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Thread: Shop Vacuums

  1. #1
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    Default Shop Vacuums

    I own a Fein, purchased years ago, which has performed and held up beautifully. But a friend who is now retired, and is beefing up his shop setup in anticipation of building several boats, asked me to help shop for a new one for him.

    After a bit of research, I recommended the current Fein. Got good reviews, and quieter than the rest (5 decibels, which is noticeable). Plus, the only one with all 4 wheels swiveling (which I much prefer - YMMV).

    Then, as part of my Fine Woodworking subscription, the annual 'Tools & Shops' issue arrived. With shop-vac reviews.

    They ranked the Festool best. At almost double the price of the Fein... it should be better. But I don't imagine it's twice as good. They gave 'Best Value' to the Fein, the Bosch, and the Makita. All brands I've had excellent luck with in general. They were less impressed with the Metabo, the Milwaukee, and the DeWalt.
    Last edited by David G; 11-11-2021 at 09:40 PM.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Canal Boat Yard, where I haul Skookum Maru, rents out Fein sanders and shop vacs to the DIY crowd (myself included). They work great and if they hold up to that sort of abuse then I would expect them to be near indestructible.
    - Chris

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I like the cyclonic separator things in the shop vac size as made by oneida and others, they save a lot of filter changes. I don't think a shop vac will ever serve more than one tool at a time, and definitely won't handle a planer or SawStop. My sawstop has a 4" duct and no shop vac will get enough velocity thru there to keep the cabinet clear. Speaking of air velocity, I used to own a Fein, but I was hiring a guy at some point and while I was distracted he got creative and put a small nozzle and hose on it because he had this fantasy about more "velocity," the reduced air flow burned the thing up, and the company didn't sell just the motor as a part, so landfill...

    Ken

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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    the reduced air flow burned the thing up,
    I've had a Fein for a dozen years or more and it's been faultless. One of the selling points is that the motor cools with a separate fan -- it's doesn't rely on the exhaust flow. The small nozzle would have loaded the motor, but it shouldn't have failed. I think these vacuums have been used for low-tech composite vacuum bag layups, which is to say no air flow for hours.
    -Dave

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Feins are sorta an industry standard for vacuum used for dust collection. For cleaning up demo trash, or vacuuming out table saws I like the big rigid ones.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by kbowen View Post
    I like the cyclonic separator things in the shop vac size as made by oneida and others, they save a lot of filter changes. I don't think a shop vac will ever serve more than one tool at a time, and definitely won't handle a planer or SawStop. My sawstop has a 4" duct and no shop vac will get enough velocity thru there to keep the cabinet clear. Speaking of air velocity, I used to own a Fein, but I was hiring a guy at some point and while I was distracted he got creative and put a small nozzle and hose on it because he had this fantasy about more "velocity," the reduced air flow burned the thing up, and the company didn't sell just the motor as a part, so landfill...

    Ken
    Well... it's certainly true that one should use the correct vacuum setup for the job.

    Here's a video that speaks to that issue --

    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    The Fein vac is primarily a dust extraction unit, which it does well but don't ask anything more of it. The suction is anemic and the long, skinny hose will choke on a shaving.

    For general shop cleanup I used the hunnert buck Rigid vac, with a short 3 inch diameter hose.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    What Jim said. Rigid ten gallon shop vac with a dust separator more than keeps up with my table saw. As a stand alone vac for general cleaning, it cant be beat. Specially at the price. Clean the filter once a day.

    If I was installing millwork in a hospital operating room I might consider the Festool.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    The Fein vac is primarily a dust extraction unit, which it does well but don't ask anything more of it. The suction is anemic and the long, skinny hose will choke on a shaving.

    For general shop cleanup I used the hunnert buck Rigid vac, with a short 3 inch diameter hose.
    A bit overstated. I've used my Fein to collect to my router table with no clogging issues, for instance.

    But it's true that different types of tools are intended for different uses. The types of suction and the sizes of hoses are both address somewhat in the cited video.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I've owned a Fein for going on 20 years and a Festool for about ten years. Both work well. I like the Festool a bit better as a dust sucker to my sanders and other hand held shop tools only because it has the variable speed/suck control. My Fein is too old for such pleasures. The standard issue hose from Festool is too stiff in my opinion. I replaced it with a Fein hose. The Fein vac is easier to move around. Not only will it swivel quickly but with the top handle it is easy to pick up and move. The Festool vac can't roll over its own cord which I think is a terrible design flaw. Maybe newer machines are different....

    Anybody using one of these vacs for heavy duty cleaning is nuts. They don't come with a 2" hose and so one shouldn't expect them to pick up chunky debris. I've never had one of them clog when using a router in the shop.

    Both brands are quiet... not an attribute that Rigid can claim.

