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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #9066
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    You see things that are not there, like Twodot.
    Maybe one...

  2. #9067
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Did you catch how he proposes to do it? Being a potential leader of the free world with experience wielding the accompanying resources an all. He must have a plan.

    Or are we just playing a game of 'State the frikkin obvious'?
    Trump would talk nicely to his old pal Vlad, and agree to withdraw all military support - kompromat may or may not be involved.
    Without US support, Ukraine might be more inclined to seek an earlier negotiated end to the war on Russia's terms, instead of continuing on the current trajectory. Or something like that.
    Though I very much doubt Trump could actually achieve an end the war, any more than he was able to achieve a negotiated end to North Korean nuclear and missile testing, or a well planned exit from Afghanistan.

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  3. #9068
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    But in his teeny tiny little mind it would be beautiful and he would be a god- although possibly with carpet burn.

  4. #9069
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    “as a bonus” the MIC has even more money flowing into it for Act III. No bake sales for the Air Force no siree.
    Did we ever have a good proxy war? ISIS in Syria is still too gruesome to acknowledge, but the Contras, maybe the first to popularize the snuff films and death selfies in what went on to become social media, didn't turn out well. And too much of the Cocaine money went to D.C. and everybody else but supplies for our thugs in the field. Unlike the Afghan misadventures, I think our two alphabet agencies that run the dominant Mexican cartel actually net a profit. I think freeing up diamonds and gold from their legitimate contracts with European firms has also been a sustained profit center for sixth floor at the State Department throughout the 90's and 2000's.

    I checked into the volunteer programs to fight in Ukraine. I am much, much too old and personally was a drag upon our fully supplied US forces when I was in. But, they make the claim to Germans and Americans that they are lawfully integrating the volunteers into their national military. Unlike Uncle Sam and his contractors paid to randomly shoot civilians on the highway to the Baghdad Iraq airport. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2007/10/blac-o01.html , claiming background checks and a couple weeks pre-deployment training, Ukraine seems to be doing it right.

  5. #9070
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    Default

    Why the Leopard 2 is a great tank.

    https://youtu.be/VGzRfvgnS_s

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  6. #9071
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Relax, nobody is lying here. There are no liars here.
    Is that the mantra you repeat to yourself? Relax cupcake, you claim to be amongst friends, so what matter, they already probably know you lie.

    Reads something on internet, makes choice to spin it and claim true..........rather like a Trumper

    Has it pointed out the mistake in thinking............denies all knowledge and carries on, just like a Trumper

    Point out the people making claims have provided no evidence..........does not care. just like a Trumper

    Make a clear and concise explanation in a format a child could understand.........doubles down and deflects, just like a Trumper.

    Seeing as the people elected to position of President a well known lying reprobate, I am not surprised that i would at least come across a few on an American based forum, the odds were in favour.

    Relax, people can see you for what you are. If by some miracle you are not a Trumper, why are you acting like one? Walks like a duck...

    NOT about Ukraine.

  7. #9072
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    Is that the mantra you repeat to yourself? Relax cupcake, you claim to be amongst friends, so what matter, they already probably know you lie.

    Reads something on internet, makes choice to spin it and claim true..........rather like a Trumper

    Has it pointed out the mistake in thinking............denies all knowledge and carries on, just like a Trumper

    Point out the people making claims have provided no evidence..........does not care. just like a Trumper

    Make a clear and concise explanation in a format a child could understand.........doubles down and deflects, just like a Trumper.

    Seeing as the people elected to position of President a well known lying reprobate, I am not surprised that i would at least come across a few on an American based forum, the odds were in favour.

    Relax, people can see you for what you are. If by some miracle you are not a Trumper, why are you acting like one? Walks like a duck...

    NOT about Ukraine.
    None of that is about Ukraine.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  8. #9073
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    None of that is about Ukraine.
    He made a comment regarding "the cost" to Ukraine, and attempted to attribute it as something i said, ergo, he lied. Just putting the record straight.

