Page 295 of 353 FirstFirst ... 195245285294295296305345 ... LastLast
Results 10,291 to 10,325 of 12353

Thread: Ukraine

  1. #10291
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    7,804

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    So the trustworthiness of all other parties - nato, us, Eu, Ukr, UK, and more . .

    are not to be questioned ??

    That makes zero sense whatsoever.
    Let's work our way down the list shall we?
    Let's start with Russia cause they're the guys that invaded; Russia, trustworthy or not? Ukraine can safely lay down their weapons in good faith and know that Russia with do likewise?

    then I shall ask the same question of say the USA. But first things first.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  2. #10292
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    26,571

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    So the trustworthiness of all other parties - nato, us, Eu, Ukr, UK, and more . .

    are not to be questioned ??

    That makes zero sense whatsoever.
    Question all you like. You've certainly had plenty of time. What answers have you found?

    You have neither questions, nor answers. All you have is the complaint that you might have a question, of some kind, of some urgency, some day. That will not do in the effort to stop Russian imperialism. The ones making the sacrifice to do so could use your support. Is it really the position of Veterans For Peace that Russia should be allowed to invade whom they like? Because of what, the intense racist imperialism of Queen Elizabeth? And how about those Zulus?

    You're like a guy complaining about this football game on account of what happened in a game last season. Entirely irrelevant. And your utterly lame fall-back is: "So, you're saying the refs in this game are perfect? Can't be questioned? What about the refs in that game 20 years ago?"

    Pitiful.
    Last edited by Osborne Russell; 03-14-2023 at 11:25 PM.
    Long live the rights of man.

  3. #10293
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    29,075

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Russkies are complaining of a shell shortage. Meanwhile their version of Baghdad Bob is saying that peace negotiations are, for now, off the table.

    We'll see if they change their tune after inserting more bodies into the sausage-making machine, but I doubt it. The Ukrainians are going to have to kill them all and Putin needs to go before this war stops.
    No comments on this? I think it needs more attention:

    Ukrainska Pravda
    Mon, March 13, 2023 at 3:32 AM PDT






    The Kremlin is convinced that it is impossible to talk about peace with Ukraine at the moment. Russia will keep fighting to capture Ukrainian territories.
    Source: Dmitry Peskov, press secretary of Russian President Vladimir Putin; Kremlin-aligned news outlet RIA Novosti
    Quote from Peskov: "There are no preconditions for a peaceful transition of the process. For us the absolute priority continues to be and will always remain the achievement of our goals. At the moment they can only be achieved by military means".
    So, Russia does not want to negotiate. It wants to conquer Ukraine. But that has been obvious for a while to anyone willing to see it.

  4. #10294
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    26,571

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    So, Russia does not want to negotiate. It wants to conquer Ukraine. But that has been obvious for a while to anyone willing to see it.
    Like the man said: No S, Sherlock. None so blind, etc.
    Long live the rights of man.

  5. #10295
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    There are a lot of differences. Again, I am not an expert, but it stands to reason that pressure within, pressure from without, wall thickness, temperature, mechanism of destruction, all the relevant densities (outside, inside, material interface densities) etc all play their part in what it looks like after a catastrophic event such as several hundred kilos of explosives detonating against it.
    It probably doesn't need to be a large charge.

    From the Federation of American Scientists.

    https://man.fas.org/dod-101/navy/doc...ns/uw_wpns.htm

    "When used against a submerged target, the greater ambient pressure and the buoyancy of the surrounding water preclude effective uses of this technique. However the interaction of the steam void and the submerged hull can be exploited to severely damage or potentially breach the submarine's pressure hull. The process begins with a close range underwater explosion. If the steam void contacts the hull it will attach itself. In this location, the oscillation of the steam void will cause a cyclic stress to the submerged hull and weaken or breach it. If a submarine's pressure hull is compromised it is unlikely to survive."



    And
    .
    .
    .
    Once the highly pressurized pipeline is damaged/breached, a stress riser is created, and you almost certainly have a catastrophic explosive failure.

    It may not be apparent whether the initial explosion was external or internal with respect to the pipeline.

    FAS also notes that stuff doesn't get "translated" (i.e., "moved") all that far because:

    "Targets exposed to underwater shock waves will be subject to diffraction and drag loading just like in air. There will be very little translation of targets because the shock wave is of short duration, and objects in motion will quickly be brought to rest by drag in the water."

