Dodger design

[RFNK]

Where's the wheel Rick, measured from the c'way?

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There's a tiller swung from the rear of the cockpit, so that's just forward of the traveller you can see in the first photo.

[RFNK]

Rick - She is so dreamy. I hope the canvas doghouse is everything you'd want and working hard to keep your skin healthy and as spot free as possible. You have too many great years ahead of you on her.

Thanks Ted!

[John B]

Aesthetics is always important but really the first objective is function , seeing over it or through it, fitting underneath it and with a bridgedeck, whether you can get under and down the companionway .
I shaped up my first canvas dodger with battens and met my objective, different from anything I'd seen back then, and that was to be able to sit outside under it when it was raining. Most of those I'd see were just glorified windscreens really. Yes they'd stop spray and wind but that's about all, mine came right back 2 ft over the cockpit seats and folded dead flat in the nice weather or for classic events and races.
The hard top dodger for Riada I messed with for years with battens and pvc pipe ,making frames to test access, trying different ideas to get around the multiple idiosyncrasies of the boat.
A traveller directly forward of the hatch, a bridgedeck, a mizzen mast ,offset companionway, extraordinarily low boom, 90 lb primary winches in the wrong place.

Because all good looking dodgers have one thing in common and that's the angle of the screen. .. I couldn't have that because of the traveller location and I would not compromise that function. I had to trick that look.
45 degrees thereabouts always looks good . The sides have to taper in at a nice angle too, too much gets you a pin headed look I don't like and it doesn't get you anything. Like I said earlier more squared, by which I mean gently angled sides and a radiused top to maximise the interior suits me. I can't remember what the sides angle is but I picked up a cue off the boat and reflected that.
Anyway, my suggestion is to mock it up. I did that with battens first, then full panels from doorskins/3mm mdf to tune the function and appearance.

Drew it in MS paint on a scaled photo .Then I decided how ( a 6 legged ss tube frame with hard top in my case ) and made that full tube frame template I put in the earlier post. Windscreen is 3 mm lexan lashed on .
So what I'm suggesting is that drawing it is fine and great for ideas but springing some pvc plumbing pipe around gets you the critical functions first.
Apart from those winches as noted , your challenge looks to me like getting in under and down the steps.
I had the same issue and made a full hatch opening over, leave it off in good weather, put it on in the wet or rough.


Hahaha, I just went back to 2015 and looked at an early dodger mockup of mine using bamboo, a towel on clips and "Ricks ladder".

IMG_9156.jpg

[RFNK]

I'll do all that f'r sure JB - excellent advice! Sadly, though, I still don't have Rick's ladder!

Although, in yet another amazing six degrees, Twilight Zonish kinda Thang, I do STILL have the intention of making one!

Drawings will be welcome and I will certainly make a mock up. I'd forgotten about your PVC frame - I'll do that for sure.

[John B]

Where is Ricks ladder... I'm getting concerned. I know I found it on a beach and you must have liked the look of it from 1000 miles away....
But where?
I've had fun looking back at some photos, that last trip with Phil.
Building
Studio_20211217_215833.jpg
I finished it and ran it without side clears for a season, discovered that the roll down the sides was too much and caused some annoying helm vision issues for me, so those sides got sectioned a couple of inches or so.


What my dodger looks like now after 6 or 7 years and two pacific trips
FB_IMG_1638783078990.jpg
The back half of each side unclips, the hardtop hatch unclips in good weather too, or gets hinged up when stopped. I double the length of the hatch with a gimmick for at sea for full cover. Jack lines go to aft post high up so no harness tether hookups going forward.

Missing! Or yet to be added, and you must do this. .. make a 20 or 30 mm moulded rail across the aft span of the top. It makes a natural grab but most importantly it stops any water runoff into the cockpit.

[RFNK]

Yes, I've always said I'd do that. Are they grab handles on the sides? What's the high post aft that you have the jack lines fastened to? My wild guess is that you don't mean that extra mast (thingy) .....? My rough plan is to run jack lines from the new dodger, keeping them as close to centre as possible.

Your dodger looks great!