  9. #9074
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    The ISW Russian offensive campaign assessment, January 27.
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...anuary-27-2023

    Key Takeaways

    • Kremlin insiders reportedly told Bloomberg that Russian President Vladimir Putin is preparing a new offensive to regain the initiative that may begin as early as February or March 2023.
    • The Kremlin confirmed that Russian President Vladimir Putin is issuing preemptive pardons for convicts who serve in Russian operations in Ukraine.
    • A visual investigation by a Russian opposition outlet confirmed that Russian authorities are deporting children from occupied Kherson Oblast to occupied Crimea.
    • Russian officials denied reported explosions near the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) on January 26.
    • The Russian military command is likely attempting to restrict mibloggers’ frontline coverage to regain control over the Russian information space ahead of the new offensive. These restrictions—if planned—are likely a part of the Chief of the Russian General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov’s efforts to professionalize the Russian Armed Forces.
    • Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations near Kreminna on January 26 and January 27.
    • Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut, on the western outskirts of Donetsk City, and in western Donetsk Oblast.
    • Russian sources did not report that Russian forces continued localized offensive operations in Zaporizhia Oblast on January 27.
    • Russian officials claimed that the conscription age will not change in the upcoming 2023 spring conscription cycle.
    • Russian occupation authorities are continuing to intensify efforts to integrate occupied territories into the Russian legal and administrative structures.

  10. #9075
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    • A visual investigation by a Russian opposition outlet confirmed that Russian authorities are deporting children from occupied Kherson Oblast to occupied Crimea.
    I feel sick even thinking about the possibility this could be "human shield" tactic.

  11. #9076
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    End March, April, Is the spring thaw?

    i wasn't as tuned into these matters this time last year. Was't it in the mud that Ukraine surged and Russia stumbled that time last year?
    The Challenger II was conceived as a “defence” tank, so to speak. That’s why it’s a bit bigger and heavier and slightly slower than the other NATO tanks. It was intended to lurk in cover, move from one hiding place to the next, and stop T72s, T80s and T90s, which it has done.

    Since Ukraine will not have enough NATO tanks to attack for a while, my guess is that Ukraine will use its handful of Challengers in that role - helping to stop a Russian advance - to start with.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  12. #9077
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    I feel sick even thinking about the possibility this could be "human shield" tactic.
    As I have pointed out previously, that source is thoroughly Neo-Con,

    the very same people who lied us into Iraq. And they also were hip-deep in the 2014 Ukr coup.

    A person would have to be nuts to believe a word of what they write.

  13. #9078
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Why the Leopard 2 is a great tank. ]
    Short-sightednes alert . . .

    The Germans are so good at war that their remilitarization should in no way be encouraged.

    (Same goes for Japan)

    Who knows what sort of government they might have in 15 or 20 years ??

  14. #9079
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    As I have pointed out previously, that source is thoroughly Neo-Con,

    the very same people who lied us into Iraq. And they also were hip-deep in the 2014 Ukr coup.
    I did notice that many of those reports are mostly full of, "possible", "alleged", "suspected", "believed" etc. While tacitly admitting they could be wrong, also painting the worst possible scenario.

    If Syria was anything to go by, human shields do not work....

  15. #9080
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Interesting piece in the Atlantic Monthly.

    https://apple.news/ADB1tO1gOQ9yYTuSzNMh6Tw

    TANKS FOR UKRAINE HAVE SHIFTED THE BALANCE OF POWER IN EUROPE
    Smaller countries forced NATO’s greatest powers to give Ukraine the vehicles it needs.

    By Phillips Payson O’Brien
    JANUARY 27, 2023

    When the German and U.S. governments finally agreed this week to supply some of their most formidable battle tanks to Ukraine, the balance of power within Europe perceptibly shifted. For months, President Joe Biden and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, fearing an escalation of conflict between the West and Russia, had stubbornly put off Ukrainian requests for the powerful, highly maneuverable vehicles, and the European states most directly vulnerable to Russian aggression—in Scandinavia, the Baltic region, and Central and Eastern Europe—had grown more and more frustrated with Washington and Berlin. Finally, the smaller countries had had enough. In an impressive show of diplomatic muscle, they forced NATO’s two greatest powers to take a step that Biden and especially Scholz have clearly been afraid of taking.

    The episode is a reminder that a security alliance isn’t just a means for major powers, such as the U.S. or Germany, to amplify their own influence by drawing on the forces of smaller nations. In this case, some of NATO’s smaller members and partners understand the Russian threat far more clearly than the U.S. or Germany does, because they don’t have the option of complacency.

    Since the start of the war, Germany and the U.S. have tried to give Ukraine enough military aid to perform well on the battlefield, but not so much that the Ukrainians can drive Russian forces out of all of occupied Ukraine—including areas that Russia occupied in 2014. Washington and Berlin have kept sending the same mixed signals: Russia cannot win the war, and Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose, but in the end, the defenders might have to make some significant concessions to the invaders to secure a peace deal.

