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Thread: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

  1. #211
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I finished stripping one side of the boat today. Or rather I finished stripping a panel. Next I will sand it down and cover it with fiberglass. Once I finish the fiberglass, I will clamp it to the side of the frame, draw the outline of the sides, and cut it to fit. When I get this one side dialed in, I will make the final drawings of the side panels.

    I know what you are thinking in these two pictures, "Dang Lee, that's a lot of freaking staple holes!". Yes, yes it is. But you know what? After a quick squirt of water from a spray bottle to swell the grain, and then sanding it and covering it with epoxy and fiberglass, you can't hardly even see them. Many times on my previous boat I have been stopped by curious awestruck passersby in the Walmart parking lot admiring my boat. They ask tons of questions. But never did anybody ask, "hey, what are those tiny super hard to see little bitty dots in the hull?" To me, its worth making sure I have plenty of clamping pressure and tight fit between the strips. You will also notice a curve to the strips. That's not a photographic anomaly. I laid them out to match the slope of the boat so she will have nice graceful lines in her dress.
    20230301_212352.jpg
    20230301_212339.jpg

    By the way, another benefit of make the strip panels on the bench instead of stripping the frame, I don't have to bevel the edges of the strips to match curved surfaces. I just fiberglass one side which leaves it flexible, put that on the inside of the boat, and the panel bends around the curves quite easily. Almost like a stitch and glue project.

    Oh yeah, this is tool number one for this process. definitely saves your hand. I bought a battery operated one, but it aint got enough gravel in its gut to sink the staples. This one works like a charm.
    20230301_212309.jpg

    This is what I did to get the frame out of the way while I work on the sides.
    20230301_212440.jpg

    I will post more once I get the side fiberglassed, clamped to the frame, and cut out. Let me know what y'all think so far!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  2. #212
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Good idea on laying them out to match the sheer line. It always looks weird when the strips run dead level.

    Many times on my previous boat I have been stopped by curious awestruck passersby in the Walmart parking lot admiring my boat
    Don't sell yourself short Lee, I bet you could even leave a Target customer awestruck

  3. #213
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Ok cedar fans, how do ya like me now? This is going to make one gorgeous boat. Even if I do say so myself.

    I finished scraping and sanding the inside of this side panel and laid the fiberglass and got the first coat of epoxy on it. I think I am just going to do one coat of epoxy since it is the inside. That way it won't be so slick if I need to brace me feet on it or something. Funny thing is though, this cedar seemed to be heavier when I flipped it over to sand it. Is western red cedar heavier than eastern cedar? Or did I end up with a bunch of California redwood instead of cedar?

    20230303_185022.jpg

    20230303_185054.jpg
    20230303_212554.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  4. #214
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    You're not wasting any time there, Lee! I suspect the weight is just the size of the panel compared to the last one. Squared functions and all.
    -Dave

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    You're not wasting any time there, Lee! I suspect the weight is just the size of the panel compared to the last one. Squared functions and all.
    I ain't got time to waste Dave!! I am trying to get this thing done so I can get some helm time in it before winter.

    Oh yea, y'all remember when I said I wasn't going to put a second coat of epoxy on the inside of the hull? Well.... I lied. It just felt unfinished, so I had to put a thin coat on it. And if I need some non-skid, I will just go to the store and by some of those non-skid stair strips. Besides, It will be the part of the boat that I see the most when I am sailing.

    Here it is with the second coat and cut to size:

    20230304_214459.jpg

    So no plan, no matter how well thought out, ever survives first contact with the enemy. And I had a mistake at the stern. No big deal, it was easy to slide a short piece of strip in there:
    20230304_125043.jpg

    Here it is clamped to my frame when I marked the perimeter to cut. She is started to look like a real boat now!!
    20230304_120122.jpg20230304_120115.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Whew. I'm tired. I have the starboard side stripped together and fiberglassed with one coat of epoxy. Tomorrow I will do the second coat, and hopefully on Saturday I will attach both sides to the frame.

