    Heimlaga, who is Finnish but speaks Swedish - caught him out, a few miles up this thread
    Has he? Care to show some evidence to back up your assertion?

    and he pulled his horns in for a while
    .

    I was in Turkey helping after the earthquake, while you were no doubt whining.

    There’s nothing to suggest that he lives in Sweden, either.
    Nothing to suggest i do not either. Here is a local road sign.



    So much childish animosity against anyone who disagrees with others outlook. One wonders how on earth any of you resolve any problems in your lives.

  17. #10412
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    Default Re: Ukraine




    Cuz' the internets never lie.....


    And yeah - heimlaga took you off at the knees. Busted.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  18. #10413
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    coincidence.jpg

    what a serendipitous similarity
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  19. #10414
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Would you rather we send our Morris dancers to fend off T80’s before the Russians rape your women and destroy your towns?
    Clearly you know nothing about life in Sweden, if you did, you would know that due to immigrant and refugees coming into Sweden because of "Western Intervention", there is already a mass increase in rape and destruction.

  20. #10415
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post

    what a serendipitous similarity
    Not really. I never said i took the photo. I pass that road sign on a regular basis. Prove i do not.

  21. #10416
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Trolls don't get to demand. Anything.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  22. #10417
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    coincidence.jpg

    what a serendipitous similarity
    HA!

    Smells sort of like bacon in here...
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  23. #10418
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Not really. I never said i took the photo. I pass that road sign on a regular basis. Prove i do not.
    Read my tag line.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  24. #10419
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    So with China continuing to back RF vs Europe and the US, can anyone explain why this is not the beginning of WWIII?
    Because "undying friendship" doesn't mean "we will back you all the way with everything we got". Case in point, the RF is buying drones from Iran. Besides this beeing a slap in the face for the domestic industry, it's also indicative of how far the "friendship" goes. China has the industrial capacity to manufacture as many drones as the customer can pay for, just provide the plans for the product if you don't like our existing ones.
    Drones are just an example of course, the PLA is probably able to kit out the entire RF fighting force from stock.

  25. #10420
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Clearly you know nothing about life in Sweden, if you did, you would know that due to immigrant and refugees coming into Sweden because of "Western Intervention", there is already a mass increase in rape and destruction.
    There are certain places in Sweden where that statement holds true. In a very local sence. Because local gangs of second generation immigrants have gone off the rail. None of those places is anywhere near that "local" to you road sign in Mullsjö.

    The only thing you got right is that Swedish right wing extremists tend to use every opportunity to spew their hatred over immigrants and they also tend to support Putinism and oppose any military help to Ukraine. We are talking about a whooping 5% or so of voting eligible Swedes. Mostly people who live in places where those aforementioned gangs are hellraising. Had you chosen your pretended location with just a wee bit of thought you could have pretended to be one of them.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  26. #10421
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    So much childish animosity against anyone who disagrees with others outlook. One wonders how on earth any of you resolve any problems in your lives.
    Indeed, they must all be War Bots !!

    Here is what the US Vets Admin says about DU munitions -

    https://www.publichealth.va.gov/expo...red%20vehicles.

    The US has used DU since the 1990 Gulf War, and later in Bosnia, Syria Iraq (2003) and elsewhere.

    To me it is unclear whether Russia is using DU

  27. #10422
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    The only thing you got right is that Swedish right wing extremists tend to use every opportunity to spew their hatred over immigrants and they also tend to support Putinism and oppose any military help to Ukraine. We are talking about a whooping 5% or so of voting eligible Swedes.
    For other posters enlightenment, it seems Heimlaga knows even less about Sweden than he pretends to know about Ukraine.

    The Swedish Government is made up of 349 seats from various parties, how does he explain that those "right wing extremists" known as the "social democrats", have the second largest party in the Riksdag with 73 seats? 21% of the vote is magnitudes bigger than the 5% you suggest.

    What he probably meant to say, is that only 5% of Swedes will actually admit to voting SD, as to do so comes with risk of being labelled a right wing racist, by the rest of the politically correct. Swedes can not even be honest amongst themselves for fear of confrontation.

    Nothing to do with Ukraine, but a response to yet another personal attack.

  28. #10423
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Where's all this heat coming from Johan?

    You're not going to win this one.

  29. #10424
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Where's all this heat coming from Johan?

    You're not going to win this one.
    You tell me.

    Never believed there would be so much antagonistic response by any living being over suggesting that depleted uranium is a bad idea. I guess that shows the level of intelligence here; still getting their water in lead pipes perhaps.

    Nothing to win and not trying. People can and do hide behind their own BS. Curse of the internet, nature of the beast.

  30. #10425
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    I am not going to post pictures as they are not for the weak minded or those with a weak stomach. This is the reason i speak up against depleted uranium. Those that support its use, wish the future of Ukraine to have to deal with this?

    child defects from depleted uranium - Bing images

  31. #10426
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Johan, do you also have a link to photos of standard tank round victims? Because that is what DU rounds are trying to stop. They are designed to stop tanks.

    How about shelled children in orphanages? Maybe minus their limbs or faces?

    Do you have any photos of soldiers gang raping women?

    How about the festering mass graves of women and child civilians?

    DU rounds are not pretty, we all know that. It is not news, we don't need links. You and Sandtown seem to think the WBF is made up of average IQ idiots, which is far from the case, but speaks volumes about you both.

  32. #10427
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Johan, do you also have a link to photos of standard tank round victims? Because that is what DU rounds are trying to stop. They are designed to stop tanks.
    Seems Ukraine has been very successful as many people have pointed out with great glee with their regard in disabling Russian armour.

    How about shelled children in orphanages? Maybe minus their limbs or faces?
    Seen it first hand.


    How about the festering mass graves of women and child civilians?
    Seen them and smelled them. DU is not going to change that.

    DU rounds are not pretty, we all know that. It is not news, we don't need links. You and Sandtown seem to think the WBF is made up of average IQ idiots, which is far from the case, but speaks volumes about you both
    .

    Actually, below average is more accurate given how certain people react and respond. Sandtown can speak for himself. If calling out other peoples BS offends you, then perhaps it is not me with the problem.

    War is f***ing ugly. Why would anyone make it worse for when hostilities end for the surviving population? If Ukraine wish to use DU shells on their own territory, that is their choice.

  33. #10428
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    coincidence.jpg

    what a serendipitous similarity
    Trollhätten — literally "Troll's hat/bonnet", but "Troll mountain".

    Telling, eh?

    [Loved my Trollhätten-made Saab 9000, I did. Some trolls did quality work.]
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  34. #10429
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    For other posters enlightenment, it seems Heimlaga knows even less about Sweden than he pretends to know about Ukraine.

    The Swedish Government is made up of 349 seats from various parties, how does he explain that those "right wing extremists" known as the "social democrats", have the second largest party in the Riksdag with 73 seats? 21% of the vote is magnitudes bigger than the 5% you suggest.

    What he probably meant to say, is that only 5% of Swedes will actually admit to voting SD, as to do so comes with risk of being labelled a right wing racist, by the rest of the politically correct. Swedes can not even be honest amongst themselves for fear of confrontation.

    Nothing to do with Ukraine, but a response to yet another personal attack.
    If you really mean what you wrote here I can only say that you not just painted yourself into a corner but also nailed your feet to the floor in the corner with five inch nails straight through.......
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  35. #10430
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    / . . . seem to think the WBF is made up of average IQ idiots, which is far from the case, but speaks volumes about you both.
    "average IQ idiots"?? Never wrote anything like that . .

    but some of ya go to great lengths to refuse to grapple with inconvenient facts.

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