    That message has sounded more and more discordant to states to Germany’s north and east. The longer the war has gone on, and the more grotesque the crimes and destruction that the Russian government has been willing to commit against its neighbor and ostensible “little brother,” Ukraine, the more these states have become convinced that Russia must not only be denied a victory but be defeated outright. During the 20th century, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were incorporated into the Soviet Union against their will. Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia were ruled as Soviet vassals during the Cold War. These countries’ leaders instinctively understand the threat of Russian imperialism, and take Moscow’s rhetoric about national expansion and greatness as the menace that it is. They want to see Russian power broken.

    Four Nordic countries—Finland, Sweden, Denmark, and Norway—all have their own well-established reasons for unease about Russia. After World War II, Finland and Sweden opted for (or felt obliged to opt for) a neutral stance in the Cold War, staying out of NATO and hoping that, in exchange, Moscow would respect their independence. Norway uncomfortably shares a border with Russia. Denmark, which controls access to the Baltic Sea, has long had to contend with the presence of Russian military force.
    When all of these states saw how easily and with what brutality Vladimir Putin ripped up the post-1945 rule book, embarking on an unnecessary war of national expansion while openly discussing the cultural genocide of another people, their old inhibitions dropped away.

    Finland might be the most remarkable member of this new coalition. For decades, Helsinki studiously avoided doing anything to offend the Soviet Union, to the point that Finlandization became shorthand for when a smaller country partially acquiesces to a larger power in the hope of avoiding too much interference in its own internal affairs. However, as soon as Putin ordered the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Finnish government reacted with vigor. It quickly applied for NATO membership—which is almost sure to be granted, regardless of the recent stance of the Turkish and Hungarian governments. Of all world leaders, Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin has expressed the need to counter the Russian threat most bluntly. She has regretted European Union weakness in opposing Russian actions in Ukraine since 2014 and said that Ukrainian membership in NATO would have prevented the present crisis. She has openly called for Russia’s defeat, saying that its withdrawal from Ukrainian territory is “the way out of the conflict.” Without hesitation, she recently tied her own country’s security to Ukraine’s. “We don’t know when the war will end, but we have to make sure that the Ukrainians will win,” Marin said. “I don’t think there’s any other choice. If Russia would win the war, then we would only see decades of this kind of behavior ahead of us.”

    Similar sentiments are coming out of Warsaw, Tallinn, Stockholm, and other capitals in Eastern and Northern Europe. If anything, these governments’ positions have been hardening. The Baltic states, which have consistently given the largest percentage of their defense budgets to aid Ukraine, worked together to persuade Germany to give its advanced Leopard battle tanks to Ukraine. Sweden, maybe most surprisingly, raised the pressure noticeably with a pledge to give the Ukrainians its highly accurate Archer artillery system.

    For a while, the U.S. and Germany refused to budge. The Biden administration promised a large number of fighting vehicles, including Bradley armored personnel carriers, but not the Abrams battle tank. Berlin hemmed and hawed, even throwing up new and unexpected conditions on the transfer of Leopards to Ukraine by allied governments. As the NATO states were gathering at Ramstein Air Base in Germany late last week to discuss their latest Ukraine-aid packages, Scholz’s government was insisting that it could not provide Leopards to Ukraine until the U.S. first offered its own battle tanks. This position created the impression in many circles that Berlin was still desperate to protect its relationship with Moscow.

    But other European countries simply would not let up. In what became known as the Tallinn Pledge, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands joined NATO states in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia in calling for Russia to be pushed out of all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea and other areas occupied before last February 24. Always a leader in the anti-Russian coalition, Poland formally asked Germany to let it convey its own Leopards to Ukraine, and other states discussed doing so even without requesting permission.

    Faced with this open revolt, in a breathtaking two days, the U.S. and Germany caved. In addition to granting other nations’ requests, Germany started planning on directly transferring tanks of its own. Then, Biden publicly offered 31 Abrams tanks. Other European states, including Portugal and Spain, immediately piled on with offers of even more tanks.