    Here the starboard side is halfway stripped. I was more deliberate with my staples this time. I kept them in more of a row at every 12" interval. I should have done this with the portside, but I was trying to not put as many staples in. However, I ended up needing just about as many staples anyway, so when I did the starboard side I just put them in rows every 12".

    20230306_215345.jpg

    I bought some new epoxy tools. A battery operated stirrer, and an aluminum roller. I kept getting bubble sections in the low areas where one strip was thinner than the other, so I bought the roller to work out the bubbles. Did the job real nicely. A lot better than using my fingers to smooth them out.
    20230309_224038.jpg

    And last, but not least, here is the starboard side with a layer of fiberglass and one coat of epoxy. Shiny aint she? And thats just the first coat. I did a lot better on sanding and scraping this time.
    20230309_224047.jpg

    If all goes well, she should look like a real boat by the end of the day Saturday. Once I get the sides on, I am going to use my cardboard to make a pattern for the bottom. Same method I used for the sides. I see a potential pitfall on the horizon. I tried bending the portside around the 3 inch radius in the bilges. No joy. It was going to break if I forced it. So, I am thinking about making the bottom out of 1/4" strips, but tape the frame with packing tape, build the bottom on the boat, then take it off and fiberglass the inside, the re-install like you do a kayak clamshell style. I might build the very bottom on the flat bench, lay it up on the frame, and fill in the bilges with strips. I think that might go faster. Cutting and fitting every single strip around a radius on a set of forms takes a month of Sundays. Those of you that have built a kayak or a canoe know what I am talking about.

    Stay tuned!
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I got the second coat on the starboard side tonight. I forgot to take a picture of a weird phenomenon to ask you guys about. One of the strips in the very middle of the panel totally soaked up the epoxy. So much so that it leeched it out of the fiberglass. There was a nice white stripe in the center of the panel. I lifted the panel up thinking there must be a puddle of epoxy on the underside, but nope. Not a bit of epoxy drained through. I thought maybe I didn't get the edges glued together good enough with the wood glue, but there was not any epoxy on the underside at all. I have no idea why that one strip sucked up the epoxy like a sponge. Weird.

    I just noticed when I logged in tonight that I started this thread a year and a half ago. Crazy. Seems like it was just yesterday. I also noticed there has not been very many comments since I actually started building this boat. Either everybody is in awe of my brilliance in design and build (highly unlikely), or they think I am utterly ignorant and are too nice to correct me. I still consider myself an amateur builder, and this is a design I came up with on my own taking inspiration from the drifter and slingshot, so if I am doing something wrong, please sound off loud and let me know. I am thick skinned, and listening to criticism and advice from this forum is what has helped me to have the courage to even think of starting such a project with my first boat, and this one also. So I certainly won't be offended.

    If I finish getting the sides on tomorrow as planned, I will post some pictures. I think having the sides on will really give us an idea of what the boat is really going to look like.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  8. #218
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Oh yeah, one more thing, I am contemplating building the mast and boom in the teardrop fashion instead of birdsmouth like I orignally planned. The mast is going to end up being nearly 28 feet long. Anybody got some pros and cons for birdsmouth vs teardrop, both made from wood?
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    YET ANOTHER HOLLOW VS SOLID MAST DEBATE

    Ok, so... I have been rolling around doing a solid mast as opposed to a hollow birdsmouth or rectangular/teardrop shape. I did a lot of searching here on the forum for different posts, and I found alot of discussion, good info but some of it was pretty dated. I still can't make up my mind. I am wanting your guys' advice on which has been best for you, in your situations, considering current norms and new technologies. I don't want a metal or carbon fiber mast.

