Introduction: new in New England, getting going with building and sailing.

[lookfar]

Hey all,

Lovely forum you have here. The dogs and I just moved from Seattle to Rhode Island and I'm excited to get going with sailing and building over here. I've got full-on wooden boat fever, which has come and gone since I was a kid. Volunteering at the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle scratched the itch a bit, but it's hard to build a boat in a third floor apartment. Now I've got a house under contract with a two car detached "shipyard" so, fingers crossed, it might finally happen. Glued lapstrake has caught my eye and I think I'm going to start with Oughtred's Skerrieskiff, though Joel White's Nutshell is appealing too. No trailer needed, that one can go on top of my car. Oughtred's MacGregor and Ness Yawl are the real attractions, but since I'm very much a beginner I figured I'd start with something easy that I won't mind messing up or looking a bit ugly. I'm also keeping an eye on classes at the Wooden Boat School and down at Mystic.

I've done some rowing (scull and sweep) and the idea of camp cruising in my own wooden boat is real appealing. I've also long since learned that if you want to use something, don't build it yourself unless you really know what you're doing. So, to get out on the water I'm going to poke some of the local yacht clubs about folks looking for crew. I'll get set up with Providence's Community Boating Center and Sail Newport. I'm not really an experienced sailor - got my ASA 101, went out a few times on an FJ, a few times on J boats, and I've crewed for friends. Had a blast helping my buddy move his Morgan 38 from Bellingham to Seattle after Christmas last year. If anyone is looking for crew in the RI/MA/CT area, or wants to take a fledgling builder under their wing, give me a holler!

Happy Thanksgiving,

Tom

[Mike.Higgins.94301]

Good luck to you. Currently I am writing this reply from Mystic but I’m just here for the holidays. I live in the SF Bay Area and cannot provide you with any real support. However, I would suggest that you might start with a simpler hull than any of the elegant designs you listed. Building a simple flat iron skiff would provide plenty of boat building experience and is more likely to be a successful first build.

F1F578BE-71A3-4A08-841A-8414B0CE6176.jpg

[lookfar]

Hey Mike, I appreciate the suggestion. What makes the flat-iron simple, and these others more complicated?

The Skerrieskiff is the real play at an easy boat. Oughtred designed it to be built by a bunch of kids in a two week summer school, so I figured I could probably do it. Only having two strakes seems like it would make things easy. My only reservation there is that I want to sail more than row and the Skerrieskiff is more row than sail.

[Mike.Higgins.94301]

The Skeerie Skiffs are good examples of the handsome hulls Oughtred has designed. I also expect it would be a fun sailboat. However, a simple flatiron would be a much easier hull to build. If built as stitch-and-glue hull, I believe the two side panels, bottom, and transom that comprise a flatiron skiff could be cutout and assembled in a few weeks by a first-time builder. That boat would not be as elegant as Oughtred’s designs. However, that build would require you to learn a lot about boat building. You also would have something that would get you out on the water while you built your next boat. If you chose the proper design, the first project could be a nice looking boat.

[johngsandusky]

Hi Tom, welcome aboard!
I'm not quite an easy drive from you, or I would invite you to see the fleet (9 boats 8'-39') Of course it's off season in the NE. I agree that flatiron skiffs are easy to build. I once built one in just a few days. But I think with patience and study, you can build any design. I'm sure everyone will suggest his favorite, I'll refrain. I will suggest that you try to see and try one in person before building. Good luck, keep us posted.

[lookfar]

Thanks for the thoughts, John and Mike. I picked up Gardner's Building Classic Small Craft and Rossel's Building Small Boats today so I'll give them a look and see what I find.

[nedL]

Welcome! I'm just over the boarder in eastern CT. (about 35 minutes away). I don't build from scratch, but do a lot of rebuilding. New Jersey built traditional cedar on oak lapstrake is sort of my thing. I have five of them here now along with a bunch of other stuff. Glad to have you stop by if you ever want to see how traditional lapstrake boats are put together.

[lookfar]

nedL (Ned?) - I would love that. Glued ply lap seems like a great technique while I learn more boatbuilding and general carpentry skills, but it would be great to try trad lapstrake someday. I'm happy to lend a hand too if you've got work fit for a greenhorn. I'll send you a PM.