    If I had to make the decision now, based on what I know, I'd buy another Fein if it had a variable speed motor/sucker control.

    Jeff

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    So I just got the correct brushes for my Shop-Vac, a QSP650. Like I had said before I pulled two of them out of a dumpster 10 years ago, because somebody had used them for cleaning up sheet rock dust and just blew it all through the filter. The thing moves a lot of air with the 2.5" hose but its suction is crazy. When I first got them cleaned up and working it seemed like a silly Tool Time modification joke, ( like V8 powered lawnmower) anything it sucked up just went through the filter. I have used it for ten years with a cut up T shirt, wrapped with a cut up dress shirt and hold it all in place with the foam filter. Works but when I turn it on a cloud of dust comes out of it. Not really good with today's concerns about fine dust in the lungs. I am going to try to put a exhaust port in so I can just run a hose out the door when I use it for dust collection.
    I don't know much about their new models except they are expensive, but like most things probably not as good as the original.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I have three Feins. My first was the older style with the long gray hose. I needed a second for the dock box at the boat, so I shelled out the bucks for the newer Turbo II. Don’t like it nearly as well as the older one. A few days after buying that, I saw an older one on a curb with a sign that said ”Free, needs new motor”. I grabbed it, didn’t need a new motor, just needed a wire reattached to the switch. I now use the two older ones, in the shop as my main dust extractor, and one at the boat. I use the new Turbo II to clean up cat litter in the basement.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Before I built my shop and installed an Oneida dust collector I was using my double car garage. I ran a hose from my 30 year old Fein and clogged the filter real quick. Adding an Oneida Dust Deputy with its cyclone was a cheap upgrade which made a huge difference, I mostly just emptied the 5 gallon pail with the cyclone on top of it.Having an intense dislike for screaming Shop Vacs I bought a Nilfisk Alto Aero unit. Stainless tank, very very quiet, a switched outlet for auto starting a tool, HEPA filter, has the usual floor pickup and nozzle attachments, and a Festool adapter to hook up to Festool and Fein tools. I use it all over the shop and take it down to the dock. With the bag installed there is zero exhaust dust so not making a mess inside the boat. This vac did a reasonable job with planer shavings at a light pass in my garage shop.
    They are widely available in a lot of variations, can’t recommend them highly enough.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    I have three Feins. My first was the older style with the long gray hose. I needed a second for the dock box at the boat, so I shelled out the bucks for the newer Turbo II. Don’t like it nearly as well as the older one. A few days after buying that, I saw an older one on a curb with a sign that said ”Free, needs new motor”. I grabbed it, didn’t need a new motor, just needed a wire reattached to the switch. I now use the two older ones, in the shop as my main dust extractor, and one at the boat. I use the new Turbo II to clean up cat litter in the basement.
    Ok, well, leaving aside your luck in finding a free Fein shop vac sitting by the road (!) can you spill on why you don't like the new Turbo II? And by "older style" do you mean the round version? That's what I have used at Canal and liked it a lot. I have no experience with the newer style.
    - Chris

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    The new Turbo hose is thick and cumbersome, and doesn’t seem to connect to anything. And the auto shutoff delay runs WAY too long after the tool is shut down. That may be an idiosyncrasy of my particular one but it’s really annoying. This is the one I like, and the hose is longer, lighter and much easier to handle.

    CC5B3106-D6D2-418D-9EDC-E2741CE1BD4E.jpeg

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    The new Turbo hose is thick and cumbersome, and doesn’t seem to connect to anything. And the auto shutoff delay runs WAY too long after the tool is shut down. That may be an idiosyncrasy of my particular one but it’s really annoying. This is the one I like, and the hose is longer, lighter and much easier to handle.

    CC5B3106-D6D2-418D-9EDC-E2741CE1BD4E.jpeg
    Yes, that's the one I have used as well. Hm. Well maybe newer is not always better.
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Question for other Fein Turbo II owners:
    When using with a tool plugged into the auto start switch, how long does your vac run after you switch the tool off? I know this is a feature to remove residual dust from hose, but on my two older Feins, they run maybe six or eight seconds after the tool is switched off. On my newer Turbo II, the vac runs 30 seconds or so after tool is switched off. This seems like way too long and I wonder if all do this or if mine is defective. I can find no info on this and no way to change it.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Question for other Fein Turbo II owners:
    When using with a tool plugged into the auto start switch, how long does your vac run after you switch the tool off? I know this is a feature to remove residual dust from hose, but on my two older Feins, they run maybe six or eight seconds after the tool is switched off. On my newer Turbo II, the vac runs 30 seconds or so after tool is switched off. This seems like way too long and I wonder if all do this or if mine is defective. I can find no info on this and no way to change it.

