Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    56 days into my build of a Minahouet kit from Jordan Boats and today glued down the sole. I started a build log on Tumblr but may change to a better platform once my media savvy daughter gets home for Xmas. I'll post some photos in a day or so but thought I'd start this thread whilst waiting for the sole to harden off.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Welcome aboard.

    Please do figure out how to post here, meanwhile a link to your Tumblr would be nice. Minahouet has been on the short list of open boats I'd like to build one day for a few years now, I'm looking forward to following your build.

    ETA: I think I found it: https://www.tumblr.com/blog/view/minabild
    Last edited by stromborg; 12-22-2021 at 12:47 PM.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    IMG20211223084743.jpg

    Just one photo to show current state of build. Epoxy still not hardened off so 'accore' at the transom remains in place. Hard to find what 'accore' was, mentioned in another Minahouet build log but eventually found 'shore', so it is shored down not up. Here's a link to the Tumblr blog -https://minabild.tumblr.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    22,227

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Izzat one of these?

    she was in last years Salish 100

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,430

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    That looks like an Ebihen, def. not a Minahouet.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.


    This is a Minahouet. From a SBM article by Nic Compton a few years back.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,430

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    It is very similar to the Calendar Islands Yawl which why I have hesitated to make it part of my catalog. But I have always love the boat!
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Providence,RI USA
    Posts
    362

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Great to see your work so far, Batlaw! Looks to be a perfect little boat.

    For comparison, Minahouet is a wee bit longer than Ilur, and a little narrower and lighter. This should make for easier rowing. She also carries less sail than Ilur, but with less weight, that seems appropriate, I've never felt that my Ilur is under-canvassed!

    Does she have a flat bottom too, do I remember? That would make taking the beach more of a sure thing.

    Anyway, please keep us posted.

    Mike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Thanks Mike. Yes, she has a flat bottom, see my photo above. Just a short skeg and some rubbing strakes on the sole edges.
    Hywel.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    My darling daughter has 'helped' me on to Instagram as her preferred platform for what I need to use to document the build! So here is the link:-

    https://www.instagram.com/hywel.b/

    I do like though the ability to edit, ie correct my spellings, on this forum but probably won't continue here or the Tumblr one as time is precious. I am full of admiration for all those who document their builds with You Tube vids but I usually take ages editing and then downloading my videos on my other interests, so just the one site for anyone interested. Gemma tells me that I need interested persons to 'follow' me, so join the queue!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Help! Could someone advise on an issue that has arisen. FV's plan for the Minahouet, and no doubt on his other designs, have mark points on the frames to show the bottom edge positions of the garboard and the strakes. Each strake then overlaps the preceding one by approximately 22mm and this line is then marked along the garboard/strakes as the limit of the bevel. This I have done on the garboards so far and have planed in the bevel ready for strake 2. Final adjustment is then done to allow the strake to sit flush on each frame..
    However,, the Minahouet has a very fine bow and the angle between strake 2 and the garboard at the first frame is only 3-4. There is no way to cut a bevel over just 22mm. See my drawing attached.IMG20220203105547.jpg
    To allow strake 2 to fit flush the bevel would either need to extend the full width of the garboard at that point or for a gain to be extended beyond the frame which is 15cms beyond the 30cms gain I have already cut. Other build logs don't seem to show any extended bevel, so is an extended gain the answer? Perhaps it could be cut just on the strake inner so that it then fits on the 22mm bevel?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Batlaw5; 02-03-2022 at 07:26 AM. Reason: Added point.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,430

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    You would just want to let the plank form a gap over the frame and back fill with epoxy. Does that make sense? The gain on Minahouet should only be 6-12" long.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Perfect sense Clinton, but as a clinkervirgin I have been following the Oughtred gospel and thought I had to be flush with all the frames with the garboard/strakes pressed hard onto the bow frame which is 45cms from the stem. In doing so for the garboard I do have a rather odd line to the stem. Ah well, it will at least be below the waterline! I only joined strake 2 together yesterday and am waiting for the epoxy to set but I'll see tomorrow if your suggestion gives a fair line. Yes, FV suggests 30cms/12' gain which is what I've cut.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,430

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    The only way to do it is to fill with epoxy or create a wedge to fit.
    The only other way to do it geometrically is to lengthen the gain a great deal, but that won't look good.
    In my kits I always jog frames and molds to prevent this from happening. You can simply create a wedge to have the same effect.
    Make sense?
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Are we talking about a frame, something that stays in the boat forever or a mold that is only giving shape the hull? Just making sure the terminology we are using is the same.

    For strake 2, the 22mm land you are beveling into the garboard has a rolling bevel determined by the mark on your plank and where the bottom (top once the boat is right side up) kisses the mold. It is not unheard of to plane a flat into the mold to get the plank the lie where it is supposed to go. The gain is only the last 12-15 inches (or whatever works) at the ends of the planks so they finish out flush to the stem and sometimes transom.

    My Eun Mara has a couple of frames that were built into the hull, I had to knock a few flats into them to get the planks to lie fair. Clint has mastered the CAD/CNC process to point where he can build those into his kits, I suspect Vivier designed Minahouet before the tech was developed enough to do that ( I could be wrong, making assumptions from this side of the monitor is always perilous.)
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Yes, it is a structural frame, first one back from the stem.