I've been poking around plans, I think I'm actually going to build David Beede's Summer Breeze. Super simple, it'll give me a chance to flush out my setup and give me a little more carpentry experience. It's a flatiron, I think, though maybe simpler than John intended when he originally suggested the type! Nonetheless, fits what I want and from reading the accounts of other people it's a surprisingly capable little boat.

Tom

[WI-Tom]

Careful with those cheap simple "temporary" boats you build as a time-filler before taking on the "real" boat--they can end up being a lot less temporary than intended!

Here's mine about halfway through a 20-day sailing trip in Lake Huron's North Channel:

DSCF0903.jpg

Tom

[Mike.Higgins.94301]

nedL (Ned?) - I would love that. Glued ply lap seems like a great technique while I learn more boatbuilding and general carpentry skills, but it would be great to try trad lapstrake someday. I'm happy to lend a hand too if you've got work fit for a greenhorn. I'll send you a PM.

I've been poking around plans, I think I'm actually going to build David Beede's Summer Breeze. Super simple, it'll give me a chance to flush out my setup and give me a little more carpentry experience. It's a flatiron, I think, though maybe simpler than John intended when he originally suggested the type! Nonetheless, fits what I want and from reading the accounts of other people it's a surprisingly capable little boat.

Tom

To me, Beede's Summer Breeze looks like a perfect first boat.

[WI-Tom]

There are also very simple boats that might be better suited to camp cruising, especially sleeping aboard, and flotation. Plans for the boat in post #9 (though with a lateen rig not suitable for cruising) are available HERE for $45. I switched that out for a 68 sq ft balance lugsail from Jim Michalak's Mixer design.

Many of Jim Michalak's designs would also suit, particularly the Mayfly series (12', 14' and 16' versions), plans $35 for the 14' version.

If your interests run toward camp cruising, a boat with decks and flotation might suit better than Summer Breeze. It wouldn't be much harder to build, either. I built mine in less than a month of weekend work.

Tom

[lookfar]

Thanks for your thoughts Tom! I saw your thread on your adventure with the Jagular - quite inspirational. I keep hearing Jim Michalak's name so given your advice I decided to order his book from Duckworks. I was already considering turning that breasthook on Summer Breeze into a deck (foredeck?) and sealing it off with a bulkhead of some sort. Alternatively, dry bags and some foam along the hull. Not sure yet. The Goat Island Skiff seems to be another popular one in this category, though it might be too big for one-man camp cruising. I may also have to pick up another Payson book; I've got Go Build Your Own Boat already. Another note - my brother is moving to northern WI this upcoming summer. I'll keep a weathered eye out for Jagular or your Alaska when I go visit!

-Tom

(things are always better when the Tom density increases)

[Breakaway]

I own and built a Summerbreeze. Great little boat. But I use it for a quick row or sail in protected tidal creek across the street. Go set a crab trap; the kids go mess with it for a bit, etc. It is small and while it rows, it does not row great. I would not want to row it for more than maybe 30 minues. That frame amdiships makes lying down in the boat uncomfortable, so I would think you would want to plan to sleep ashore were you to camp cruise.

Good luck!

Kevin

[lookfar]

Hmm. That's not encouraging, but then again it's a first boat. At this stage it's more important to start and finish than to find the perfect design, methinks. Thanks Kevin.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[John Gearing]

Howdy lookfar and welcome to New England. Now that you're in Rhode Island, you're in a special corner of the region. Rhode Island clam chowder has no cream and no tomato. "Rhode Island System Hotdogs" are fun to watch being prepared (if they still do it with Covid around). The cook lines the buns up his arm and then fills them with the sausages, etc all the way up. And you may well find that Rhode Islanders are very content in their 1000 sq miles and can hardly think of leaving. That said.....I heartily recommend you consider joining these two organizations: the Traditional Small Craft Association (TSCA, national), and the John Gardner Chapter of the TSCA. I belong to both myself. The JGTSCA has its own boatshop at the Avery Point campus of the University of Connecticut, a little east of Mystic. We have outings, work parties, and sometimes get involved with rehabbing old small craft that have been donated. And it doesn't matter much if you don't have your own boat yet, because the chapter has a few dories of its own for members to use. I won't bore you with history, but suffice it to say the TSCA was born over 50 years ago out of the concern that owners and builders and fans of traditional small craft had regarding proposed USCG regs that would have put the ki-bosh on the whole scene. You can find both the chapter and the national organization on your favorite search engine. They are great folks all around who welcome all who share an interest in small boats.