    A new force has emerged in Europe. By acceding to their smaller allies’ demands, Germany and the U.S. are belatedly recognizing a slow but relentless shift in the Western approach toward Russia—which is being determined not in Washington or Berlin but in the capitals of countries that, until recently, have been seen as junior partners. Moreover, these new drivers of European security strategy are unlikely to ease up. They are among Europe’s richest and fastest-growing economies and have some of the continent’s best-equipped militaries. Plus, they will always have Russia close by, and that reality alone will keep them focused.

    [Phillips Payson O’Brien is a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of How the War Was Won: Air-Sea Power and Allied Victory in World War II.]
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  16. #9081
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    I feel sick even thinking about the possibility this could be "human shield" tactic.
    I agree & sure hope it isn't. That being said, stealing kids from their parents alone is abhorrent.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  17. #9082
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Russia cannot win the war, and Ukraine cannot be allowed to lose, but in the end, the defenders might have to make some significant concessions to the invaders to secure a peace deal.

    That message has sounded more and more discordant to states to Germany’s north and east. The longer the war has gone on, and the more grotesque the crimes and destruction that the Russian government has been willing to commit against its neighbor and ostensible “little brother,” Ukraine, the more these states have become convinced that Russia must not only be denied a victory but be defeated outright.
    Like I said. It's been clear from the beginning. All that has happened was implicit in the invasion per se.

    1. Have an exit plan, step one of which is defining the objective to be acheived.
    2. Go in with overwhelming force.

    This dithering costs the lives of the innocent and the brave.
    Long live the rights of man.

  18. #9083
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Short-sightednes alert . . .

    The Germans are so good at war that their remilitarization should in no way be encouraged.

    (Same goes for Japan)

    Who knows what sort of government they might have in 15 or 20 years ??
    They do have a history of losing though.

  19. #9084
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Another essay from Atlantic Monthly:

    https://apple.news/Ac8BgxSHkQayhAKdnia_7DQ

    TO DEFEND CIVILIZATION, DEFEAT RUSSIA
    Ukraine needs any weapon its troops can learn to use, including tanks, to hold the line on the international order and the world’s safety.

    By Tom Nichols
    JANUARY 23, 2023

    No Other Choice

    I don’t often find myself agreeing with Senator Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina conservative who long ago rebranded himself as Donald Trump’s faithful valet and No. 1 fan. Last week, however, Graham lashed out in frustration at the dithering in Europe and America over sending more weapons to Ukraine. “I am tired of the **** show surrounding who is going to send tanks and when they’re gonna send them,” he said during a press conference in Kyiv, flanked by Democratic Senators Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. “World order is at stake. [Vladimir] Putin is trying to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms.”

    Graham is right. Germany, for example, has been reluctant to send Leopard tanks to Ukraine; the Germans, for their part, would likely prefer to see the United States send American tanks first. But everyone in the West should be sending anything the Ukrainians can learn to use, because a lot more than mere order is at stake, and order, by itself, is not enough. As Rousseau wrote, “Tranquility is found also in dungeons,” but that does not make dungeons desirable places to live. Global civilization itself is on the line: the world built after the defeat of the Axis, in which, for all of our faults as nations and peoples, we strive to live in peace and cooperation—and, at the least, to not butcher one another. If Russia’s campaign of terror and other likely war crimes erases Ukraine, it will be a defeat of the first order for every institution of international life, be it the United Nations or the international postal union.

    I suspect that many people in Europe and the United States are having a hard time getting their arms around the magnitude of this threat. We are all afflicted by normalcy bias, our inherent resistance to accept that large changes can upend our lives. I struggled with this in the early stages of the war; I thought Ukraine would probably lose quickly, and then when the Russians were repulsed by the heroic Ukrainian defenses, I hoped (in vain) that the fighting would fizzle out, that Putin would try to conserve what was left of his shattered military, and that the world’s institutions, damaged by yet another act of Russian barbarism, would somehow continue to limp along.

    We’re long past such possibilities. Putin has made clear that he will soak the ground of East-Central Europe with blood—both of Ukrainians and of his own hapless mobiks, the recently mobilized draftees he’s sending into the military meat grinder—if that’s what it takes to subjugate Kyiv and end the Kremlin’s unexpected and ongoing humiliation. At this point, the fight in Ukraine is not about borders or flags but about what kind of world we’ve built over the past century, and whether that world can sustain itself in the face of limitless brutality. As the Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin said in Davos last week: “We don’t know when the war ends, but Ukraine has to win. I don’t see another choice.”