    I can't find the source again, but at least one paper from WW2, shows shockwave velocity to be anywhere from 3,000 - 6,000 feet per second close in to the origin, decreasing exponentially. Think point source and area of a sphere (4/3 pi R^3is not just a good idea,it's a law). So the amount of mass that gets displaced varies as R^3, R being distance from the origin.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  6. #10296
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,359

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Regarding the US Predator aircraft that the Russians intentionally downed over international water in the Black Sea, I stated that the value was $100 million. Further research by people who care about getting facts correct:
    Unit Cost: $56.5 million (includes four aircraft with sensors, ground control station and Predator Primary satellite link) (fiscal 2011 dollars)
    Source: MQ-9 Reaper > Air Force > Fact Sheet Display (af.mil)
    So, a more realistic estimate of the unit cost for one aircraft is $10 million. It's still a lot of money and it will be interesting to see if the US accepts being bullied by Russia or if they respond to this act of war.
    /Erik

  7. #10297
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    ... but I would imaging that the US is sending surveillance aircraft in unarmed to avoid provoking an incident.
    Leaving the aircrafts transponder activated while in international airspace would also be less provocative , less reckless and un-professional.

    There are supposed to be "mechanisms" in place to avoid this kind of confrontation, as there was in Syria. Not defending what a Russian pilot has done, but i do not agree with US drones flying in Iraq droning innocent people either, can not give the usual "International Rules Based Order" slogan, when its routinely broken by those who quote it most. Certainly not worth starting WW3 over.

  8. #10298
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,040

    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, March 14.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...-march-14-2023

    Key Takeaways

    • Prominent Russian milbloggers are reamplifying a longstanding Russian information operation that seeks to weaponize religion to discredit Ukraine.
    • Russian authorities continue measures to mobilize the struggling Russian defense industrial base (DIB) for a protracted war effort.
    • Russian Su-27 jets forced down a US MQ-9 Reaper drone over the Black Sea in international airspace.
    • Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki stated on March 14 that Poland could supply MiG-29 multirole fighters to Ukraine within four-to-six weeks.
    • Ukrainian sources reported that Russian forces continue building defenses along Russia’s border with Ukraine in order to pin Ukrainian troops to northern border areas.
    • Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks northeast of Kupyansk and along the Svatove-Kreminna line.
    • Russian forces advanced within Bakhmut and continued ground attacks along the Avdiivka–Donetsk City frontline and in western Donetsk Oblast.
    • Russian forces continue fortifying rear areas in Russian occupied Zaporizhia Oblast.
    • United Russia Secretary Andrey Turchak announced on March 14 that the Russian State Duma will consider a law simplifying the legal recognition of missing Russian soldiers as dead.
    • Ukrainian partisans injured the Deputy Head of the Nova Kakhovka Occupation Military Administration in an improvised explosive device (IED) attack.

  9. #10299
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    20,845

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Leaving the aircrafts transponder activated while in international airspace would also be less provocative , less reckless and un-professional.

    There are supposed to be "mechanisms" in place to avoid this kind of confrontation, as there was in Syria. Not defending what a Russian pilot has done, but i do not agree with US drones flying in Iraq droning innocent people either, can not give the usual "International Rules Based Order" slogan, when its routinely broken by those who quote it most. Certainly not worth starting WW3 over.
    Oh, you mean the MiG’s were running around international airspace? And with their transponders on?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  10. #10300
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    29,744

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Stefan Korshak’s question and answer session and some notes on his trip to almost Bakhmut:

    https://medium.com/@Stefan.Korshak/m...x-b24877395bae

    A very interesting helicopter.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 03-15-2023 at 07:02 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  11. #10301
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,624

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by ERGR View Post
    Regarding the US Predator aircraft that the Russians intentionally downed over international water in the Black Sea, I stated that the value was $100 million. Further research by people who care about getting facts correct:

    Source: MQ-9 Reaper > Air Force > Fact Sheet Display (af.mil)
    So, a more realistic estimate of the unit cost for one aircraft is $10 million. It's still a lot of money and it will be interesting to see if the US accepts being bullied by Russia or if they respond to this act of war.
    /Erik
    That number looks suspiciously low even accounting for inflation. Reading a wiki article on sales contracts puts the cost higher.
    Maybe a bare airframe without engine,specific optics and electronics costs $10 million. After Googling around it looks like the Reaper is $34 million. The smaller base Predator was $7-$10 million in 2011.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidha...h=6fbfef5b946f

    Things changed when the Predator was replaced by Predator B. The Reaper is twice as fast as the original and carries five times the payload, making it more like a traditional Air Force plane…though it has less endurance than the Predator’s 40 hours which was arguably the rationale for a drone loitering above enemy territory.

