Fitting Out for Smallish Boat Cruising

[dsimonson]

Well done, Bruce, congrats on a successful cruise with your Mate! Looking forward to catching your presentation in Port Townsend...

Cheers,
Dale

[Bruce Bateau]

Well done, Bruce, congrats on a successful cruise with your Mate! Looking forward to catching your presentation in Port Townsend...

Cheers,
Dale

Thanks Dale. Looking forward to hearing about the big boat tales in your photo stream.

And good to have more boats named Luna out there!

-Bruce

[Bruce Bateau]

I found myself with a few minutes and thought I'd step back in time a bit.

Recall that one of the early challenges with the boat was stepping the mast. It was hollow and nicely made, but it had to go through the roof of the cabin and down to the step.

Mike was kind enough to post pictures of his crane. Good inspiration.

I tried to make my own crane out of wood, but couldn't quite get it.

My pal (savior) Tim, was able to build what he calls sheer legs. (Don't google this term at work as you will end up with a lot of pictures of women's middle parts and legs!) His solution was elegant and highly functional. The two wooden legs are hinged like calipers, plug into little holes in the deck.



Note that there is a 3/4" line that is clipped to the bow and the stern that holds the legs from moving fore or aft.



Then there is a simple set of blocks that are used to lift the mast. The clincher is that you have to find the right balance point for the mast to be able to lift out of the step or to drop it into the step (see red line). In either direction, if the sheer legs are anchored properly, it is goes really smoothly and is a beautiful use of physics. On one occasion I didn't have the fore and aft lines taut enough and I almost had an unpleasant situation!

When not in use, I strap the sheer legs to the trailer. The whole thing is stable enough to use while Luna is afloat.

[Andrew Donald]

One advantage of the through-cabin mast is that it’ll stay put while you deal with stays etc. I’ll read through the rest of this thread for more tips I can steal. Happy cruising Bruce.

[Mike.Higgins.94301]

I found myself with a few minutes and thought I'd step back in time a bit.

Recall that one of the early challenges with the boat was stepping the mast. It was hollow and nicely made, but it had to go through the roof of the cabin and down to the step.

Mike was kind enough to post pictures of his crane. Good inspiration.

I tried to make my own crane out of wood, but couldn't quite get it.

My pal (savior) Tim, was able to build what he calls sheer legs. (Don't google this term at work as you will end up with a lot of pictures of women's middle parts and legs!) His solution was elegant and highly functional. The two wooden legs are hinged like calipers, plug into little holes in the deck.



Note that there is a 3/4" line that is clipped to the bow and the stern that holds the legs from moving fore or aft.



Then there is a simple set of blocks that are used to lift the mast. The clincher is that you have to find the right balance point for the mast to be able to lift out of the step or to drop it into the step (see red line). In either direction, if the sheer legs are anchored properly, it is goes really smoothly and is a beautiful use of physics. On one occasion I didn't have the fore and aft lines taut enough and I almost had an unpleasant situation!

When not in use, I strap the sheer legs to the trailer. The whole thing is stable enough to use while Luna is afloat.

Great solution. I would love to be able to step my mast after launching, which is not possible with my current "crane". Well done!

[AJZimm]

Bruce, How long is the mast on your Chebacco? I have been manhandling the mast on my new boat, Camas Moon, which is also stepped through the deck on the hull bottom, but it is just barely do-able. I need some sort of solution like sheer legs or a gin pole.

The one potential limitation I can see for sheer legs is that, if the mast is too long, the balance point may be too high up to reach once the mast is stepped, or when unstepping, in order to undo or fasten the sling strop.

[stromborg]

That is a very clever system.

The one potential limitation I can see for sheer legs is that, if the mast is too long, the balance point may be too high up to reach once the mast is stepped, or when unstepping, in order to undo or fasten the sling strop.


Alex, if the balance point is too high to reach might a downhaul on the strop work? It would also keep the strop from sliding up at an inopportune moment!

[Bruce Bateau]

I believe the mast to be about 19' feet long, the sheer legs are about 12'. If you want details, I can certainly measure.

This is a design that is well worth using! It not only makes stepping the mast low stress, it makes you feel like a physics bad ass!

