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Thread: I'm starting to think it's over

  1. #36
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Hope but caution yet.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Most people who understand pandemics think this one is practically over. They are cautious about saying so in as many words because people might think it is over now and go out and be foolish. But by March things should be back to normal, except there will be 5 cold viruses circulating instead of 4.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-afric...mic/a-60502713

    The fourth wave of infections has been slowing in South Africa, and life is gradually returning to normal for the first time since the pandemic's start in 2020.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    ...except there will be 5 cold viruses circulating instead of 4.
    Do we have any reason to believe that future occurances of the 'fifth cold' will less severe than the currently still raging virus, and not fatal for the unvaxxed in the future?
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Yes. Most people will have been vaccinated, or had covid before, or both. Smart people will have taken annual boosters. Very few will be naive to the virus.

    The other 4 cold coronaviruses also started out as deadly pandemics.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I sincerely hope you're right, but it's not looking good here right now, for the same old bad reasons. Omicron may be less deadly, but the hospitals are full to bulging again, overwhelmingly with the unvaccinated. All too Darwinian.
    What does vaccinations have to do with it? Omicron is well documented for its breakthrough capabilities. It is very infectious. I know someone that was vaccinated and then got COVID about 9 months ago - he just got Omicron despite natural immunities and vaccination.

    50-65% of those in the hospital with Covid were hospitalized for another reason , but also tested positive. If you break your leg and you come back with a positive COVID test, its not really the Covid that is responsible for the hospitalization.

    When Omicron was first identified, the South African Health official urged people not to panic because is seemed milder though more infectious. Subsequent data has supported this conclusion. Will people die from it? Sure. And some will die from the flu and from drunk driving and from stroke and from ebola. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we are in any more of a crises than we are with drunk driving or seasonal flu.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Did the CDC not walk their initial agreement that omicron was milder? Milder for those vaxxed and boosted, but otherwise lethal and filling the ERs and ICUs and overwhelming healthcare faciliites across the country. Or has that changed now that eveyone is immune due to prior infection, which has now been shown to subside after a few months without a boost?
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Did he go to the hospital? Because, Keith was talking about hospitalizations. And, immunizations help against hospitalization, something like 90%.
    Keith also mentioned the absence of vaccinations, hence my comment "What does vaccinations have to do with it?" Omicron has a high breakthrough rate.


    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Source please.

    https://www.boston.com/news/coronavi...at-that-means/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...eading/620062/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...cs-incidental/


    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    . The ebola whataboutism was precious. The graphs for covid-19 deaths show a curve with a steep upswing, correlating with the omicron wave. There is no steep upswing for ebola deaths in the USA...ever.
    Whataboutism is an overused tactic to avoid dealing with the facts, but even if it wern't this is a total misuse of
    "Whataboutism"
    Last edited by Boatbum; 01-24-2022 at 10:15 AM.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Did the CDC not walk their initial agreement that omicron was milder? Milder for those vaxxed and boosted, but otherwise lethal and filling the ERs and ICUs and overwhelming healthcare faciliites across the country. Or has that changed now that eveyone is immune due to prior infection, which has now been shown to subside after a few months without a boost?

    In hospitals around the country, doctors are taking notice: This wave of Covid seems different from the last one.

    Once again, as they face the highly contagious Omicron variant, medical personnel are exhausted and are contracting the virus themselves. And the numbers of patients entering hospitals with the variant are surging to staggering levels, filling up badly needed beds, delaying nonemergency procedures and increasing the risk that vulnerable uninfected patients will catch the virus.

    But in Omicron hot spots from New York to Florida to Texas, a smaller proportion of those patients are landing in intensive care units or requiring mechanical ventilation, doctors said.And many — roughly 50 to 65 percent of admissions in some New York hospitals— show up at the hospital for other ailments and then test positive for the virus.

    “We are seeing an increase in the number of hospitalizations,” said Dr. Rahul Sharma, emergency physician in chief for NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell hospital. But the severity of the disease looks different from previous waves, he said. “We’re not sending as many patients to the I.C.U., we’re not intubating as many patients, and actually, most of our patients that are coming to the emergency department that do test positive are actually being discharged.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/04/h...lizations.html

  10. #45
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Yeah, a lot of 'fly specks' in the pepper here.

    Bottom line - those ending up in critical care, or ICU, overwhelmingly are the unvaxxed.