    For me, I think weight is the biggest factor due to a spinal fusion surgery last September. My current CLC Sailrig boat has a 20 foot mast spirally wrapped with 6inch wide bias reinforcing fiberglass tape and I would guess the weight to be between 25 and 30 pounds. It gets pretty athletic trying to step that mast. I usually step the mast while the rig is on the trailer to avoid causing a traffic jam at the boat ramp. In order to get it in my kayak I have to lift it up a almost chest high in vertical position to get it in the partner.

    PRO for BM: I calculated the weight savings for a 28 foot mast made from sitka spruce. According to the internet, sitka weighs 29.2 pounds per cubic foot. My 3" diameter mast volume worked out to be .93 cubic feet for a BM, and 1.37 cubic feet for a solid, assuming no taper. I haven't made up my mind on whether or not to taper either. With those numbers, a BM mast is 27 pounds, and a solid mast is 40 pounds. Adding maybe 5 pounds for fiberglass and epoxy brings her up to 32 and 45. So a BM with no fiberglass is 32% lighter than a solid. Even if I make a really well-made solid mast that won't need fiberglass, a BM is still 8 pounds(20%) lighter than a solid.

    CON for BM: As everybody knows, building those BM masts is an exercise in stress psycho-management. Getting the staves to behave while gluing them up will make you lose your religion. The last time I made one I used plywood nests mounted on my strong-back I made for my kayak, and it was still a real pain to get the scantlings to sit in their BM joints until you put the last one in.

    CON for BM: Due to the hollow core, some say you can have failures due to condensation inside the mast causing rot. When I made mine I sealed the inside with epoxy as I was building it to protect against this. But it does add an extra step to an already intense process.

    PRO for SOLID: Super simple to make. Scarf and Laminate some clear 2 x 4's together to get the length, width, height I need, and then use an electric hand planer to make it an octagon, then hexadecagon, and so on until it is round.

    CON for SOLID: Yup, its 30% heavier on average for the 28 foot mast.

    CON for SOLID: Laminating and scarfing 2 x 4's for 28 feet is going to waist some material, and it is going to be pretty difficult for me to keep it straight with my current shop conditions and tools (anybody know where I can get a super cheap 28 foot aluminum I-beam?). Due to the way the scantlings are made in a BM, as long as you make the 45deg joint (mouth) pretty well, it kind of straightens itself as you glue it up.

    I am still leaning towards the BM. But, I have also considered the solid mast made out of cedar, since I am planning on reinforcing with fiberglass anyway.
    Anybody want to convince me one way or the other?

    EDIT: Oh yeah, I only got one side of the gunwales on yesterday. Hopefully have the other one on soon!
    Last edited by Lee.007; 03-12-2023 at 12:30 PM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I just noticed when I logged in tonight that I started this thread a year and a half ago. Crazy. Seems like it was just yesterday. I also noticed there has not been very many comments since I actually started building this boat. Either everybody is in awe of my brilliance in design and build (highly unlikely), or they think I am utterly ignorant and are too nice to correct me
    I'm new to this forum so my advice probably isn't very helpful, but you're now on page 7 of the thread in the design/plans section, you might get more traction if you create a new thread solely about the building in the building/repairs section. You've certainly made some interesting decisions design/build wise, but most of them are personal preference rather than its going to catastrophically fail and leave you in a watery grave sort of decisions. If you were way off track there a would be a line of people waiting to tell you how you're wrong.

    I am thinking about making the bottom out of 1/4" strips, but tape the frame with packing tape, build the bottom on the boat, then take it off and fiberglass the inside, the re-install like you do a kayak clamshell style. I might build the very bottom on the flat bench, lay it up on the frame, and fill in the bilges with strips. I think that might go faster. Cutting and fitting every single strip around a radius on a set of forms takes a month of Sundays.
    Thats probably the best way to do it. It might end up looking a little weird but that will be hard to see even on the trailer.