It's also worth noting that the balance point is critical, but isn't too hard to calculate, once you understand how the system works. Here's zoomed in picture- again look at the red line (rope).



-Bruce

[jpatrick]

Bruce, how does that fore line, that supports the shear legs, not interfere with the mast? They both would seem to want to inhabit the same physical space at the same time.

Jeff

[Bruce Bateau]

Bruce, how does that fore line, that supports the shear legs, not interfere with the mast? They both would seem to want to inhabit the same physical space at the same time.

Jeff

It seems like it would be in the way, but you hardly notice it. The mast just leans a bit against it. I suppose it kind of helps keep the mast lined up with the keel during raising or lowering...

-Bruce

[Bruce Bateau]

The other thing that happened is in the course of redoing the rigging, the mast seemed a little more bendy than maybe was a good idea. That necessitated a forestay, which initially I didn't want, but it kind of made sense in the end.


We also added a flag halyard via a bee hole. And I sewed a moon flag since the boat is called Luna.


Tim gave me a pig stick with a brass wire/loop system that lets the flag spin all the way around the pole, so it doubles as a wind indicator, which I found very helpful.

[Bruce Bateau]

One emerging issue is the the previous owner applied bottom paint to the hull and to the rudder. It was a bit corroded when I got it, but after a nice long salt water trip, it's really got issues. In the pic below you can see the greenish fitting where the rudder shaft emerges from the hull.



I plan to disassemble the whole thing this winter. Below is a picture of the top of the rudder shaft (vertical) and the tiller handle attachment (horizontal).


I can't figure out how to take the "bolt" off of the shaft.



I can see the bolt that goes through the shaft is solid, but I can't figure out how it is attached on the ends. It has the same look on either end. Any ideas of how to disassemble it?

[cstevens]

Bruce, that fitting looks peened to me. I don't think it's designed to come apart. As a guess, I'd bet that the rudder stock actually ends lower down and that entire top piece fits into a socket so that it lifts off. Does that domed cap unscrew by any chance?

[Bruce Bateau]

The domed cap pops right off and you can look straight down. It looks like a solid piece of metal penetrating through to either side. Peened sounds like the right word for it.

This is going to be interesting. So besides needing to strip the paint off the rudder and start again, I wanted to disassemble the rudder shaft because it appears to go through a semi-sealed compartment (it's under the mizzen step) that isn't water tight.



Water leaked down onto the rudder for a few days after I pulled Luna out of the water... I was hoping to remove the whole rudder shaft and figure out what is going on there...

I may just choose to drill a big inspection port and figure it out that way- might be simpler.

I'm also wondering what other chebacco rudders look like. Mine isn't built to the specs that I've seen. Chebacco people- show me your rudders!

[Bruce Bateau]

We're jumping back to the rigging here folks, then we'll move on to the cruise!

The original boom/mast interface was via a big gooseneck that seemed to limit the movement of the boom/sail. It also appeared that the boom was a little short, so there wasn't an opportunity to have an outhaul. Here's the orginal interface:


Some jaws were added on and the boom was effectively lengthened. Also the wedges were replaced with a nice ring mounted to the deck and a proper mast boot (which was a fun 3-D puzzle to sew).


We also consolidated all the rigging to one side. After much convincing, I decided to keep the winches. I bought a light-weight floating winch handle too, which worked beautifully and I never worried about dropping it in the water.

Parrel beads replaced the lacing on the mast. They are tied on with spectra soft shackles. The goal was to make the system work, while also making it relatively fast to rig up.

[Bruce Bateau]

The mast was painted to hide some solid, but unpleasant looking fiberglass and the ends were painted white to give it a nice salty look.

We stripped all the reefing rigging off the boom and started over- similar to what Mike and (off line) Jamie suggested- pretty traditional and very functional.



If Jamie approves, I'll post the nice sketch he made of his system.

I was gifted a copy of John Leather's GAFF RIG. The writing is very authoritative and occasionally opinionated to the point of extreme. "Unless moderately canvassed, catboats are not easy to reef and, when this is done, they are usually poor performers in the sea which builds up." The drawings are excellent and really show useful details about rigging and show shapes above and below the waterline elegantly.

[Jamie Orr]

Feel free to post anything from me about Chebacco rigging or whatever. We used to share it all on Bill Samson's Chebacco News (now succeeded by Chebacco.com).