    You may* have a breakthrough infect if vaxxed - but generally (there are contingencies) have a much milder course.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  11. #46
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Considering that I know of several people who are currently suffering from COVID - including students at an elementary school, a few friends both vaccinated and un-vaccinated, and two 30 year old individuals who recently passed away from COVID, I'm not counting my chickens yet.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  12. #47
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Sure, but the 'money shot' - who is 'ill', vs who is hospitalized, vs who is dying?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  13. #48
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Most of my near family and friends have or have had covid this year. Everyone is vaccinated, but persons younger than 50 typically hadn't had the opportunity to get a booster shot. Those of us who have avoided getting sick have had booster shots. None have been hospitalised and I'm not worried at all.

    Our statistics say that a majority of those who are hospitalised are not vaccinated, in spite of 90% being vaccinated in the age groups that are hospitalised. The risk to get hospitalised for covid-19 is about 10 times higher if you're not vaccinated.

    Do we have any reason to believe that future occurances of the 'fifth cold' will less severe than the currently still raging virus, and not fatal for the unvaxxed in the future?
    My initial reaction to this is that I really don't care; get vaxxed. Anyway, omicron is now dominating over delta and we're seeing a reduced number of hospitalisations with CV-19 as the primary diagnosis in spite of the number of newly infected increasing and the number of not vaccinated persons remaining the same. My conclusion is that omicron is less severe than delta. Whatever comes in the future is beyond me.
    /Erik

  14. #49
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Sure, but the 'money shot' - who is 'ill', vs who is hospitalized, vs who is dying?
    Hard to tell around here, actually. Supposedly, the number of vaccinations around here are 76% of the population. ("Completed vaccination with two dose or one does regimen") I'm not sure what percentage are boosted.

    I did get a notice from the medical group that they are "full, but still providing emergency care". Three large local hospitals are described as having no free bed space and are limiting any non-urgent procedures.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  15. #50
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  16. #51
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  17. #52
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Do we have any reason to believe that future occurances of the 'fifth cold' will less severe than the currently still raging virus, and not fatal for the unvaxxed in the future?
    We do to some extent. First of all, it is a corona virus. This virus is starting to behave, IMO, like a more normal corona virus, ie upper respiratory infection more often than lower. Also, it seems to me, with Omicron, that the severe cases are less severe, ie fewer hospitalizations and deaths, BUT the typical case is a little more severe in regards to how long it takes to get over it. Now, I will admit this is anecdotal, and I know exceptions, but I know a boat load of people who have had covid in the past 6 weeks, and quite a few over the preceding 18 months. Until recently, the sever cases were definitely severe: long covid, long hospital stays, ICU, ventilators, death... But the typical case, especially for those who were not at risk, may have been quite bad for 3 or 4 days, but that was about it. Almost always it was severe, or it was over in less than a few days. Now its just the opposite. I do not know anyone who has been hospitalized, and I know dozens who have been sick over the last 6 weeks. And it is taking people a week or two to recover, that is not unusual at all. Certainly, worse than a cold. But we have all had colds which we cannot shake for 2 or 3 weeks. So in that sense, its more like a cold, ie a typical corona virus. As it becomes less novel, will its severity be like a cold, I think there is a good chance.

    Which means our immunity will gradually wear off over 3 or 4 years, we will get infected again but have plenty of immunity to fight off the disease, we will be recharged and the cycle will repeat. That's what happens with existing corona viruses.

    The 1889 Russian flu pandemic was likely one of the two corona viruses that cause the cold,but was novel at that time. It took 6 years to burn out worldwide, but it never went away, our bodies just adapted to it. We all get it now. That pandemic killed 1 million people in a population of 1.5 billion.
    Will we need repetitive boosters? I doubt it, although they may become standard medical practice for elderly, diabetics, etc.

    FYI, my father had triple bypass surgery 2 and 1/2 weeks ago, the hospital was well under 1/2 full and while he was in ICU, the isolation rooms were empty. That was 2 weeks ago, and the current wave has gotten worse, but there were news stories about overflowing hospitals and I did not see that. Now, he felt bad Thursday night, lots of coughing (which is very painful considering his chest had been split open 14 days prior) so I took him to the local clinic to get his GP to check him. Positive for covid. That clinic was overflowing, and I was only allowed in because he is 85 years old. Then drove him to get a monoclonal antibody injection. I suppose that did the trick, on Saturday morning he wanted me to drive him around the farm to check the cows. He got in and out of the pickup to open gates, etc. He is feeling no effects of covid now.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    I'm not so sure. It can mutate again, no?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    I'm not so sure. It can mutate again, no?
    The question is if the covid-19 virus can mutate so much that our now sensitised immune systems won't recognise it. Maybe it can, or maybe not. Is it still the covid-19 virus if it mutates too much? There can always be a completely new virus that is novel to our immune systems; it has happened before in history and it's likely to happen again. It's soon time to stop worrying over this specific virus.
    /Erik

  20. #55
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    It sure can. The 1918 flu exhausred itself, maybe by killing all the vulnerable early on? I don't think that science could tell whether there were other strains involved at that time but the opinion is that succeeding mutations lose their potency. We should hope they are correct.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Uh, you brought up ebola.