    One of the strips in the very middle of the panel totally soaked up the epoxy. So much so that it leeched it out of the fiberglass. There was a nice white stripe in the center of the panel. I lifted the panel up thinking there must be a puddle of epoxy on the underside, but nope. Not a bit of epoxy drained through. I thought maybe I didn't get the edges glued together good enough with the wood glue, but there was not any epoxy on the underside at all. I have no idea why that one strip sucked up the epoxy like a sponge
    It sounds like you have an air pocket. Any chance you could upload a photo? I know you want to finish bright but you might have to grind it out and layup some more cloth over it.

    YET ANOTHER HOLLOW VS SOLID MAST DEBATE
    Or we can complicate thing further and you can consider a stressformed plywood wingmast.

    https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/m...s.62361/page-5

    Here is a little information. If you like the idea I can dig up some more links. I might even have the Gougeon brothers plans somewhere.

  11. #221
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I remember years ago seeing a solid wooden mast that was cut down the middle and hollowed out. This could make the mast lighter, with only one glue joint to worry about.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    I remember years ago seeing a solid wooden mast that was cut down the middle and hollowed out. This could make the mast lighter, with only one glue joint to worry about.
    I actually just watched a video on youtube a few days ago where a guy did just that. Only his main intent of hollowing it out was to create channels for the mainsail and jib halyards. Seemed a lot easier and faster than a birdsmouth configuration. But, I gotta say, my birdsmouth I made two years ago has taken some abuse. It is the mast I learned to sail on. It has taken 20 knot winds with 60 square feet of sail. Actually, it took a 30 knot gust with 100 square feet cause I had the jib up, and that is when I capsized. It survived the capsize too with no issues. But dang if a birdsmouth aint a lot a freaking work.

    What if I made it solid and made it out of cedar?? Would anybody slap me in the head for making it out of cedar instead of sitka spruce? I would get almost 30% less weight in a cedar mast. Anybody against cedar?


    Quote Originally Posted by mattglynn View Post
    Or we can complicate thing further and you can consider a stressformed plywood wingmast.
    Oh yeah Matt, I found a book on wings masts. And you are right, they seem too complicated, and I was planning on using simple robands with parrell beads to attached the sail, cause a sail track will cost me $250 or more. I could use a bolt rope and a pvc channel, but again, I am looking for simple and strong.

    EDIT: One more thing, I have the two sides on and I am working on the bottom now. I will post pics tomorrow.
    Last edited by Lee.007; 03-15-2023 at 10:03 PM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  13. #223
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    As promised, here are the pics. I have one side sanded. Starboard side is still rough. I'm starting to strip the bottom now. Hopefully I'll be done stripping it this weekend. The 3" radius is being a bear, even though I beveled the edges of the strips on both sides. I will have a lot of crack filling to do, but thats ok.

    20230316_211022.jpg
    20230316_211007.jpg
    20230316_211058.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
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  14. #224
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Coming along nicely, Lee.
    -Dave

  15. #225
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Thanks Dave!

    So this past weekend I finished closing in the hull. Then I separated the bottom to sand and scrape it to prepare it for fiberglass and epoxy:

    20230319_221026.jpg

    20230319_221115.jpg

    20230320_192825.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  16. #226
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I'm starting to think I have an addiction. I can't stop working on this boat. Even when my arms and neck are sore as a boil from sanding, I see visions of what this boat is going to be and I have to make it happen as fast as possible.
    Last night I put the first coat of epoxy on the inside of the bottom with the fiberglass. I want to have the inside of the vaka finished by this weekend, then sand and fiberglass the outside:

    Edit: By the way, those rollers I bought from Amazon really do the trick to keep the fiberglass from bubbling. Even with several of the strips being un even with each other, I used the roller to push the fiberglass down into the cracks. Worked like a charm.