BTW, for those who know him, I had lunch with Bill last week and he is healthy and happy, putting his energies into building and playing guitar these days.

I saw the discussion on raising the mast earlier. For anyone still building, or thinking about it, if you build the mast slot as per plans, raising the mast is easily done, no standing rigging is needed and the slot can be built leak-proof.

Cheers, Jamie

[WX]

Another fine thread, I seem to have not been following.

[csmead]

I made mine hollow out of plywood, like in the plans.
rudder 4.jpg
Yours looks different. Is it metal?

[csmead]

It's hard to see but the rudder shaft is just an aluminum pipe to the plan's dimensions. I just bolted it to some straps on the tiller. So far, so good.
image000000.JPG
If your rudder was built to the plans, it has this triangular box under the mizzen step but over the sole.
IMG_3209.jpg
That square hole is where the rudder post passes down into the water. That has to be watertight. There's a horror story on chebacco.com about a dude who made a leaky one. It's hollow, but sealed from that square hole. The thing is, I would think that if it leaked underway, you'd be getting water running downhill into the cockpit. I can't think of what is dripping onto your rudder days later. That said, yours is way more elegant than mine, which has lag bolts attaching the rudder to the shaft, reinforced with 2 aluminum straps, and a simple bolt underneath holding it on the rotational axis.
View from side: IMG_4212.jpg and view from below: IMG_4213.jpg

[csmead]

As for reefing, I've only been out daysailing a few times now and only one time with a single reef. I don't have good pictures of my boom fittings but they're just wooden cleats, one for the tack and two for the clew. Works great so far. That picture above is the second reef. (My driveway was really windy.)

[csmead]

Well I just finished the dishes and I was thinking this over... The triangular rudder box is hollow, as I mentioned, so it has drain holes in the two compartments formed by the square hole. You can see 2 of mine over by the Titebond glue (which I did NOT use to make the rudder box). Depending on the location of these holes, it would be possible for a leak to accumulate water. It could then leak out slowly when you trailered the boat to a new angle upon parking. So there's that.
IMG_3209 (2).JPG

[Bruce Bateau]

As for reefing, I've only been out daysailing a few times now and only one time with a single reef. I don't have good pictures of my boom fittings but they're just wooden cleats, one for the tack and two for the clew. Works great so far. That picture above is the second reef. (My driveway was really windy.)

CSMead, sorry for losing the thread here. Thanks for sharing your pics- that's a lovely color. I wish I was bold enough to paint a boat a bright color. Next time, for sure!

Yes your rudder set up is very different- I'm guessing the big plate on the bottom is what is in the plans? Mine just has a modest plate in the middle...

[Bruce Bateau]

So, as promised, here is Jamie's reefing diagram:

[Bruce Bateau]

With good summer weather extending into fall, instead of putting Luna away (or posting to this thread), I went out for a last weekend cruise on the Columbia River with friends.


It's taking about an hour to set the whole boat up. That seems kinda long to me, but I can't figure out how to reduce it yet. The mizzen just pops right in, there are just three control lines on the main and the rowbands on the main, oh and the forestay, but even so, threading them all up is just slow. But the sailing was so good, it was worth it. Cleaning up is closer to 40 minutes, including tie down.


We got the last spot at the free dock. A zillion big cabin cruisers had come out for their annual cruise. They mostly ignored us and we them.

But when it was dinner time, they got their party barge all fired up with food, booze, and music. Then we got invited aboard.


We decided that maybe they were OK after all...

[Bruce Bateau]

Welcome back folks. As noted earlier, we've continued to have unseasonably warm days around here- well into the 80's which is crazy for October. An overnight bike camping trip, a day sailing a Thistle, etc. has prevented me from coming back to the thread, but also the idea that perhaps I'm just rambling...

I mentioned this to my pen pal, who may well choose to identify himself later. He said, "I really appreciate the way you candidly think out loud, and problem solve your way to solutions by thoughtful experimentation. It is not a ramble so much as a well considered meander punctuated by self engineered fabrication." Further he noted that my explorations might actually be useful to some readers. I've long been grateful to the folks who answer my lubberly, silly, or developing questions on this forum, so I decided to continue on, with a focus on what I learned. I'll pen a few articles on my blog or over at 48 North Magazine about the actual adventure later and will post links here...