    Neither do I, and it’s past time to send Ukraine even more and better weapons. (Or, as my colleague David Frum tweeted last June: “If there’s anything that Ukraine can use in any NATO warehouse from Vancouver to Vilnius, that’s a scandal. Empty every inventory.”) I say all this despite my concerns about escalation to a wider European and even global war. I still oppose direct U.S. and NATO intervention in this fight, and I have taken my share of criticism for that reticence. I do not fear that such measures will instantly provoke World War III. Rather, I reject proposals that I think could increase the odds of an accident or a miscalculation that could bring the superpowers into a nuclear standoff that none of them wants. (Putin, for all his bluster, has no interest in living out his last days eating dry rations in a dark fallout shelter, but that does not mean he is competent at assessing risks.)

    Americans and their allies must face how far a Russian victory would extend beyond Ukraine. In a recent discussion with my old friend Andrew Michta (a scholar of European affairs who is now dean at the George C. Marshall European Center for Security Studies, in Germany), he referred to the conflict in Ukraine as a “system-transforming” war, as Russian aggression dissolves the last illusions of a stable European order that were perhaps too quickly embraced in the immediate post–Cold War euphoria. Andrew has always been less sanguine about the post–World War II international order than old-school institutionalists like me, but he has a point: The pessimists after 1991 were right about Russia and its inability to live in peace with its neighbors. If Ukraine loses, dictators elsewhere will draw the lesson that the West has lost its will to defend its friends—and itself.

    If Russia finally captures Ukraine by mass murder, torture, and nuclear threats, then everything the world has gained since the defeat of the Axis in 1945 and the end of the Cold War in 1991 will be in mortal peril. Putin will prove to himself and to every dictator on the planet that nothing has changed since Hitler, that lawless nations can achieve their aims by using force at will, by killing and raping innocent people and then literally grinding their ashes into the dirt. This is no longer about Russia’s neo-imperial dreams or Ukraine’s borders: This is a fight for the future of the international system and the safety of us all.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  20. #9085
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I agree & sure hope it isn't. That being said, stealing kids from their parents alone is abhorrent.
    I never saw anything like that in Luhansk, but that was 4 years ago. Over 2 million people moved to Russia, many others went Westwards. Unwilling deportation is a crime.

  21. #9086
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Short-sightednes alert . . .

    The Germans are so good at war that their remilitarization should in no way be encouraged.

    (Same goes for Japan)

    Who knows what sort of government they might have in 15 or 20 years ??
    I will make an exception to my rule of not quoting trolls, because I want to bash this excrescence down firmly.

    Anyone here who has ever visited Germany or Japan or even has a friend in either country knows that this is just plain silly.

    Neither Germany nor Japan is remotely likely to remove the sort of government that they have had for the last seventy years and suddenly embark on warlike adventures.

    In fact these nations, along with Switzerland and Sweden, both once noted for military prowess and a willingness to use it, are the nations least likely to overthrow their representative democracies, succumb to a outburst of nationalism and invade somewhere else.

    The United States and Britain are far more like to do so. And they are both much better at war. We won, remember?
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    EU sending 50 tanks is going to change anything in the big picture. Who is going to be the first EU nation to explicitly state (not by accident), "we are at war with Russia"?

    As far as Russia is concerned, they are already fighting NATO. Statistically, without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine will run out of bodies long before Russia does.

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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I will make an exception to my rule of not quoting trolls, because I want to bash this excrescence down firmly.

    In fact these nations, along with Switzerland and Sweden, both once noted for military prowess and a willingness to use it, are the nations least likely to overthrow their representative democracies, succumb to a outburst of nationalism and invade somewhere else.
    You may wish to revisit your opinion . No one in Sweden 10 years ago would have imagined a government that would include so many members from the far Left, the outburst of Nationalism is ongoing.

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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I will make an exception to my rule of not quoting trolls, because I want to bash this excrescence down firmly. ?
    Your repeated personal attacks upon those with whom you disagree are once again duly noted.

    I could just as easily call you a troll, but that would be quite immature of me.

    In fact nationalist extremeism is on the rise in both Germany and Japan, especially the latter.

  25. #9090
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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    EU sending 50 tanks is going to change anything in the big picture. Who is going to be the first EU nation to explicitly state (not by accident), "we are at war with Russia"?