Oh, and while you are whiling away the winter months, get over to Battleship Cove in Fall River, MA, the world's largest collection of WW2 naval vessels. The battleship Massachusetts is there, along with a sub, a destroyer, and a Soviet missile corvette! Also a couple of PT boats. You have to walk around the Massachusetts to get a real understanding of the incredibly complex machine that it is. As I recall, a main turret crew was 500 men.

As for simple boats, when you get into BCSC don't overlook the early chapter on simple boats. The punts Gardner describes are about the simplest things you can build, and out of lumberyard wood, nails, screws, and paint. You can have a lot of fun in one nosing around a harbor or on a small river. Need oars? Mystic sells Pete Culler's sheet of oar plans, cheap. Or you can buy his book, "Boats, Oars, and Rowing" and learn more tricks of oarmaking plus a whole lot about Culler's small craft designs. I think Pat Atkins continues to sell the plans drawn by William and John Atkin, one of which is a fairly simple, cat-rigged, flat-bottomed skiff of 17 feet that could carry six to eight adults in comfort. Searh for Atkin & Co and you ought to turn them up. And if you ever just need to disappear down a nautical rabbit hole, just search out "The Mother of All Nautical Links" to find page after page after page of designs, designers, tools, gear, etc etc and on and on. Last time I looked I think there were over 30 pages of single-spaced links!

Get some RI clams and make yourself some clam chowder this cold, snowy weekend! Cheers!

[rbgarr]

Contact The Herreshoff Museum in Bristol to see if they have boat building, sailing and restoration opportunities you can participate in or steer you to. https://herreshoff.org/

[Michael_Owen]

Hi Lookfar,

I'm in Providence and have built two glued-lap boats. My first was an Oughtred Whilly Boat, which was a great rower and good, but tender sailboat. Only for strakes per side and with his plans and book not too difficult, even for a first-timer.

I then spent a few years ! building a Vivier-designed Ilur. You're welcome to come take a look sometime.

The Herreshoff Museum is very cool, and the street it's on has a few working boatshops.

It sounds like you have plenty of experience to me!

Mike

[lookfar]

Well, buying a house and moving in after moving across the country took a lot out of me. Still resting and getting into the groove in the new place, but I finished a little household carpentry project and that got me thinking about boat building again. Also got signed up for some classes this summer with the WoodenBoat School!

Howdy lookfar and welcome to New England. Now that you're in Rhode Island, you're in a special corner of the region. Rhode Island clam chowder has no cream and no tomato. "Rhode Island System Hotdogs" are fun to watch being prepared (if they still do it with Covid around). The cook lines the buns up his arm and then fills them with the sausages, etc all the way up. And you may well find that Rhode Islanders are very content in their 1000 sq miles and can hardly think of leaving. That said.....I heartily recommend you consider joining these two organizations: the Traditional Small Craft Association (TSCA, national), and the John Gardner Chapter of the TSCA. I belong to both myself. The JGTSCA has its own boatshop at the Avery Point campus of the University of Connecticut, a little east of Mystic. We have outings, work parties, and sometimes get involved with rehabbing old small craft that have been donated. And it doesn't matter much if you don't have your own boat yet, because the chapter has a few dories of its own for members to use. I won't bore you with history, but suffice it to say the TSCA was born over 50 years ago out of the concern that owners and builders and fans of traditional small craft had regarding proposed USCG regs that would have put the ki-bosh on the whole scene. You can find both the chapter and the national organization on your favorite search engine. They are great folks all around who welcome all who share an interest in small boats.

Oh, and while you are whiling away the winter months, get over to Battleship Cove in Fall River, MA, the world's largest collection of WW2 naval vessels. The battleship Massachusetts is there, along with a sub, a destroyer, and a Soviet missile corvette! Also a couple of PT boats. You have to walk around the Massachusetts to get a real understanding of the incredibly complex machine that it is. As I recall, a main turret crew was 500 men.