    20230322_200758.jpg
    Last edited by Lee.007; 03-23-2023 at 07:35 AM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
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  17. #227
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    And here it is with the excess fiberglass trimmed away and second coat of epoxy.
    20230323_193251.jpg
    20230323_193308.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  18. #228
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Sides and bottom all attached. Here are a few pics of today's work. I cut the bulkheads down to my designed size. She is really looking like a real Boat now!
    20230325_150959.jpg

    20230325_103612.jpg

    20230325_103542.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  19. #229
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Dang Lee you’re really moving along! It might just be the photo, but your deck stringers up near the bow don‘t look quite fair

  20. #230
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Yeah Matt, it's the picture. The stringers are fair, but the sides stick out a little where the stem meets the bow deck, I think that area is called the breast hook. I left the stringers a little too far right there and I didn't want to do anything because I already had my epoxy and wood flour mixed up to put the sides on. That stuff is expensive and I didn't want to waste it. I am thinking about putting a miniature figure head right there, maybe a mermaid or something, to cover it up some.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  21. #231
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Here is a better picture Matt. This is after 2 hours of sanding and fairing today with my belt sander and my electric hand planer. It should look much fairer now. But there still is that booger right where the stem meets the bottom.

    20230326_195936.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
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  22. #232
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Holy smokes. I had no idea I was creating that much surface area when I designed this boat. When I built my kayak, I fiberglassed the whole exterior in what seemed like half a day. Tonight I spent 4 hours hard at it and still only got the two side covered with fiberglass and one coat of epoxy. I also reinforced the seems between the bottom and the sides, the transom seems, and the bow stem with a 2 inch strip of woven biax. The stem actually has 3 layers of fiberglass. Two Layers of 4oz. cause I folded the side fiberglass around the stem at the bow, and one 2 inch strip of the biax under them. Should be practically bullet proof. I will have to do the bottom tomorrow. I should be finished with the hull exterior this weekend. I'll post some pics. I gotta work tomorrow and its 1am, so off to bed now for me.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  23. #233
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    And here is the hull fully covered in fiberglass with one coat of epoxy. Tomorrow I plan to do the fill coat, and then start working on finishing out the interior with some reinforcing braces, mast step and partner, maybe start some decking. Sorry about having to split the pics, I couldn't get the whole thing in one picture.

    20230331_235543.jpg

    20230331_235530.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
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  24. #234
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    The stem actually has 3 layers of fiberglass. Two Layers of 4oz. cause I folded the side fiberglass around the stem at the bow, and one 2 inch strip of the biax under them.
    So the small strip is underneath the larger pieces from the side that you wrapped around? Did you do this on your other boat? I'm just wondering if you've had any issues with air pockets forming in that hot Georgia sun.


    PXL_20210704_141004382 (2).jpg

    Its funny how similar they look at this stage

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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattglynn View Post
    I'm just wondering if you've had any issues with air pockets forming in that hot Georgia sun.
    Shouldn't happen if one's careful about doing what it takes to get a solid bond between layers / applications of 'glass in epoxy. Exposure to direct sunshine that leads to surface temps approaching 140°F / 60°C will lead to epoxy beginning to soften up, why dark finishes over epoxy, or graphite-thickened epoxy, shouldn't be exposed to direct sunshine for extended lengths of time.

    After all it's heat that's often recommended when it's found necessary to remove hardened epoxy for some reason, if there's a choice between direct mechanical means to remove the bulk of it over simply grinding / sanding it off.

    Sanding too, if done aggressively with power tools, may generate enough heat to soften or melt epoxy, why sandpaper may oftentimes become clogged well before it's worn out.

    Bubbles that form after exposure to direct sun may be caused by trapped moisture expanding as water vapor between layers.
    "Because we are not divine, we must jettison the many burdens we cannot bear."

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  26. #236
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Quote Originally Posted by mattglynn View Post
    So the small strip is underneath the larger pieces from the side that you wrapped around? Did you do this on your other boat? I'm just wondering if you've had any issues with air pockets forming in that hot Georgia sun.
    No, I didn't get any bubbles on the stem. But I did on the stern where the transom meets the bottom. I think it was mostly because of the severe angle between the transom and the bottom. I sanded it all off and re-did it. Just put the fiberglass back on the transom today. And yes, the small strip is underneath the larger pieces. I use a chip brush and just keep working the glass over the bends until the epoxy starts to gel. Once it is gelling, the glass stays down and I don't get any bubbles.