    I had the earlier version of the Fein that had the short overrun time. It eventually burned out and was replaced with the newer iteration. One thing I liked about the old one was that you could use paper filter bag inside, which kept the pleated filter clean. The paper bags were disposable, so emptying the vac was much cleaner than with the present machine where you have to empty loose dust and then tap the filter to dislodge the cake.

    I've set up a belt sander so the hose can be attached where the dust bag connects. You might think it would be a simple thing for a vacuum to suck the dust that was formerly shot into the dust bag by centrifugal force, with the centrifugal force still in operation, but no, there's always a lot of dust on the workpiece. So, here's where the long runtime comes in handy, I can disconnect the hose and there's just enough time to vacuum up the scattered dust before the motor shuts off. If not, and this happens a lot, I can bump the trigger of the sander to get me another thirty seconds.

    The reason the Fein is so quiet is because it's not moving much air, which is the same reason it leaves a pile of dust under the sander.



    Jim

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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I don’t seem to have a problem with much leftover dust on the workpiece with my older Fein. I have it connected to a Dust Deputy mini cyclone which works great. I even use it with my DeWalt thickness planer which has its own blower and creates a lot of heavy sawdust. But the Fein with cyclone easily keeps up with it. The long overrun time of the newer Turbo II drove me nuts. It would still be running while I was on to the next task.

    An anecdote; I left my older model Fein sitting on a bench on the boat when I took a wake that knocked it to the sole, shattering the plastic top. It now has a shiny glass cloth and epoxy dome. Older Feins rule, newer Feins suck.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    My Fein is a couple weeks years old and isn’t so quiet. It definitely pulls a lot of air enough that it will pull sawdust/shave nags through the dust cyclone if I don’t open up the pressure relief slide in the hose. It also stays on what seems like a long time after shutting off the tool. So I just timed it - 15 seconds. I guess it just seems like a long time.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    What is this pressure relief slide of which you speak?

    Ron, how do you hook up a Fein vac to a dust deputy cyclone? What am I missing?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    What is this pressure relief slide of which you speak?

    Ron, how do you hook up a Fein vac to a dust deputy cyclone? What am I missing?
    It takes some duct tape where diameters don’t match, but basically this.
    Note that if you use a plastic 5 gallon bucket, you need to nest two of them to keep it from collapsing due to suction.
    45FAC869-3F01-46B2-9361-FD1ACBDEBEAA.jpeg

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Whoo-boy! When I contributed my endorsement of Fein vacs back in post 10 I had no idea that the company has worked so diligently to screw up a good product. My old vac is great. It has good suction, the hose is long, durable, and flexible, and the machine can be fitted with a hepa filter along with disposable bags. What's not to like? If it had a variable speed motor to temper the suction while sanding, it would be perfect. But now, from what others here are saying, they've gone and "improved" it. More likely the company needed to make it less expensive to manufacturer and covered those changes up with some marketing. Sigh......

    Looks like the Fein will still roll around better than a Festool. That's something.

    Jeff

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Careful Jeff. I may be the only one who doesn’t like the new ones, and that might just be my own idiosyncrasies.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    It is at the tool end of the hose. It’s a small orange plastic sliding hatch so to speak, maybe 3/8” x 3/4” right in the rigid part of the hose end. It allows you some modicum of control but only to lessen the vacuum.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I’ve got a Nilfisk Aero HEPA vac. It has the auto on for use with power tools. I always use the fine dust bags in it. They protect the HEPA filter and make it so much easier to empty. Pretty quiet, it’s been my job site vac for about 5 years with no trouble.
    https://www.sylvane.com/nilfisk-aero...217&quantity=1

    I also have a 6hp Shopvac connected to a cyclone in my shop. The shopvac and the 1 hp dust collector are underneath the stairs to the shop behind a partial wall. The cyclone is on the outside of the wall to make it easy to empty. Just the two hoses coming through the wall one 2-1/2” the other 4”. A pair of switches are mounted on the wall to turn them on and off.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Seems like no one has anything nice to say about the newer Feins. But a question... Most of the complaints seem to be related to using the Fein vac for general shop dust collection use. But wouldn't a small dedicated dust collector be better for that purpose anyway? I have a small 500cfm Delta dust collector that I bought from a retiring shipwright. It's supposed to be a portable unit but I mounted it to the wall in my little basement shop. With the right collection of hoses and attachments I have used it for dust collection from the table saw and planer (the only stationary tools I have that are set up for dust collection now) and with a hand vac attachment I can use it for general shop cleanup as well.