    I could just as easily used vehicle deaths, or the flu, which you also brought up.

    You need to argue that, after over 700,000 deaths in the USA due to covid-19 in less than two years, we now can ignore it and society can tolerate the excess deaths due to the disease.
    As an example of OTHER THINGS THAT KILL PEOPLE TOO!

    I also brought up deaths by drunk driving and the flue. They were examples. If that is the best you got then you are wasting my time and yours.

    HAs nothing to do with Whataboutism, a total misuse of the word despite its limited value and great overuse. Mostly used by people that cannot disagree with facts.
    Last edited by Boatbum; 01-24-2022 at 03:49 PM.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Mixing your apples with your pineapples - a tactic generally employed by those out of their depth, or simply trolling.

    Which begets these responses.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  23. #58
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    https://news.ohsu.edu/2022/01/25/new...ty-to-covid-19

    “It makes no difference whether you get infected and then vaccinated, or if you get vaccinated and then a breakthrough infection,” said co-senior author Fikadu Tafesse, Ph.D., assistant professor of molecular microbiology and immunology in the OHSU School of Medicine. “In either case, you will get a really, really robust immune response — amazingly high.”
    Since we will all catch omicron sooner or later - probably sooner, or already had it - the vaccinated among us will have "super immunity" and can return to normalcy.

    For the unvaccinated, Darwin.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    The only difference in that scenario - in the first, you *may* get quite ill, before vax and super immunity; in the second, very likely not.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  25. #60
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Now in the news, a new variant of omicron, the one we've grown to know and love is A and the new one is B and of course the early indications, like for A, are that it is not as severe even if it spreads rapidly.

    The question also pending, as Erik mentioned in post #57 above, is how ready will we, society and government, be when the next novel virus comes along, as it surely will, and our vaccines for this current set are not applicable, and the process of ramping up at the pharmaceuticals to build another new vaccine begins again. Will we be as ready to don masks and limit travel and activities, or will we be as blithe and cavalier about the next one as we were for this current three-year nightmare? Which leads me to wonder if president Biden will rebuild the US's global effort to do research and support the WHO prepping for the next one, and reverse trmp's wanton misguided pillaging to reduce 'regulations?'

    It might be interesting to hear how Dr Fauci would respond, if, say, you got him drunk at his retirement party, and button-holed him to discuss how different the past three years might've been had Hillary been elected to the presidency rather than the ignorant pirate that slithered past her with Putin's help.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Sounds like a fun party. The big thing about 'B' is - it's even a bit more contagious than 'A', about the same virulence - but the changes on it's surface make it more difficult to sub-type with current pcr tests.

    AFA 'future response and applications' - the way the R's have politicized everything, torn down any semblance of an established CDC and pandemic team - with every indication they will do so, again, 'when' they get back into power - no, we will have to re-invent the response for the next pandemic.

    AFA 'how will 'we' respond' - that likely depends on nations. Asia learned a long time ago how to distance/mask etc.. But they don't love their 'freedom' like we do - so we got that going for us.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  27. #62
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

    Interesting - on the face of it (before dissection, etc.), it appears numbers of new infections, nationwide, are dropping (down 14% over 14 days) - while number of deaths continues to climb (up 35%, over 14 days).
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  28. #63
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

    Interesting - on the face of it (before dissection, etc.), it appears numbers of new infections, nationwide, are dropping (down 14% over 14 days) - while number of deaths continues to climb (up 35%, over 14 days).
    Well, we know hospitalization and deaths are lagging indicators, right?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    I'll help complicating the issue.

    We've diagnosed about 500.000 new covid cases in Sweden during these last two weeks. We don't have sufficient test capacity to test every suspected case with symptoms so there should be quite a few not tested cases. Let's assume that we've actually had 700.000 new covid cases during these last two weeks. The infection is usually over in a couple of days but I expect dead viruses to remain a couple of weeks and give positive test results. There are 10 million of us. Testing random Swedes now would therefore turn up about 7% positives.