As for simple boats, when you get into BCSC don't overlook the early chapter on simple boats. The punts Gardner describes are about the simplest things you can build, and out of lumberyard wood, nails, screws, and paint. You can have a lot of fun in one nosing around a harbor or on a small river. Need oars? Mystic sells Pete Culler's sheet of oar plans, cheap. Or you can buy his book, "Boats, Oars, and Rowing" and learn more tricks of oarmaking plus a whole lot about Culler's small craft designs. I think Pat Atkins continues to sell the plans drawn by William and John Atkin, one of which is a fairly simple, cat-rigged, flat-bottomed skiff of 17 feet that could carry six to eight adults in comfort. Searh for Atkin & Co and you ought to turn them up. And if you ever just need to disappear down a nautical rabbit hole, just search out "The Mother of All Nautical Links" to find page after page after page of designs, designers, tools, gear, etc etc and on and on. Last time I looked I think there were over 30 pages of single-spaced links!

Get some RI clams and make yourself some clam chowder this cold, snowy weekend! Cheers!

Hah, I've had a Rhode Island System Hotdog... it was interesting. Not bad, not good, just... there. I don't think I was drunk enough to really appreciate it. I grew a seafood allergy (all of it) when I was a kid, so sadly I won't get to join into the spirited debates on clam chowder out here. Corn chowder is pretty good though. Good tips all around, I've got the TSCA and Battleship Cove on my todo list and the rest squirreled away for nightly reading.

Contact The Herreshoff Museum in Bristol to see if they have boat building, sailing and restoration opportunities you can participate in or steer you to. https://herreshoff.org/

Ooooh, I didn't know about this one. Also added to my list. I looooved Bristol when I first visited Rhode Island. It's a little too far away from Providence and its amenities otherwise I would have settled out there.

Hi Lookfar,

I'm in Providence and have built two glued-lap boats. My first was an Oughtred Whilly Boat, which was a great rower and good, but tender sailboat. Only for strakes per side and with his plans and book not too difficult, even for a first-timer.

I then spent a few years ! building a Vivier-designed Ilur. You're welcome to come take a look sometime.

The Herreshoff Museum is very cool, and the street it's on has a few working boatshops.

It sounds like you have plenty of experience to me!

Mike

I would love this - Oughtred is the reason I want to build boats. The Opus, an Oughtred Wee Seal, was on loan to the Center for Wooden Boats in Seattle and I found myself enchanted quite enchanted. One thing led to another and here we are. I'd also love to see your Ilur. I ran across Roger Barnes, who has an Ilur, and watched a number of his videos. I have no idea if I'll like camp cruising but damn do I want to try it. I'll shoot you a PM with contact info.

[lookfar]

Oh, also. I'm going to build a Summer Breeze or one of Jim Michalak's boats unless something else real compelling pops up. One of my challenges will be my car - I drive a little hatchback. I'd like to have something bigger, but I'm attempting to resist that urge until I car prices go back down. In the meantime, starting with a boat I can throw on a small car's roof rack solves a problem for me.

[MalabarJr]

Greetings Tom and welcome to Vo Diluhn. You might check out the Narragansett Terrace Yacht Club in Bullocks cove. There is a decent little fleet of Rhodes 19's there and they have Thursday night races.

[dbp1]

Oh, also. I'm going to build a Summer Breeze or one of Jim Michalak's boats unless something else real compelling pops up. One of my challenges will be my car - I drive a little hatchback. I'd like to have something bigger, but I'm attempting to resist that urge until I car prices go back down. In the meantime, starting with a boat I can throw on a small car's roof rack solves a problem for me.

If you want it to go on the roof, weight should be a _real_ focus. Different types of plywood vary widely, so take the designers weight estimates as possibilities, not guarantees (you can also cut a little square off a sheet and weigh it on a kitchen scale and multiply to get a sense of how much a sheet weighs: compare that against known weights for various types of plywood to see if you will likely end up close to the weight the designer claimed!).

Also, not sure if you're in their local delivery range (as otherwise, probably not worth it), but Boulter Plywood up in Medford, MA is a big marine plywood seller, and their prices have always been quite a bit lower than what I hear people say from other parts of the country (or world). Maybe not something you want to spend money on in this first experiment, but certainly worth it for any subsequent builds!