    I don't know if it really moves 500cfm in the real world, but I assume that it moves a lot more air than the ~150cfm Fein. The Delta model that I have is no longer sold but this one from Grizzly is very similar and available for a little over $300 on Amazon or the tool distributor of your choice:

    https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G0710.../dp/B006SJICAW



    It's true that the dust collector doesn't have the auto on/off option of the Fein and similar vacuums but that could be solved with an aftermarket switch if I cared about that. I haven't felt the need though. And it's not convenient if you need to move around a large shop and you don't want to run an overhead duct. But those issues aside it seem like a better all around setup for shop use? I was thinking of getting the Fein strictly for boatyard sander dust collection. Am I missing something? Other than just the cost of buying two pieces of equipment instead of one that is.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I'd like to pitch in to disagree about the new Fein vaccums. A shop I work in recently bought a brand new one and it works great, easily holds up to the festool And older Fein models.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I own a Fein, purchased years ago, which has performed and held up beautifully. But a friend who is now retired, and is beefing up his shop setup in anticipation of building several boats, asked me to help shop for a new one for him.

    After a bit of research, I recommended the current Fein. Got good reviews, and quieter than the rest (5 decibels, which is noticeable). Plus, the only one with all 4 wheels swiveling (which I much prefer - YMMV).

    Then, as part of my Fine Woodworking subscription, the annual 'Tools & Shops' issue arrived. With shop-vac reviews.

    They ranked the Festool best. At almost double the price of the Fein... it should be better. But I don't imagine it's twice as good. They gave 'Best Value' to the Fein, the Bosch, and the Makita. All brands I've had excellent luck with in general. They were less impressed with the Metabo, the Milwaukee, and the DeWalt.
    Get the best, the pain in the wallet will be forgotten quite quickly, poor quality will annoy forever.

    On power tool brands, as someone who has recently retired from years of fixing tools and machinery to keep bread on the table, I have had examples of pretty much every brand in pieces on my bench. I rate Festool and Fein at the top, Makita is good workmanlike equipment as is HiKoki, ( Used to be Hitachi) but Metabo, Milwaukee and DeWalt dont rate highly for me, they're very much built to a price and it shows.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelirrojo View Post
    I'd like to pitch in to disagree about the new Fein vaccums. A shop I work in recently bought a brand new one and it works great, easily holds up to the festool And older Fein models.
    I was hoping somebody would. I think my complaints are due to some old habits of mine. I find the new hose too heavy and cumbersome and it won’t fit to the attachments I already have on all my tools. I think the new Feins are still quality products.

    No one has mentioned Mirka?

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I should qualify my remarks about the Fein. It does what I it's made for, which is to attach to a random orbit sander. It also works well with the Festool Domino. Just don't expect much more from it. For general clean-up chores, forget it, it clogs easily and takes forever, as would anything using a fifteen foot inch and a half hose.

    From looking at the pictures here it seems that the one I have now is not the latest version anyway.

    Jim

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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I guess maybe because my shop is small and I do pretty small projects, but I use my old Fein with a 15’ hose for everything. I connect it to whatever tool I’m using, including tablesaw, bandsaw, chopsaw, track saw, router table, jointer, and yes, even my DeWalt thickness planer, which throws a lot of large chip/dust. I also use it for general cleanup. I can’t remember the last time it clogged. It’s made my shop livable. But I’m not planking boats in my shop.

    I should add that I’ve plumbed 1-3/4” pvc snouts to most of these tools to which I connect the hose.

    3B49C6B5-47D2-4452-B6CC-684EDEF37B0A.jpg

    179A06BC-D859-4E2C-8E17-AC00452F1504.jpg
    Last edited by ron ll; 11-14-2021 at 10:17 AM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I’m on my second Fein, a TurboII with the square base and the disposable paper bags. I’m sure I destroyed the first one with fiberglass dust. Having the extra hose from the original is handy. The bags are nice when dealing with things like wood ash and mouse poo and they keep most of the fiberglass away from the motor. Hope I don’t have to buy another with different size hose but that can usually be remedied with some PVC pipe fittings.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I had two Fein Turbo II vacs purchased about 8 years ago. Both have given excellent service until now. A month ago one started a shrill screaming when turned on. Thinking it might be the carbon brushes or a bearing I went on the internet to see how to access the motor. Fein has schematic pictures of the unit which offer no clue as to how to take the unit apart. I could not find any do-it-yourself videos on this. I tried to figure out how the head unit was assembled but the motor seems to be buried under many plastic parts. I would have thought an easier access to the brushes and motor would have been provided by Fein. Now my second Turbo IIis getting nosier I have ordered a Festool vac this time. All my hoses and accessories will work with the Festool.
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Shop Vacuums

    I can't speak to any potential issues with "new" ones because the Turbo II I bought in 2004 is still running well, and pulls dust whether I'm using it as a shop vac, connected to my sanders, or connected to my 10 inch Inca band saw. I wouldn't connect it to any power tools larger than that, because they make these things called "dust collectors" that are meant to be connected to table saws, planers, jointers, and things of that ilk. I also don't use my chisels as screwdrivers, my screwdrivers as pry bars, or my wrenches as hammers. Your mileage may vary.
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