    People generally die in hospitals or nursery homes. Everybody are PCR tested in those institutions and all who die with positive PCR tests in the near history are registered as covid-19 deaths. We've had 256 such deaths during the last two weeks.

    0.9% of our population die every year from one cause or another. 0,9% of 10M during one year corresponds to about 3500 during 2 weeks. 7% of that is 245 deaths.

    So almost all of the Covid-19 deaths we're currently having in Sweden seems to not be excess deaths. Most people who die are very old or have some comorbidity. Almost all of them are triple vaccinated, so maybe the omicron is just like a severe cold virus to them.

    The point I'm trying to make is that when you have a very high percentage of the population infected, you should expect the same high percentage of the deaths to test positive for that virus even if it did not contribute to the deaths.
    /Erik

  30. #65
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    I'd disagree with most of your WAG's. And fwiw - 'excess deaths' is not 'mostly from old/comorbid' cases.

    And most of your other assumptions/extrapolations appear wrong. Last week, we were hearing 30% positive rates on testing - and in our own clinic, 50%. That was in population presenting ill, or with exposure.

    This Dr. gets it right:

    https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...spDxjwQDSpa3fQ
    What now? How pandemics end

    It looks like Omicron has peaked in the United States and in many countries across the globe. Case patterns may uptick with the introduction of subvariant lineage, BA.2, but with a little luck we will largely be on our descent. And I can’t help but notice my inbox piled with great questions: Is this the end? What’s next? How do we prepare?

    It’s taken me longer than I want to admit to gather my thoughts. These are warranted, simple, legitimate questions with very complex answers. So, for what it’s worth, here is my attempt…
    Is this the end?

    In order to know how this will end, we need to look at how other pandemics ended. First, recognize the last part of that sentence…pandemics end. Every epi curve comes down. This pandemic will end, too. Hold that fact close to you.

    However, “pandemic ends” look and feel very different depending on the time period, the global response, the individual-level response, and the virus itself. Broadly “pandemic ends” can be placed into three categories:
    Faded away. There have been several viruses that… faded away. An example of this was SARS. It started in 2002 and while it was mainly concentrated in Asia, it did spread across the world. A short 1.5 years later the SARS pandemic ended. The virus was stopped largely due to an effective, global public health response: Testing, isolating and quarantining, and restricting travel. These strategies were particularly effective because of the intrinsic properties of the virus: Symptomatic people spread SARS. So, if someone was sick, they knew it and isolated. This is unlike SARS-CoV-2 where we have many asymptomatic people spreading the virus. If the globe worked together, very early on, we could have eradicated SARS-CoV-2 through public health mitigation measures alone. But, this option has long gone.

    Vaccines. We’ve stopped other viruses through universal vaccination. For example, in the mid 1940’s, polio killed ~60,000 people a year which equated to a case fatality rate of 15-30%. Then in 1955, a 90% effective vaccine was introduced and people lined up for the vaccine. This largely got polio under control and by 1979 it was eradicated in the United States. Polio is still around in small pockets around the world, but I’m optimistic it will be eradicated globally soon. Smallpox is also a textbook example of eradicating a virus through vaccination. It takes time though. And teamwork. If the globe works together, we could possibly eradicate SARS-CoV-2 with vaccines. (Now that we have numerous animal reservoirs, though, this is close to impossible).

    Endemic. Other pandemics end by going into an endemic state, like the 1918 flu. During the first two years of the 1918 pandemic, case fatality rate ranged from 10-20% and caused more than 50 million deaths worldwide. Over time, the virus attenuated; it became less severe. Today we still have descendent strains of the 1918 flu floating around but the case fatality rate is ~0.1%. And, as a society, we’ve accepted this level of mortality (even though we don’t necessarily have to). Some have even used the flu as a benchmark during this pandemic to define “mild disease”.


    The vast majority of scientists think an endemic state is the future of SARS-CoV-2. I agree. However, there are a number of misconceptions about what “endemic” means, making it the most misused word of the pandemic (after “herd immunity”). Just because endemic contains “end” doesn’t means this is the end. This isn’t game over; this doesn’t mean we will have zero cases; it doesn’t mean a flat horizontal line here on out. It also doesn’t mean there will be no harm and no death.