Also: eventually you'll want a trailer, which you could start looking around for now. They're in short supply right now, so perhaps worth keeping an eye out for, and that'd solve the hatchback problem (all the boats you've mentioned, with the exception of _maybe_ Ilur, are so small and light that any car can pull them: e.g., my ~350lb boat, on a 130lb aluminum trailer, happily travels behind a 15 year old prius).

[lookfar]

Greetings Tom and welcome to Vo Diluhn. You might check out the Narragansett Terrace Yacht Club in Bullocks cove. There is a decent little fleet of Rhodes 19's there and they have Thursday night races.

Alright, you're going to have to explain this one. Google gives me nothing for Vo Diluhn...

(Thanks for the tips!)

If you want it to go on the roof, weight should be a _real_ focus. Different types of plywood vary widely, so take the designers weight estimates as possibilities, not guarantees (you can also cut a little square off a sheet and weigh it on a kitchen scale and multiply to get a sense of how much a sheet weighs: compare that against known weights for various types of plywood to see if you will likely end up close to the weight the designer claimed!).

Also, not sure if you're in their local delivery range (as otherwise, probably not worth it), but Boulter Plywood up in Medford, MA is a big marine plywood seller, and their prices have always been quite a bit lower than what I hear people say from other parts of the country (or world). Maybe not something you want to spend money on in this first experiment, but certainly worth it for any subsequent builds!

Also: eventually you'll want a trailer, which you could start looking around for now. They're in short supply right now, so perhaps worth keeping an eye out for, and that'd solve the hatchback problem (all the boats you've mentioned, with the exception of _maybe_ Ilur, are so small and light that any car can pull them: e.g., my ~350lb boat, on a 130lb aluminum trailer, happily travels behind a 15 year old prius).

I'll take a look at Boulter. I've been thinking about trailer vs roof rack. Those little folding Harbor Freight trailerse are interesting, though I wouldn't want to dip it in the water. What kind of trailer do you have? Do you have a link to it, by chance?

[Michael_Owen]

I tow my Ilur behind a 2014 Corolla. I would like to have all wheel drive, esp. on some slimy boat ramps, but so far, I've had no problems. That said, I have not traveled very far with it.
I'll be towing it to Mystic this summer for the WB show, "I built it myself" display. That will be the furthest I've trailered it so far.

I did drive to Boulter with my boat trailer to buy 10 sheets of 3/8" okume when it was in Somerville. It was nerve-wracking, but worked out.

Good luck!

Mike

Oh, and Vo Diluhn is how we natives pronounce the name of our state. Well, some of us.

[dbp1]

I'll take a look at Boulter. I've been thinking about trailer vs roof rack. Those little folding Harbor Freight trailerse are interesting, though I wouldn't want to dip it in the water. What kind of trailer do you have? Do you have a link to it, by chance?

If you are only ever going to use <100lb boats, roof rack will work! But if you are fantasizing about building a Ness Yawl, or anything bigger than a canoe or an 8-10ft sailboat (with some exceptions), it's going to either get old or be impossible to put on the roof.

The trailer I have is from Trailex -- the 500 lb capacity one (SUT-500). It's expensive, but on the other hand, I'm not worried about it falling apart on me: they seem well constructed, are _intended_ for lightweight boats (they have a 250 or 220lb capacity one, but my boat is bigger than that), and are very adjustable (they are shipped flat packed and you assemble them -- which takes a while! I think it took me ~4hrs? But it mean you can move things all around). The lead time when I got it was a couple months; it's probably more now (last time I was on their website it said to call them). It's light enough that even with the boat, I'm not too worried pulling it around in the (somewhat underpowered) car.

Folding seems like a nice idea, and probably would be, at first, but as soon as you build a boat that is big enough to go on the trailer, it's going to live on the trailer so it becomes somewhat pointless!