That said, let me go firmly back to mid-August, when First Mate (FM) and I loaded the car. (Note the gas tank did not ultimately ride in the car.)



In my past aquatic travels, I relied exclusively on dry bags- some commercially made, some home made "splash bags" to keep things mostly dry in compartments, and those worked fine, so long as I stayed organized and sealed them up. Because Luna has a cabin and lockers, I took a mixed approach and used a few dry bags for critical items, but relied on 12x9x16 or so plastic boxes with lids, as well as few actual cloth bags for stuff that would live in the cabin.

[Hugh MacD]

To be continued, I hope?

[Bruce Bateau]

Here's the cabin:



There is ample room for two people to have camping pads, sleeping bags, and misc odds and ends in the cabin at night. The problem on our initial cruise was that all the bags and personal stuff were in the way at night unless we put it outside where it might get damp at night. I solved that by adding hooks and eye loops with carabiners to hang everything in an accessible, but underused area (pink and yellow bags). This worked really well.

If I'd been solo, there would have been copious room and no shifting would have been needed. I hadn't really figured on how much extra stuff a second person adds to a boat. During the day FM liked to disappear into the cabin and read while I had my zen moments sailing extremely slowly towards our destinations. (Fortunately she isn't prone to sea sickness!) We left her bed set up on the starboard side. I bought her a a Big Agnes Q Core Deluxe inflatable pad which was $150 but made for a happy partner (and still cheaper than a waterfront hotel). She found it to be suitably firm, supportive, and not squishy like a water balloon, and no grinding hip in the night.

The big red tub on the port side was our cook box and migrated in and out of the cabin at meal time and bed time. This worked reasonably well. If we slept at the dock, I put a five gallon jug of water on top to keep marauding raccoons at bay. (It worked). And yes, they raided us.

I had intended to make some kind of shelves to manage little things and frequently needed items, but decided on a prototype approach and sewed some hanging bags with various sizes of pockets:


They weren't pretty, but worked perfectly. No more lost glasses, missing flashlights, or hidden hats.

[Bruce Bateau]

The soft storage noted in the previous post worked so well, I'm not inclined to hurry and make hard storage (as cool as I think that would look). The plastic tubs in the lockers worked pretty well and were way easier to sort through than dry bags. It didn't rain at all so that helped, though we had some dewy mornings without the cockpit tent, so things had a chance to get damp. The boxes faired fine, so long as we wiped them with a cellulose sponge before opening when damp...


The next challenge was transporting the boat. A heavier boat rides in the trailer nicely; very stable, no bouncing around. Luna has a ratchet strap about 2/3 of the way aft and a bow-eye with a safety chain and that seems ample. I'm betting even with nothing holding her down, she wouldn't move.

The boat is about as tall as the car and wide as the car. She follows along just fine. I can hear her saying, "I just go where I am towed." Stopping and starting seems fine, but sucks up a lot of gas. Backing up without being able to see is a fair bit more challenging and to do so safely I felt better about FM staying within eyesight.

[Bruce Bateau]

And that hideous orange thing on the roof of the car? That's Asteroid, our "dinghy." We call her Aster for short.



Yes, you got that right, a seven-foot long, sit on top kayak found on Craigslist for a whopping $100. That was all I was willing to invest until I decided what I really wanted. I figured that a sit on top kayak would be:
a) easy to tow
b) unsinkable
c) easy to lift on deck, up a dock, or across a shore
d) unlikely to be stolen due to low monetary value and ubiquitousness
e) super tough, no paint to scuff

All of those things proved true. She never filled with water, even when we crossed Rosario Strait in a two-foot chop. By the end of the trip a breather valve did let some water inside, but that was easily drained out.

Aster easily floated me and a backpack and was pretty low energy to get ashore. She was also easy to climb into and out of for me. With a busted arm, FM did not even attempt it, but she thought that she'd find it too unstable even with both arms. I had initially planned to drop her shore from Luna, anchor out, then paddle back ashore, but again with the busted arm, she was understandably scared to hop off the boat.