[RFNK]

Ah, I see the jack line going to the aft-post-of-ze-dodger. Excellent, so you can clip on from the cockpit even when the clears are down. That's another arrangement I'll copy - thanks!

[Quest]

Hi Rick,
Sorry I missed your previous reply. Boat is in the water and sailing, but like any boat still tinkering with sheets and other things. Slowly building skills and confidence, and ruthlessly watching threads from yourself and Greg for future improvements!

Post Christmas I think I will have a play with the hard top again. Hadn't really thought of foam as I have never used it so will be good to see how you end up with your design.

Mal

[Besserwisser]

There's a tiller swung from the rear of the cockpit, so that's just forward of the traveller you can see in the first photo.

It's a bonus to have a tiller; much better feel and simpler mechanics. My ferro, about the same length overall, came with a wheel and I'm stuck with it.

Not least, a tiller allows the helm to sit right up against the companionway bulkhead and out of the weather with even the meanest of dodgers. With a wheel, the shelter must come to it, as per my pic posted earlier.

Anyway, I'm sure you know all this and I've nothing in particular to offer - but will be following your build with interest. Cheers


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[John B]

I've been snapping Dodgers as I see them.
This one is very professional, the organic look. Not so fond of the cutaway back piller but certainly well done. It has that must have for the tropics, an operable front screen/hatch.
20211222_132647.jpg

[John B]

I like this motor sailer
I think he's done everything right with his angles and camber on that dodger.

20211224_124541.jpg

[RFNK]

Hmm, both look good to me, JB! Thanks!

[Besserwisser]

Re the tip somewhere above about using pvc plumbing pipes to help in the design stage...I've found those fibreglass sail battens serve the same purpose.

Whichever is found free in the shed, I suppose

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[John B]

Heres one I'm anchored beside just now. Again I'm not saying it's right for Masina but its very well done, has some nice cues with its eyebrow, camber and that pretty little tweak in the top at the back piller. Not to mention the traveller on top for a clear and safe cockpit.
I prefer more screen angle but this is built with a purpose and function in mind, perhaps to maintain the cabin top space for its dinghy.
20211230_155535.jpg

[RFNK]

Yep, thanks! The forward angle is a tricky issue. Too much and the eyebrow needs to be too big, but too little and it renders the whole thing too vulnerable. I'll let the silly season slip by and then start marking, measuring and drawing, I reckon. I still have to decide what to do with the existing coaming, whether to incorporate it in the design or simply cut it off.

[RFNK]

Re the tip somewhere above about using pvc plumbing pipes to help in the design stage...I've found those fibreglass sail battens serve the same purpose.

Whichever is found free in the shed, I suppose

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The advantage of pipe is that it's so easy to glue together. I don't know what I'll use yet. Maybe just plywood and tape or maybe a PVC pipe frame for first impressions ....

[John B]

I snapped this one today to add to the pool of knowledge.
20220112_134822.jpg

[RFNK]

Yikes!

[John B]

I think Masina and that boat have a great deal in common. ...both sleek, fast looking boats.

[gypsie]

Hows progress Rick?

Not sure if they can be of use, but i'm happy to draw up a pdf 'blank' of Messina in CAD if it can be of use. You can print as many as you want and scribble away.
I'd need a decent side on photo and the overall length as reference.

#45 looks good - but close to the soft dodger you were trying to get away from yeah?

I'm loving my dodger and having the spaces each side of the hatch to stash stuff as you go is very handy. I recommend going wide.
One thing i didn't anticipate is its a great roost for swallows. Their mess is a lot less than cormorants, but needs cleaning up anyway.
On hot days it's not a problem that the front doesn't open that i have noticed - keeping the cabin hatches open is far more critical.

[Stiletto]

I like this motor sailer
I think he's done everything right with his angles and camber on that dodger.

20211224_124541.jpg

I've got to agree, that dodger has enhanced the looks of that boat in my eyes.

[RFNK]

Hows progress Rick?

Not sure if they can be of use, but i'm happy to draw up a pdf 'blank' of Messina in CAD if it can be of use. You can print as many as you want and scribble away.
I'd need a decent side on photo and the overall length as reference.

#45 looks good - but close to the soft dodger you were trying to get away from yeah?

I'm loving my dodger and having the spaces each side of the hatch to stash stuff as you go is very handy. I recommend going wide.
One thing i didn't anticipate is its a great roost for swallows. Their mess is a lot less than cormorants, but needs cleaning up anyway.
On hot days it's not a problem that the front doesn't open that i have noticed - keeping the cabin hatches open is far more critical.

That would be great! I'll send you a photo. I can also print copies of Masina's original drawing but it's hull only. I've been meaning to print a few copies for months but keep forgetting. It's been very busy lately!

My plan is to putasina on the marina for a month, probably in March and then mock up a dodger or two.

[Henning 4148]

One element that I like on the boat to be dodgered is the coaming running all around the front side of the cockpit. It is a wave breaker, keeping water coming onto the deck out of the cockpit. In addition, it likely serves as a beam for the cabin roof. But I like the round shape of this coaming. If possible, I would try to incorporate it in the dodger, possibly as the foundation for the front windows. Which means bent windows. Which can need some searching for a source if you want glass. Beyond that, a combination of hard dodger and textile extension may make sense. The hard dodger part to protect from flying spray coming over from the bow in a seaway, the soft extension to protect from rain. Just ideas ...

[John B]

I like that coaming too.

[RFNK]

Whatever dodger I install will fulfil the same role as the existing coaming, whether I keep that coaming or not. I could even build the dodger just forward of the coaming so that the coaming might form a little dashboard. I haven't really tested that idea on the boat yet though. I don't think the cabin needs the coaming for strength and obtaining curved glass is not feasible but I also like that curved coaming. Some sort of happy compromise is the goal ....

[Besserwisser]

Whatever dodger I install will fulfil the same role as the existing coaming, whether I keep that coaming or not. I could even build the dodger just forward of the coaming so that the coaming might form a little dashboard. I haven't really tested that idea on the boat yet though. I don't think the cabin needs the coaming for strength and obtaining curved glass is not feasible but I also like that curved coaming. Some sort of happy compromise is the goal ....

Curved is classy though, and your boat isn't just some cheapie...

But then it's easy to splurge someone else's dosh

I suppose you've considered whether bending 3mm plexiglass might be an alternative?

Or whether an old speedboat or automobile windscreen could be adapted?

Not meaning to trawl over territory you've covered but most dodgers, mine included, seem to me just so boxy :-0


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[Hugh MacD]

Flat panels can work, but....
78-foot-KETCH-BEOWULF-update208.jpg

[Besserwisser]

Now that is a good compromise; get to keep the coaming and eat it too

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[John B]

^Beowulf is for sale too, there's a full sales video walk through on YouTube.
This is an impressive boat, the last or close to the last of Laurie Davidson's designs. We anchored behind Ace yesterday.
An integral hard dodger with a very low look.
20220130_124835.jpg
And just now..
20220131_103847.jpg

[Hugh MacD]

Yeah, I know. I just haven't won that lotto I'm too old now to use her properly even if I did win I'll content myself with my ol' Mirror.

[gypsie]

I'll PM you me email Rick when I get to a computer.

The single best drawing thing I did was on a photo taken from the aft quarter; I simply, crudely, drew over it with Microsoft paint or such. That really helped me think it through.

[John B]

I did the same , I think I had 2 shots I used and kept, drew multiple variations and styles with ms paint. It's good to have a mark or reference point in the photo for the height you need. A pretty look often means low , but it's got to be high enough to work.
Getting that height/reference point was what setting up "Rick's ladder" and bamboo and towels was about for me. A start point.

[Priscilla]

Crikey JB is that Montego Bay.

I snapped this one today to add to the pool of knowledge.
20220112_134822.jpg

[John B]

I can neither confirm or deny.

[JimConlin]

It’d be fun to compile the list of things or functions that might/could be incorporated in a hard dodger.
For starters:
main traveler
solar panels
stove vent
lighting
speakers
A/C outlet
beer tap
awning fwd. edge
heads-up instrument display
instrument pod
handrail
windshield wipers
boom gallows

One man’s silliness is another’s necessity