    PXL_20210704_141004382 (2).jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by mattglynn View Post
    Its funny how similar they look at this stage
    Whoa!! Did you hack my computer and steal my plans?? You are right they do look a lot alike! Your hull is much more slender though.

    I am on leave this week so I am getting a lot done. I removed the two temporary bulkheads, #4 and #6, and did a lot of sanding inside to clean up some epoxy squeeze out from the stringers. I reinforced the bulkheads with one 1/2" X 2" thwart, gluing it to the top stringers and the bulkheads. That really made her stiffen right up. She was a little flexible, with the sides wanting to lean out, but the reinforcing really straightened her right up. My wife said if she is going to sit in there with me on the water, she wants it to be "pretty". So I had to laminate a 1/8" strip of cedar to all the pine thwarts that were visible in the cockpit area. For number 5, I just replaced the entire thwart with a cedar board that was pretty clear and sturdy. So its... "pretty" now.

    I also ran a bead of thickened epoxy on either side of the keelson for the entire length. I was in a rush when I epoxied the bottom to the frame, and didn't have time to mix more thickened epoxy before the epoxy on the sides set up. It was actually getting warm in my hands when I got the last bit of the sides epoxied and I had to get the bottom on quick. So I just raised the keelson up a bit with some 1/2" wedge shims and used a cake decorator's squeeze bag stolen from the wife's stash in the kitchen to squirt some epoxy underneath the keelson, and then laid some dumbbells on it to give it some clamping pressure while it cures.

    One thing I am a little worried about though. I was blocking up the bottom so I could get inside and do some sanding without putting too much pressure on any one section of the bottom before I had the keelson glued, and I noticed the bow has an inch more rocker rise than I designed. I am sure that is just variation in materials and workmanship over the 20 foot length. But should I worry about it? There's nothing I can do now to fix it if it is an issue.

    I will post some pictures tomorrow. It was raining today and I couldn't get the boat outside to get some good pictures, and it was really too cramped and dark in the garage.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  27. #237
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Quote Originally Posted by sp_clark View Post
    Bubbles that form after exposure to direct sun may be caused by trapped moisture expanding as water vapor between layers.
    That's exactly what happened to me a few years ago when I built my kayak. The deck didn't want to marry up nicely with the hull when I put the two clamshell halves back together. "No big deal", says I, "thats what they make heat guns for." WRONG! So I took a heat gun to the bow of the deck to try to get it to bend back in shape to match the hull, and tiny bubbles started forming in the weave of the fiberglass. Its still there today. Hasn't caused any issues, but it looks dumb. Only to someone who knows about building boats though.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  28. #238
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Today all I got done was making some seat mounts and laminating them with cedar. I had some old 5/8" plywood laying around that was perfect for seat mounts, so I sawed it up. Only thing is it looked pretty rough. So i spent most of the day sawing up 1/8" thick 2" wide cedar planks to cover the ugliness. I picked up some nice seats at Academy Sports this morning. They were a little over 50 bucks each, but it is worth it cause they are much better than sitting on a piece of closed cell foam or a board for that matter. This boat aint gonna be about roughing it. Its gonna be about comfort as much as possible. Oh yeah, I put a second coat of epoxy on the transom, its looking rather stately now. I did a bad job of removing the staples on this, so there are some blemishes, but I figured I could put a piece of trim on there to hide it. Check out the pics:

    EDIT: I forgot to mention I have TONS of leg room. WAaaaay better than my kayak sailrig!!