    Steve, if I understand correctly your comment on the rolling bevel, as I said before, FV's plan and guide for the Minahouet, provides for fixed marks on each frame for the placing of the bottom edge of each strake and he sets the bevel at 22mm on the preceding garboard/strake. Each strake is cut to the correct shape and therefore should line up at all frames between the mark and the 22mm line. I can find no reference to the need for a rolling bevel, as I understand the term. Because of the 3-4 angle of the frame at that point, the strake cannot lie on the frame from the bottom mark to a 22mm bevel line without standing proud of the frame. What Clint suggests is to bridge that gap with epoxy or a filler piece.

    I'm not clear about your comment about planing a flat into the mold as surely this would 'suck' in the strake inside the designed fair line. (I'm trying to post some photos but having problems as everything I type gets deleted so I'll post these comments and try separately.)
    Last edited by Batlaw5; 02-05-2022 at 04:57 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    The sucking in has already happened to a degree with the garboard/sole fit from gluing to the frame and it's almost as if that frame is too small or the one back too big! I can't believe that is correct and in any event the 3-4 slant of the frame between strake 2 and the garboard and the fixed width of the strake at the station determines the lie as set out in my earlier sketch.
    Last edited by Batlaw5; 02-06-2022 at 04:52 AM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Terminology is key here.

    That flat spot you are planing onto the garboard for the next, (broadstrake) plank is called a land. My guess from what you've said is that it should be 22mm wide. The angle (or bevel) of the land is determined by how a flat line gets from the top of the land to the point where the bottom of the next plank touches the indicated spot on the mold. It is going to change as you move down the boat, hence the "rolling bevel" term.

    The molds are lofted out as a nice curve, the hull from a distance looks curved but is in fact a series of facets. Your job as lapstrake boatbuilder is to put the corner of each facet where it belongs along the curve.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.



    This is a pretty good illustration of what I tried to describe in my previous post.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Yes, that's exactly what I do Steve, but as in my sketch and the photo below, a 22mm land does not accommodate the strake lying flat on the frame. The piece of ply is the same width as the strake at frame 7 and sits between the bottom guide mark drilled into the frame and the 22mm line on the garboard. What I think may have happened is that I didn't bevel the sole enough resulting in the garboard not lying flat enough even though it seems to lie flat on the frame. Clint's suggestion is to lay the strake as it is with a fair line and backfill the gap on the frame. Another solution is to plane down the garboard to the correct level. This will thin the 9mm ply but I will be glass clothing the sole/garboard area in any event and more can be added inside.

    IMG20220206091040.jpg

    Her is FV's plan of frame 7 showing strake 2 lying flat on the frame. The angle between 2 and the garboard is about 10 which is more than twice what I have and confirms my suspicions.

    Screen Shot 2022-02-06 at 09.24.38.png
    Last edited by Batlaw5; 02-06-2022 at 06:05 AM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    With the garboard glued in place you'll have to use that as a starting point to correct the rest.

    It looks like you over-beveled the land, fortunately that can be filled in (if messily) with epoxy, I'd do the best you can now and fill it in when the hull is right-side up and gravity is on your side. Clint is right, at this point filling that frame-gap looks the way to go. The problem with going awry with a kit is that you can't adjust to any errors by changing the widths of the planks to suit. Take a look at how the next plank lays on the hull, you might need to make adjustments over a few planks as opposed to trying to get it all in one go.

    These things do have a way of compounding over time, it is worth sitting down in your moaning chair and thinking through the next several steps before committing to anything permanent.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Saco, ME
    Posts
    2,430

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    With the garboard glued in place you'll have to use that as a starting point to correct the rest.

    These things do have a way of compounding over time, it is worth sitting down in your moaning chair and thinking through the next several steps before committing to anything permanent.
    Good advise. The other advise is to simply be sure the plank is fair and to resist sucking it into a low spot just to get contact. The better think is to let the plank gap where it needs to and fill. If that makes the plank fair then it is always the better way.

    I have not cut the Minahouet yet, so I do not have cutting files. I suspect it is an older set of files and they may need some updating - perhaps the geometry of that frame/bulkhead needs some work. Hard to say.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Steve - I think it's more a case that I under-beveled the land on the sole as this has made a shallower angle for the garboard/sole land with the garboard not sitting further down. This photo shows the area with the sole in place.IMG20211223084657.jpg

    It's difficult now to measure the angle accurately but the garboard does seem to lie at about half the angle shown on the plans. With a 8-10 'slope', the 22mm bevel would allow strake 2 to fit accurately.

    What I have done so far is to plane the garboard to make a fair area closer to the angle it should be and once I have both strakes ready to dry fit I'll be able to see how fair a line I can achieve. As Clint says, I don't want to suck in the strake just to have a flush fit on the frame.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batlaw5 View Post

    It's difficult now to measure the angle accurately but the garboard does seem to lie at about half the angle shown on the plans. With a 8-10 'slope', the 22mm bevel would allow strake 2 to fit accurately.
    Remember, the angle shown on the plans is only accurate at that specific station, it will change over the length of the plank. The width of the land (22mm) is the only constant.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Dinas Powys, Wales, UK
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Well, strakes 2 are now in place and a fair lie seem to have been achieved with minimal gaps to the frame, as per photos attached. I planed down the garboard to a level it should have been and as well as the sheathing of the sole/garboard areas as suggested by FV, I shall sheath the area inside as well. Not a lot had to come off to achieve the additional 4 I mentioned earlier. Many thanks to all for your advice and the build continues apace!IMG20220224154209.jpgIMG20220224154409.jpg

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,177

    Default Re: A Vivier Minahouet in Wales.

    Glad you got the planking sorted.

    I built Marianita tight against the garage door too. There is a faint "U" shaped imprint left behind in wood flooring from walking around the hull.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •