Dodger design

[RFNK]

Thanks Jim. I think I'll have about 9 from your list - traveller, beer tap, A/C and stove vent are excluded.

The project will have to wait for our La Nina system to fizzle out, so probably about May.

[Hugh MacD]

How about life raft stowage, inside fishing pole stowage, runners for shade extensions (see Dashew's FPB project)...

[RFNK]

Bump as project has commenced!

[John B]

I see that I'm going to have to do it then. Step up and say

This thread is worthless without pics...........

[RFNK]

Pics there will be, just as soon as there's something to pic. The boat's on the marina and I've decided to keep the existing coaming and effectively bolt the dodger to it. The coaming will be the base for a little dashboard, if you see what I mean. The dodger will be as high as I can get it and that will mean raising the act end of the boom, so altering the main. I want the dodger to be fairly long but it has to be supported forward of the forward winches so there's the main design challenge. I'm pretty sure I'll need posts at the back but the shape of these I haven't thought about at all yet.

I'm getting help. Along with yours and all the other ideas here, my friend David is helping and a couple of other WBF members who y'all know are helping with printing drawings and contributing design ideas. I'm very grateful for all this.

The first phase, now that all the prevaricating about the bush is over, will be to build a mock-up and then take the boat out to see how it all looks and works. I think I'll use plywood and timber for that, simply because I already have a pile of spare stuff.

I've also decided to have a three panel screen - three flat glass panels, with the middle one opening. The other two will be angled back to follow the curve of the coaming.

As much of the dodger as possible will be built from foam and glass as I want it to be light but strong enough to stand on. Foam will be 15mm and glass will probably be double bias but I'm not sure yet what weight or how many layers I'll need.

[John B]

Yes , I feel your pain.... moving my primary winches aft was a priority for me and I may have even done that a couple or few years before building the dodger.
One reason was the same as your issue, the other was they were out of reach for a two handed or single . Old fashioned big crew boat always dependent on 4 or 6 people aboard. hahhaha, like that happens these days.

[RFNK]

This bloody dodger's a'gonna be the death o' me... I've spent the last week frigging rather than rigging, in between showers of rain. We've had enough for a while .... please!!

Aaanyway, I found this picture in an old book. I think this is a really nice dodger, even though it's probably a doghouse.

IMG_20221024_072729522.jpg

One of the nice features of Masina is the curved coaming that sweeps across the cabin and then forms the cockpit sides. I'm reluctant to spoil that. But I also want a functional dodger. I want to use flat glass windows at the front and probably the sides. The problem with that is matching flat glass panels to curved coaming. It comes down to two choices: I either flatten the curve by running the three forward panels forward of the coaming or I continue with curved panels and form flat housing for the glass panels ... yuck!

So, here's some shots of deliberational activity:

IMG_20221023_120331965_MF_PORTRAIT.jpg

IMG_20221023_121140893.jpg

The blue sticks are set up to show the forward angle and also to bring the dodger a little forward of the coaming, to flatten the curve. In effect, the front of the dodger sits forward of the coaming and then leaps onto the top of the coaming as it becomes the cockpit sides. By reducing the width of the glass panels, I'm hoping I can shape the 'posts' between the windows to roughly follow the curves.

[RFNK]

Here's a rough drawing of the coaming from above. Note the offset companionway.

IMG_20221024_071907549.jpg

[Priscilla]

That black and white is almost Rhodes like. Cicero another Thunderhead had to my eye a great fixed dodger come doghouse.
Actually it was open to the cockpit so I guess not a doghouse.
IMG_20221024_072729522.jpgrhodes-aluminium-classic-50-06225070141852546653676752504557x.jpg

[RFNK]

That photo of mine is actually Thunderhead, from a book by Besler. So yes, a Rhodes design.

[Larks]

Would you consider getting an estimate on curved glass? You might be surprised how affordable it can be, I’ve had to order some for a few different commercial projects in the past - all they really do is cut a sheet of flat glass to shape, drape it over a mould and cook it until it sags over the mould.

[Priscilla]

Going to ask a silly question ,what does the fixed dodger achieve that a standard folding one doesn't apart from present a huge aesthetic challenge.
I can see the reason in a larger craft but isn't your boat this ones sister.
There is such a real sense of space achieved in a modest sized craft being able to fold a dodger down we reduced ours to the bare minimum so as not to impede companionway access and standing at the helm the forward view was not impeded.

IMG_3287.jpgIMG_5220.jpg

[RFNK]

Hi Greg, yes, I have considered it and it's a good suggestion. I want the middle panel to be able to be opened so that's easier if it's flat and not too big. So it would leave the two outer ones curved, and that would have advantages. My friend David tried to get curved glass for his recent boat build but found it difficult and expensive, and hard to replicate if necessary, at reasonable cost. I think if I end up using curved panels, I'll probably go with polycarb or acrylic, and just replace it every so often. In the first instance, though, I want to see if we can make flat, glass panels work as that's the simplest, lowest maintenance option. I think.

[RFNK]

Why a hard dodger? After two soft dodgers, we found we never folded them down, the clear screens don't last, the canvas deteriorates, they're not solid in rough conditions, they're not very weatherproof, you can't stand on them, you can't attach a thing to them etc. We always want rain and sun protection.

[Priscilla]

Get your point about “clears” we did have a removable panel to add some longevity.
Halberg Rassy 35 Rasmus may well be worth looking at.
Aluminium can be curved however if you are thinking of relocating your main sheet to the dodger top it would require some extra thought.
BFA48003-ACA0-4192-8078-7F8A59AB7E17.jpg

[John B]

Guava Jelly was the Rasmus we met up with in Minerva reef in 2011 and I've mentioned a few times in my threads. ( Actually he was one of the visitors who stayed with us at our house after Nina was lost). Cool and inexpensive boat that Rick just sailed all over the pacific. Seattle to Savusavu.

[RFNK]

Yes, they're quite nice dodgers. I'm not planning to move the mainsheet onto the dodger although I will be converting the traveller to a two or even three point setup something like the twin point setup in that first HR35. Those dodgers have a 3 flat panel windscreen arrangement. Looks nice and traditional, I think.

John (Johnno) has sent me a conceptual drawing of a system whereby I'd have the 3fp windscreen built from - whatever (I'll use glassed foam) but the roof and sides are supported by SS tube. So rather than supporting the rear overhang with box-type construction, there are SS posts forming a rear hoop frame. The other SS tube is a hoop frame behind the windscreen. It's a sort of modular arrangement with several separate components fitted together. The 3fp screen, a grp roof, SS hoop frames and detachable clears at the sides and rear. John referred me to the Tartarooga website https://tartarooga.com/gallery/ which shows some ideas on integrating handrails into the SS frame and roof setup.

One issue with Masina's dodger is that I can't have too much camber. The dodger needs to be fairly low to fit under the boom and Masina has an offset companionway. This means I can't take the dodger roof down at the sides very much or there just won't be enough room to wriggle down into the cabin. Some people find it awkward even without the dodger, due to the low boom.

[John B]

Interesting. Tartarooga is what I've been calling the Califorinia style dodger as earlier in the thread.
Its subjective but , as much angle forward even if its a trick of the eye ,makes for the best looking dodgers to me. I had much angst over that same issue.

[RFNK]

Okay, a bit more progress on the mock-up

IMG_20221030_103314698_HDR.jpg

IMG_20221030_103338656.jpg

[RFNK]

IMG_20221030_103359275.jpg

The roof won't be this long. It's already been cut off to about where the clear is between the winches. Tomorrow I'll put some sides on it. After that, work out the shapes of the windows. The height is roughly 150mm below the boom. It's comfortable enough and is about the same as the old dodger.

[Stiletto]

The roof camber looks about right to my eye. I'm wondering if moving the bottom forward to the base of the ventilator, thus increasing the slope might reduce the apparent height . Try giving the ply a quick coat of white paint to better get the visual impact. Just my 2 cents worth.

[RFNK]

I can still slope the screen more without moving it all forward, and I might do that yet. I think I can still take it all down a bit more too.

The corners will all have fairly large radiuses so that will soften the boxy look. And yes, I'll be painting and painting on windows to get a truer idea of its look.

[John B]

My original thought was to run it forward even more than Grant suggests, but you know my ideas on that.
But it actually looks really good in that Halberg Rassey way, also as referenced above.

[RFNK]

That slope is 66 degrees. I wonder if there's an optimal angle? I could bring it down to 60 fairly easily. I'm putting some sides on tomorrow so I'll see how that looks.

[Besserwisser]

The professional look of the dodger in the pic below proves I didn't build it - but it works well for me. The front two windows open, and the angle of the wings helps soften the boxy problem. Posting it in case it might help.

Sent from my MI MAX 3 using Tapatalk

[Geftb]

That slope is 66 degrees. I wonder if there's an optimal angle? I could bring it down to 60 fairly easily. I'm putting some sides on tomorrow so I'll see how that looks.

Hey Rick, what’s the slope of the forward of your cabin top? Would it suit to match that?

[RFNK]

It's a lot less. It was my starting point but looked too upright when converted to the dodger. The slope of 66 I have now looks okay. Increasing it a little is easy enough so I'll have a look at it.

[RFNK]

Sooo...
The mock-up is mocked and ready for cladding, today, with ... Corflute as I don't need to paint it, it's easy to cut and squash into place. The point is to see what the thing looks and feels like before I waste a fortune on materials for the real thing. Already, this is what I know: The dodger will be fastened to the boat so that it can be removed at some future date. It'll be constructed with glasses foam. The roof will be biaxial glass but the rest will probably be double bias. The forward angle will be about 61 degrees. The windscreen will have two glass panes and a central, opening one of acrylic or polycarbonate, so that it's light and easy to fit hinges and latches to. There will be two rear posts, hollow, built from unidirectional glass. There'll be handrails built from tubular glass or moulded with solid glass. There's gonna be a lot of friggin' about with channels for solar panel wiring etc., and working out the shape of the rear of the roof to deflect water, provide a comfy hand hold and chin rest etc., but that'll come later. Here's a couple of shots of the workings up to this point:IMG_20221104_191206225_HDR.jpg

IMG_20221104_191125281_MF_PORTRAIT.jpg

IMG_20221104_191426615_HDR.jpg

[John B]

You must be clairvoyant, I was just looking at the thread again and about to post a whats happening question. Love that pole scoop in the pulpit too, priceless on a difficult day.
I thought there was going to be steel tube supports? changed mind or did I get it wrong.

[RFNK]

Simply converted the steel to glass. It allows better load distribution and avoids hard spots. And, with advice, I can build the whole thing myself.

I've also been debating whether to have an eyebrow. I've pretty well decided not to, to round off the corner where the roof meets the windscreen, instead.

[RFNK]

I should also acknowledge the particular assistance I've had from WBFers to this point. Trev (Gypsie) converted photos to line drawings for me and that's been really helpful. Johnno has sent me drawings, ideas and technical support, and that's been really helpful. John convinced me to include rear posts and I'm very happy to be going that way.

[Priscilla]

Part of the trick/art of designing a retrofitted element to an existing structure can be to incorporate an existing feature of the original design so the finished result does not appear lonely and draw extra focus.
As an example here is an extension to a enclosed deck handrail I took the vertical windows fan light detail and turned it horizontal.
Does the dodger camber mirror the cabin trunk? maybe the radius of the portlights could be included in the dodger.
IMG_1160.jpgIMG_1594.jpg

[RFNK]

Yes, that's what I try to do where possible. The dodger camber will reflect the cabin camber. The windows will have rounded corners and I'll see whether they can match the ports. The ports have chromed bronze frames so I'm looking at having similarly styled frames around the windows. They might not be bronze though. I might mould them with fibreglass and paint them white. Not sure yet.

[RFNK]

Trimmed the mock-up and sheeted it with corflute. Next step is design of the windows, sides forward of the winches and the rear posts.

IMG_20221105_162823562_HDR.jpg

IMG_20221105_162949636.jpg

IMG_20221105_162812748_HDR.jpg

[RFNK]

And here she is with some windows, a bit of shape to the sides and some angle on the rear posts. Tomorrow we'll take her off the marina for a better look.

IMG_20221106_154927878_HDR.jpg

IMG_20221106_154206718.jpg