    Instead, endemic means a “steady state”; static; no huge waves; no statewide crisis; no calls for help from physicians on the front line. Importantly, endemic does not mean no suffering. As Dr. Aris Katzourakis— evolutionary virologist— eloquently stated:



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  31. #66
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    “A disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria killed more than 600,000 people in 2020. Ten million fell ill with tuberculosis that same year and 1.5 million died. Endemic certainly does not mean that evolution has somehow tamed a pathogen so that life simply returns to ‘normal’ (…) Nor does it suggest guaranteed stability: there can still be disruptive waves from endemic infections, as seen with the US measles outbreak in 2019.”
    We are not in an endemic state right now with SARS-CoV-2. We are experiencing state-wide and nation-wide swings. The virus transmission is not stable. Our hospitals are overwhelmed. We’re seeing disruptions in almost every part of our society. But when we do reach an endemic state, there will be no declaration. There will be no “game over” front page headliner. It will happen slowly. And we won’t know it happened until it passed. So this leads everyone to the next question…
    What’s next?
    This virus will continue to jump from person-to-person and it will mutate. We may have another wave, but we may not. The presence, timing, and height of that wave are going to be dependent on a few things:
    Omicron infection will help, but we don’t know for how long. By the end of February, Omicron will have touched 36-46% of Americans. This level of immunity, combined with vaccinations, will, no doubt, help build our immunity wall. While infection- or vaccine-acquired immunity isn’t perfect, it does help protect against severe disease by shortening the time of infection and reducing the amount of virus that replicates in the body.
    But Omicron induces a very different disease pathway than previous variants. The timing and height of the next wave is partially dependent on the durability and strength of Omicron-induced immunity. How many people will actually mount strong protection from Omicron? How long will immunity last? Will it be shorter because Omicron was more mild? Or will it be about the same as before (median 16 months with large variability)?
    The virus will mutate, but we don’t know how. Right now, SARS-CoV-2 is mutating every two weeks. And the virus will continue to mutate. Unfortunately, viruses don’t change to become less severe. It’s true that Omicron is less severe than Delta. And, it’s an obviously attractive scenario if this virus continues to mutate to be less and less severe. But it’s not guaranteed. That’s because mutations are random. There is no high-level thinking. The virus’s only goal is to survive and the only thing that keeps the virus surviving is transmission—the ability to continue to infect and jump from person-to-person. If the virus mutates to be more transmissible and it just happens to also make people very ill, that’s the version that will spread because the strategy is working.
    There has to be a global response. If the pandemic has taught us nothing else, it’s that this globe is connected. What happens in Southern Africa (Omicron), the UK (Alpha), Colombia (Mu), United States (Iota), China (Wuhuan variant), impacts us. Our priority needs to be not only national domination of the virus, but also global domination of the virus.
    The best way to do this is to get vaccines to people who need them: The unvaccinated. Yes, focusing on when and how to boost is important, but not nearly as important as getting the unvaccinated vaccinated, which includes ~3 billion people. How do we do this? We share vaccine patents so other countries can manufacture and distribute the innovative biotechnology. This will improve reach. We also need to invest and create different types of vaccines. For example, Dr. Peter Hotez just created a non-profit, pediatric COVID19 vaccine—CORBEVAX— that uses old but proven vaccine technology that can be manufactured and distributed easier across the world.
    (pandem-ic.com)
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    In a nutshell : "This virus will continue to jump from person-to-person and it will mutate. We may have another wave, but we may not."
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  33. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Sure, there will be other waves. There are waves of colds and flus all the time. There is an H3N2 wave on right now. But future waves will be much weaker, because they will never again encounter an immunologically naive population. And people at higher than average risk will have booster shots available.

    Sure, the virus will mutate. But at this point only strains more transmissible than omicron have a chance, and more transmissible almost always means milder. You don't become more transmissible by causing symptoms that put people out of circulation.

    Sure, antivaxxers will keep getting sick and dying, but at lower rates. Eventually a really bad pandemic will come and thin their ranks into irrelevancy. That's how evolution works. Homo sapiens has been in need of some selection for reality-based intelligence for a while. The society we have built is far too complex and dangerous to be peopled by such large numbers of imbeciles. Better something that thins their ranks than something that hits all of us.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    The return to normal begins:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60147766

    Face coverings and Covid passes are no longer legally required in England, after the relaxation of Plan B rules came into effect on Thursday.


    Health Secretary Sajid Javid said the measures could be lifted due to the vaccine rollout's success and a better understanding of Covid treatments.


  35. #70
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bournemouth UK
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    2,141

    Default Re: I'm starting to think it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    The return to normal begins:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60147766
    That's got more to do with politics than public health, Boris trying to get out of his own mess. This virus is not beaten yet. Most people I know are sticking to the rules: masks in indoor public spaces, social distancing etc.

    Nick

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