    As far as Russia is concerned, they are already fighting NATO. Statistically, without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine will run out of bodies long before Russia does.
    Well having quoted one troll I may as well quote the other one.

    Russian propaganda likes to claim that their state is “at war with NATO”. As several cartoonists have pointed out, this cannot be true, because Russia is still here. It need not be a nuclear war; NATO can roll up Russia’s conventional army, navy and air force in days. Be it exploding tanks or the self igniting aircraft carrier or the rather accident prone war planes,
    Russian military equipment is garbage and the military industrial complex needed to support Russian armed forces is a ghost of its former self. The official NATO response to Russian threats of nuclear weapons is that if Russia uses a nuclear weapon of any sort NATO will eliminate the Russian armed forces without using a nuclear weapon.

    As to Ukraine running out of manpower first, check the casualty figures - none of them official of course - and it looks a bit like 5 Russians per Ukrainian. Ukraine is using NATO style military medicine because that was the first thing the UAF were taught after the invasion in 2014. Russia is not.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  26. #9091
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    Upon perusing the bilge one would never know that the Ukr-Russia war is not popular everywhere . .

    that is incorrect.

    [Edit - Usually Croatia and Serbia are best enemies and agree on almost nothing. Why did the Croatian Prez feel moved to say the following?]

    BELGRADE, Serbia

    The decision this week by the US, Germany, and other Western countries to send tanks to Ukraine will only make the war drag on for longer, according to Croatia’s president.
    "This will only prolong the war. If the US and Russia can’t agree, which is not on the horizon, the war won’t end," said Zoran Milanovic on Thursday during a visit to a factory in the capital Zagreb.
    Milanovic said that European Union member states will never take part in these issues.
    "According to some, World War III has begun. I will keep out of this issue. As for the tanks, Russian tanks and US tanks can equally well burn," he said.
    The US announced on Wednesday that it will send Abrams tanks to Ukraine, while Germany, Spain, and Norway said they will also supply it with heavy Leopard 2 tanks.
    Ukraine has been pressing for the tanks for some time, along with other weapons, arguing that they are needed to fight off an expected Russian offensive this spring.
    Last edited by sandtown; 01-28-2023 at 03:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Well having quoted one troll I may as well quote the other one.
    Despite the claimed education, the lineage to a US war commander ,the mixings with royalty and government, yet unable of polite conversation, it is no wonder you are so out of touch of on the ground movements in some parts of the EU. You can not even claim expertise on using the ignore function.

  28. #9093
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    17,436

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Suggestion for the reading list: How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie.

    In print since first published in 1936, with more than 30,000,000 copies sold. Still sells north of 250,000 copies per year.

    https://www.simonandschuster.com/boo.../9781982171452

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  29. #9094
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    281

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Heres another.


  30. #9095
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    35,142

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Russia wants Ukraine under it's thumb, and Ukraine wants Russia to back off and respect Ukrainian sovereignty. However you want to look at it, it is going to escalate.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  31. #9096
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,579

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Johan R View Post
    You may wish to revisit your opinion . No one in Sweden 10 years ago would have imagined a government that would include so many members from the far Left, the outburst of Nationalism is ongoing.
    Didn't you mean to write . . . "the far Right"?

  32. #9097
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Ukraine

    My prayers are with all the brave Ukrainians which are defending their country all these 11 months.
    For those who want to do more than a prayer , here is a way to help - https://cartodonate.com has an information how you can donate your old car for medical and military needs in Ukraine. Let's don't forget that they are fighting for all of us, for a better world .
    Last edited by mike9199; 02-08-2023 at 03:13 AM.

  33. #9098
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    35,142

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    Didn't you mean to write . . . "the far Right"?
    I wondered about that.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  34. #9099
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    29,407

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Four factories in four cities in Iran have … accidentally … caught fire and exploded.

    Karaj, air force base
    Isfahan, munitions factory
    Karaj, air force base
    Tabriz, military industrial plant.
    Azarshahr, petrochemical plant.

    It seems Iran’s air defence system, operated of course by the Revolutionary Guards, is excellent at shooting down a Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 that had just taken off from Tehran and killing 176 people but is not so good at hitting Ukrainian Air Force drones.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 01-28-2023 at 06:47 PM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  35. #9100
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,579

    Default Re: Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Woodward View Post
    Putin is the only one that can end this war. He can either win or withdraw. There is no other options.
    Would it be too awfully much bother to leave that up to the Ukrainians ??

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