    Here is the transom:

    20230404_200038.jpg

    Thwarts/bulkhead frames and keelson curing:

    20230403_215857.jpg

    Covering the seat mount ugliness:

    20230404_192103.jpg

    Seat mounts dry fitting:

    20230404_195756.jpg

    Yup, I think this boat will do...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  29. #239
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    I have been doing work on the seat mounts and the rudder. The rudder case is all done, except for sanding down the fiberglass. I think I am going to paint all of the wood that is not cedar a blue or gray color to match the seats. Check out the rudder mount and housing:
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  30. #240
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  31. #241
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Ok guys, I gotta say I am gettin' pretty excited about how the boat is turning out so far. I was doing some measuring tonight. I put my strong back on the tip of the stem, and leveled it up. Then I measured back to the center of where I need my mast to be. I ain't blowing smoke here, but I nailed my dimensions within 1/16 of an inch. My mast position with the jib is going to be right next to bulkhead #3, with the center of effort just a little be forward of the center of lateral plane. Perfect! The bulkhead will help provide support to the partner, and the step. I have a 1/2" piece of marine grade plywood I am going to use for the partner and the step. I still plan on covering them with epoxy, and maybe even a layer of 4oz glass.

    I also assembled my center aka housings (cross beams). I still need to cover them with epoxy and glass, but I am pleasantly surprised to find that I won't have to shim them up any to let the akas clear the deck. I was looking at the swing radius in my AutoCAD drawings, and since I was looking at the position of the aka end when folded from the side, it looked like it was going to crash against the deck, so I was planning on having to shim it up 3". Turns out, I don't need to shim at all. It was my eyes playing tricks on me in AutoCAD. I also made some 1/8" thick aluminum plates and bent them to match the angle between the sides and the aka housings. I plan on gluing the aka housings to the decks with epoxy, but I still want that extra warm fuzzy feeling that the akas ain't gonna rip up from the boat. I am seriously thinking about putting some water stays on the forward aka housings to help keep the tension on the shrouds going up to the top of the mast. I think I can get away with just attaching the shrouds to the aft side of the aka housings with a chain plate, and that will give me almost a 90deg swing for the sail boom. I never have swung my current boat's sail out to 90 deg even when going dead down wind because I go faster drawing it in a bit, but I like options. The only draw back is that is with the sloop rig. If I run just the main sail, I need to move to my forward mast position, which is 22 inches forward, and I won't get as much boom swing. But wait, without the jib, I don't really need shrouds... well, maybe. I will have to run the numbers again. I have decided to make the mast a rectangle / oval shape that is 2.5 x 4 inches. That is almost double what the formula's said I need, so I should be well within limits. If you want to see how I learned to do these calculations, go here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...Mast-Diameters . Everybody was very helpful, especially Tad. Check out the pictures:

    Here are the aluminum brackets I am making for the aka housings. I also needed some spacers to shim the rudder gudgeons out a bit cause they were crashing against the transom mount when pivoting. I sawed everything up on my table saw with a metal cutting blade. I got an eight foot long 2" wide 1/8" thick piece from Lowes and cut 4 pieces 8 inches long for the brackets, then bent them in the center with a vise and my hands (not bad for a redneck machine shop, eh?). I will drill holes in them and mount them with 1/4-20 stainless bolts (sorry bout the sideways pic):

    20230421_182008.jpg

    20230421_182032.jpg

    Here are the aka housings. They are not anchored yet, I still need to epoxy and glass them:

    20230426_215711.jpg

    20230426_215715.jpg

    And here you can see the deck doubling plywood, partner location, and step base plate. I drew a rectangle on the plywood just past the bulkhead. If you look just to the left of my measuring tape you can see it. That is where the mast partner will be. I am going to make another piece six inches wide, basically a mirror of the step base plate you can see, and anchor it under the deck between the bulkheads. That will give me freedom to make more partner holes and play with the mast positions until I get her helm balance dialed in. I am also thinking about slotting the foot of the mast, drill a hole lateral through it for a holding pin, then make a rail for it to sit on. The rail would have holes drilled through it, so I could move the mast fore and aft to adjust. I dunno, that may be more complicated that I need:

    20230426_215724.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  32. #242
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Float test on Wednesday this week!! Finally got the boat wet. I used my sons as crash test dummies, I dont do cold water. I am worried about it sitting too high, but I think once I put the amas, amas, me, passengers, mast, sail, rigging, boom, leeboard, rudder, and all the camping gear I might want, she should sit just right. I also installed the mast partners and step, and a breasthook. There was a very slow leak at the bottom of the bow. I couldn't find any holes or cracks, so I filled it full of epoxy and wood flour with an end pour.
    Feels like I am moving slow now cause of all the little details that have to be added to the hull. I still need to make the rudder blade, leeboard blade and case, attach the aka mounts and akas, and put the decking on, then the Vaka should be pretty much done.

    20230501_180630.jpg

    20230502_215500.jpg

    20230502_215522.jpg

    20230503_180025.jpg

    20230503_175949.jpg
    Last edited by Lee.007; 05-05-2023 at 10:49 AM.
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  33. #243
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    So I have the fore deck covered and some steering pedals. I got sent out of town for a mission and didn't get to do much the last two weeks. Hope to get some time to speed this up in the next few weeks.

    Here is the fore deck with the planking finished. I used several different species of cedar and some pine to make a cool multicolored design. I almost dont want to cut it to put hatches and lockers in it. The angle of the picture creates a foreshortening illusion. This section is actually 8 feet long. The two square holes are for the mast positions. The rear is with the Jib, the fore is without.
    20230517_181045.jpg


    Steering pedals and cabling system. I ran some amstel through some pex tubing and cut out some of the bulkhead to avoid chafing. The pulleys ease the chafing when the amsteel comes out of the pex. Works pretty good.
    20230522_193316.jpg
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

  34. #244
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Looking good, Lee. If you really want an unobtrusive hatch, magnets are the way to go. But be warned, there's some fussy work involved.

    Here's the one time I did it. You carefully cut out a piece of the deck, create and glue a backing rim in the boat, embedded with rare-earth magnets, and do the same on the underside of the cutout, which becomes the hatch. Think carefully about the spacing so that the hatch will lie flush. The magnets have to be bonded and glassed to keep them in place and prevent any water from getting at them. But when done, the only thing that really shows is the pull or handle you put on there.

    Great Auk 4.jpg
    Last edited by Woxbox; 05-25-2023 at 09:20 PM.
    -Dave

  35. #245
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    Default Re: Lee wants a new trimaran design...

    Dave,

    That is a freaking amazing finish on that kayak!

    So, a few questions:

    1. Did you stain that wood? If you did, what kind of stain did you use to ensure the epoxy would stick to it? Or do you epoxy, and then stain over the epoxy? I am going to paint the SPF frame inside my hull with an acrylic paint cause I just don't like the look of the yellowish pine once it is epoxied. My daughter is an Interior Architectural Designer and she says that I need a deep teal green or teal blue color to compliment the cedar red-orange (some artsy fartsy thing about color wheels and such is how she arrived at that answer). According to the internet, you are supposed to use acrylic paint over epoxy. Would you agree or disagree with that?

    2. How did you make the lip on the underside? Just cut out some 1/4" plywood or something with the outside perimeter an inch or so larger than the hole in the kayak, with the inside perimeter an inch or so smaller that the hole in the kayak, and then just glue and glass it in with the magnets?

    3. It doesn't look like you have any water / weather sealing around the lip. Do you think I will need any seals given that the deck on my boat "should" be so high above the water line? I don't plan to go beyond protected lakes or inter-coastal bays with it.

    4. What kind of glue did you use to bond the magnets to the wood? Just drill a hole, set the magnet in it, epoxy it, then fiberglass over that?

    Thanks for the excellent Idea!! I did not want to ruin the clean look of the deck and was scratching my head about hinges and such that are very low profile, but nothing seemed to fit what I wanted it to look like.

    -Lee
    “If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    “You’re never beaten until you admit it.”
    - General George Smith Patton

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