    The price inflation from $4m to $7m to 14m to the current $32m is no great surprise. Increased performance always has a disproportionate effect on cost, and continual upgrades mean continual price hikes.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...-reaper-drone/

    The Air Force has contracted with General Atomics to build over 360 Reapers since the program began in 2007. A single Reaper drone costs roughly $30 million today, according to a Congressional Research Service report released last year.
    Last edited by LeeG; 03-15-2023 at 02:34 PM.

  12. #10302
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,028

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Only slightly off topic: looking at a photo of our drone,taken down by a Russian fighter, it seems almost impossible to hit the propeller without also tangling with the tail surfaces. Can anyone explain?

  13. #10303
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    31,378

    Default Re: Ukraine

    It's still a lot of money and it will be interesting to see if the US accepts being bullied by Russia or if they respond to this act of war.
    Stop. We didn't respond when a U2 was shot down over Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and a hell of a lot more was at stake back then.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  14. #10304
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,624

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by phiil View Post
    Only slightly off topic: looking at a photo of our drone,taken down by a Russian fighter, it seems almost impossible to hit the propeller without also tangling with the tail surfaces. Can anyone explain?
    yeah, not enough information.

  15. #10305
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Oh, you mean the MiG’s were running around international airspace? And with their transponders on?
    According to "flightradar24", none of the aircraft were tracked. I was responding to your post..

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    but I would imaging that the US is sending surveillance aircraft in unarmed to avoid provoking an incident.
    Thinking that the best way to avoid provoking an incident, is that for an aircraft heading directly at Crimea and Russian Airspace, one might either let the counter party know, or at least have a transponder on.

    I would have thought that interceptors are sent up to approaching aircraft without transponders on, in order not to give any adversary an edge. The point being the drone was in International airspace, but the US has not denied the transponder was off, that does not strike me as being "professional" unless the whole point was provocation. The US has gleaned some valuable data on response times, and the US public are good for another $36 million or so to replace it.

  16. #10306
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    yeah, not enough information.
    Su27 has a "bow rod"



    Easy enough for a skilled pilot to poke the pusher prop of a drone, though not without inherent risk.

  17. #10307
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    69,624

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Su27 has a "bow rod"



    Easy enough for a skilled pilot to poke the pusher prop of a drone, though not without inherent risk.
    That sure seems like a dumb thing to do while sucking in great gobs of air into one’s engines just downwind of damaged parts.

  18. #10308
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    That sure seems like a dumb thing to do while sucking in great gobs of air into one’s engines just downwind of damaged parts.
    No argument from me, and just speculating. Some have extended wing tips.....may have used that instead. Actually surprised there is no video footage released yet.

  19. #10309
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Isle of Mull, Scotland
    Posts
    10,720

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Will DeSantis go?
    Bet he chickens out!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64880145

  20. #10310
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,784

    Default

    As far as the unit cost of an MQ-9 goes, [i]Defense News] reported this in December 2020: "In its $696 billion spending bill for the Defense Department, lawmakers added about $286 million to buy 16 MQ-9 Reaper drones for the Air Force."

    https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020...the-air-force/

    That puts the unit cost at about $17.875m, slightly more expensive than the USAF factsheet's unit price of $14m, but considerably lower than the supposed $100m.

    Perhaps the $100m unit price is the total program price, amortizing R+D costs across the total number built.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  21. #10311
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    That sure seems like a dumb thing to do while sucking in great gobs of air into one’s engines just downwind of damaged parts.

    Not to mention that that polyethylene "cone-fairing" contains a lot of expensive and sensitive electronics. One's CO is unlikely to happy to hear that destroyed your very expensive aircraft's targeting system by headbutting a drone whilst playing chicken with it.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  22. #10312
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    533

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    [...] Thinking that the best way to avoid provoking an incident, is that for an aircraft heading directly at Crimea and Russian Airspace, one might [...]
    There is no Russian Airspace around.
    Gruß, Günter

  23. #10313
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by heimfried View Post
    There is no Russian Airspace around.
    No. However, there is a term like " restricted air space due to potential conflict or military operations".........much like the one the US has inside Syria. More of a polite request to stay away, it is not unusual.