Downsides:
1. Kinda wet on hands and arms due to paddling motion (unless I was very careful).
2. Those holes in the bottom that stop it from flooding, also allow splashes to come up- including on my derriere! I solved that problem by sitting on a foam cushion.
3. Only holds one person (I knew this going into it)

[Hugh MacD]

Cool Do you have "drip rings" on your paddle? I found those help keep hands a little drier...but not completely.

[Bruce Bateau]

Yup drip rings on the paddle, but kayaks are just wet things.

First Mate has decided that a proper dinghy is required. No inflatable things. No SUPs.

After playing around with the Portage Pram, realizing I can comfortably heft it, and she thinks its charming... I want one.



So if anyone has a pram lying around, I'd be happy to buy it from you.

Otherwise, I'm going to have a spring construction project.

[cstevens]

Hey Bruce, a thought on the Portage Pram... It looks like a neat boat but I suspect that Luna is small enough that you couldn't reasonably bring one aboard? And if you are going to have to tow a dinghy anyway then I'd want something a bit larger. The Portage Pram seems pretty marginal for two people plus supplies. I'm sure it's doable but a 7' 7" Nutshell, at a foot longer, would be a much more substantial boat. Or the similar CLC Eastport Pram.

[Bruce Bateau]

You are correct, bringing a boat aboard, even Aster, is a challenge. There is a nice nook that forms between the dock and the bow, where I can hide a small dinghy without being in anyone's way.

Here's my challenge- I like to be able to do everything myself. The portage pram is big enough I could carry it solo. The eastport, while a good contenders is about double the weight. There is an eastport ultralight, which is feasible and a full kit is a modest price. One of the things I love about the CLC website is how they describe the pros and cons of each boat!

For example:
First, there's no escaping the physics of a boat this small and light. Stepping aboard will not be like stepping into a Boston Whaler, or even a small inflatable. You need to be able to shift your weight in one smooth motion from dock or mothership to a seated position in the dinghy. Hesitate during the transfer of weight and the boat will slip out from under you like a banana peel. You'll use the same caution in embarking as you would in a canoe or a beamy kayak that weighs 40 pounds. It's entirely manageable if you're used to getting into boats with so little inertia, but someone going from a 140-pound inflatable to this dinghy might be startled and wet, in that order. There's plenty of stability once you're aboard, and especially once you're seated.

Steve's thread about his portage pram, and input from Derek, makes me think it is feasible.

It would be nice to hear from others with small tenders what they think of their respective craft.

-Bruce

[cstevens]

Well, a few comments on the stability vs. weight equation from my own experience, for what they may be worth.

Dash has a little 7' skiff that I expect is comparable to the Portage Pram in initial stability. Meaning that it feels very tippy. It's fine for an adult and a child but it's marginal for anything more than that. It could be done, but only with careful balancing and attention to weight shifts. It would not be an enjoyable experience at all for anyone who isn't comfortable with little boats. (I'll confess that I capsized it once with an injudicious attempt to sit on the stern thwart).

I agree that the Portage Pram looks like about as stable and burdensome a dinghy as you can build for the length and weight. An inflatable like an Avon Redcrest would be more stable and weigh less but they are bad at most things and you have already ruled them out. But there is a significant increase in both stability and load carrying just in going from a 7' pram to an 8' pram that I think far outweighs the increase in weight. And when you get up to a large pram like the 9' 6" Nutshell that we have on Skookum Maru then you are approaching Boston Whaler levels of stability. The point being that stability increases as an exponent of length given a proportional increase in beam. A little extra length goes a long way.

Personally, when I think of getting aboard a (relatively) small boat like Luna from an even smaller dinghy I would want as stable a platform as possible. Especially for someone who may not be used to or entirely comfortable with tippy little boats. That's one of the reasons that we went to a larger dinghy on Skookum Maru. Having grown up with little boats I have no problem with the balancing act required to get in and out of them (ahem, well most of the time) but it's a harder adjustment for others.

As for carrying a heavier pram, it's not at all hard to carry an 8' pram solo using the "turtle" technique that I was taught when I was a kid sailing El Toros. You stand the boat up on the aft end, grab the bow thwart from the inside with your back against the middle thwart, and bend over. The boat sits on your back like a turtle shell and you can carry it easily. It's not graceful, but it's effective.