[David Satter]

Tom, I'm a Wooden Boat school alumni and A mystic seaport member. Love those places. years ago when I built my first boat . I wanted something good looking and simple to build. Keep it simple so you see progress every day so you won't loose interest. Though it sound like you probably wont. I built Rich Kolin's Heidi. Super easy 3 planks to a side and great to row. It's the kind of boat when floating in the water it's just beautiful. There's a great thread up here that someone posted about building one recently. Fair winds. Dave Scan0020.jpg

[neil.henderson]

As well as buying the books written by Greg Rossel and Iain Oughtred I would also recommend subscribing to Off Center Harbor and looking at their videos on using epoxy and glued clinker boatbuilding, especially those made by Geoff Kerr.
Glued clinker isn't that hard really as long as you follow the basic principles and take your time, I'm on my 3rd glued clinker & I can tell you they get better with practice. I am fascinated by Iain's designs......................though those by Francois Vivier and Paul Gartside are also very good.

Regards Neil

[lookfar]

Hey that sounds great. Geoff Kerr also teaches at WoodenBoat, I think.

Yeah I'm excited to do some glued lap but uh... I want to learn how to use my tools first before I give it a whirl. I want to have reasonable confidence I'll produce something decent before I put the effort in!

[lookfar]

I bought Michael Storer's Oz Racer RV plans and I'm going to give that whirl. I'm not terribly concerned about the performance loss, I like the increased buoyancy, and the more open seating is probably better for taking friends family out.

I like the look of the Summer Breeze better, but as a new woodworker and boatbuilder the 100 page soup to nuts "plans" (boatbuilding manual) are real compelling. They're the kind of lookers that only a mother and a proud craftsman loves, but that'll suit me just fine. Besides, his Goat Island Skiff is next on the list.

[dbp1]

I bought Michael Storer's Oz Racer RV plans and I'm going to give that whirl. I'm not terribly concerned about the performance loss, I like the increased buoyancy, and the more open seating is probably better for taking friends family out.

I like the look of the Summer Breeze better, but as a new woodworker and boatbuilder the 100 page soup to nuts "plans" (boatbuilding manual) are real compelling. They're the kind of lookers that only a mother and a proud craftsman loves, but that'll suit me just fine. Besides, his Goat Island Skiff is next on the list.

Be aware that, when _sailing_, one passenger, cramped, is about all you should expect (the 12ft version, the Oz Goose, is a whole different story, and really better in all respects except weight!). The OzRacer RV was the first boat I built, and it was a great learning experience. But, I built in when I didn't have access to marine ply, or anything under 6mm, so it ended up way too heavy (I was using 29lb per sheet 1/4" fir ply, rather than a mix of 18lb 6mm and 12lb 4mm), ~120lbs total, which was a royal pain for such a short stubby boat! Out of 4mm/6mm occume, it probably would have been a lot more fun! And, with the daggerboard down, it rowed surprisingly well.

Feel free to post questions here. The manual in general was quite good, but there were a few confusing bits (probably, most importantly, the order of assembly for the rudder case wasn't right: it said to glue it together and then to drill holes from the inside! Maybe that's been fixed since I was building it, but if not, it is worth reading ahead to make sure you understand the whole process before gluing anything together).

Also -- in case you are interested, and since you are <1hr drive from me: I cut up the hull of that boat (re-used the parts to make frames for a skin on frame canoe), but I still have the spars if you wanted them (free). At this point, they are just taking up space (I would have cut them up already if the idea of getting rid of perfectly good things didn't both me!). I have the RSS sail too, though would probably want at least a little money for it, so no talking about that here (I've been meaning to take it off the spars and offer it on the Oz Goose facebook group for a very long time now...). The foils are still lying around, and free too, but I made them a few mm narrower than the design specifies (when I glued the daggerboard case together, I squished it a tiny bit, so had to make the foils narrower to fit), so you may not want them... Though again, up to you! (send me a direct message if interested in any of this!).

[Breakaway]

Cartopping.

I have never weighed my Summerbreeze. I built her to plan, though, using Okoume ply, which is lighter than most, and I only glassed the chines. It'd be freaking heavy to car top. ( I say this as a reasonably fit 59 year old @ 6'1, 200 lbs) If it was a longer boat, one could lift up one end and then slide it on the rack. As is, I would not want to car top it at all, and certainly not on a regular basis.

Kevin

[mike9199]

Hi guys! Newbie here, thanks for accepting me.
Great discussion.

[ahp]

Tom,

I am here in East Providence. I moved up about six months ago and I am looking for other woodenboat builders and fans. I am going to send you my cell phone number so look for it in you Private Messages.

ahp

[ShayneM]

Hello everyone! Nice to be here with you.