  24. #10314
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: Ukraine

    You mean
    A no-fly zone, also known as a no-flight zone (NFZ), or air exclusion zone (AEZ), is a territory or area established by a military power over which certain aircraft are not permitted to fly.
    There is no no fly zone over the Black Sea.


  25. #10315
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Marblehead MA
    Posts
    3,391

    Default Re: Ukraine

    I don't think the cost of the drone is relevant.

    Most likely the appropriate US response is to send manned aircraft to perform the same mission and give them fighter escort. Just to show.

    It does not make much sense for us to tangle with a Russian manned aircraft over some idiot taking down a drone this way.

    Putin needs this conflict to be Russia vs the USA. He is on the record saying Ukraine not a nation and Ukrainians are not people. He's already killed at least 100,000 of them (soldiers, civilians, people who were displaced and died of disease or despair). It's important to him that if he loses he loses to the USA, not to a group of humans that are not people who come from a place that is not a nation.

    The USA is better served by a carefully measured response that shows capability but not hostility. So is Ukraine.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  26. #10316
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    29,744

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Sometimes, I’m still quite proud of the British Foreign Office:

    https://twitter.com/fionajlincs/stat...cVMQABVuL2BQuQ
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  27. #10317
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    35,791

    Default Re: Ukraine

    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  28. #10318
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    3,040

    Default Re: Ukraine

    The Russian offensive campaign assessment, March 15.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...-march-15-2023

    Key Takeaways

    • The overall pace of Russian operations in Ukraine appears to have decreased compared to previous weeks.
    • The overall Wagner Group offensive on Bakhmut appears to be nearing culmination.
    • International journalists reportedly obtained the Kremlin’s long-term strategy document for destabilizing and reintegrating Moldova back into the Russian sphere of influence by 2030.
    • Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin commented on the reports about the dismissal of the Russian Commander of the Airborne Forces Mikhail Teplinsky - likely revealing Teplinsky’s affiliation with Wagner.
    • The Russian State Duma adopted the law on punishment for “discreditation” of all participants of the “special military operation” in Ukraine on March 14 to foster self-censorship in Russian society.
    • Continued Russian efforts to portray the war in Ukraine as existential to Russian domestic security by establishing additional air defense installations in areas that will never see hostilities is reportedly sparking internal backlash.
    • Russian President Vladimir Putin used his March 15 meeting with the Russian Prosecutor General’s Office to continue to bolster his reputation as an involved and effective wartime leader.
    • Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Syrian President Bashar al Assad in Moscow, Russia on March 15.
    • Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks northwest of Svatove and conducted limited ground attacks on the Svatove-Kreminna line.
    • Russian forces continued advancing in and around Bakhmut and conducted ground attacks along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line.
    • A Russian milblogger claimed that Ukrainian forces attempted to conduct offensive actions across the Kakhovka Reservoir in Kherson Oblast.
    • The Kremlin reportedly tasked the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) to recruit 400,000 contract servicemen starting on April 1.
    • Ukrainian partisans killed a Russian collaborator in an IED attack in Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast.

  29. #10319
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    29,744

    Default Re: Ukraine

    “The Kremlin reportedly tasked the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) to recruit 400,000 contract servicemen starting on April 1.

    The Russian Government seems to have only one idea.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  30. #10320
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulgong. Central west N.S.W. Australia
    Posts
    7,244

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Negotiation Russian style.

  31. #10321
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,174

    Default Re: Ukraine

    I'm fairly critical of the unions in Australia, but this was a very interesting clip of a prominent Oz unionist, discussing her meetings with Pudlin and his vitriolic attitude towards the west

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-...rson/102031280

  32. #10322
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    29,744

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugs View Post
    I'm fairly critical of the unions in Australia, but this was a very interesting clip of a prominent Oz unionist, discussing her meetings with Pudlin and his vitriolic attitude towards the west

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-...rson/102031280
    That is interesting.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  33. #10323
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    381

  34. #10324
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    17,644

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Looks like unintentional. The jet was trying to dump more fuel on the drone and missed the maneuver.

  35. #10325
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,174

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Looks like unintentional. The jet was trying to dump more fuel on the drone and missed the maneuver.
    The Russian jet was attacking the drone. It's that simple. It wasn't using guns, it was using an explosive substance. An act of war.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •