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Thread: Dodger design

  1. #1
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    Default Dodger design

    This is Masina

    20200613_134815.jpg

    She's a beautiful, 1970s classic design, and I don't want to spoil the boat's look in any way. I have a soft dodger but it's an annoying, impractical thing. I no longer want to put up with cloudy clears, deteriorating materials and wobbly structure. I want a hard dodger. I'll build it myself, probably from foam-cored glass, to save weight, and with safety glass or laminated glass windscreens. It'll need to be a bit low as I don't want to raise the boom. I'm looking for beautiful designs of dodgers, preferably hard dodgers, on boats with classical lines. I'd be grateful for any photos or other constructive input.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    This is an older photo with a previous soft dodger but it shows the cockpit layout, which hasn't changed much

    ad01c44db458bfc9dbb572c3d07e26d4_zpsb723ed75 (1).jpg
    Last edited by RFNK; 11-15-2021 at 02:09 AM.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Shelter-sitting headroom over the bridge deck?

    Which looks a bit narrow so how wide and what's with those tunnel/pockets that appear to be extensions of the cockpit seats and vitiate the value of the bridge deck.t

    So, before making the low hard dodger, I'd look at cockpit surgery. So long as you have a solid bulkhead as high as the seats, the bridge deck not only adds no useful strength but it also makes passage harder. So, if nothing unmovable between those two pockets, why not the seats all the way to the cabin, like the cockpit sole. Then a low solid dodger with sitting room only back about 26" or so. Or even back to the front of the tiller, allowing shelter for the helm.

    Since it's nice to sit laid out athwartships under a dodger, perhaps a fold-up bridge would be in order . . .

    Lovely lines. Named for the place in Nepal?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    ^ excellent idea.lose the bridgedeck.yer gonna hurt your back or head with a squatty solid roof.
    I have said before, They all look bad from the outside, they all look good from the inside.
    bruce

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    I doubt if the bridgedeck is going to go, there'd be all sorts of storage and access ramifications I'm sure.
    I went through this and realised that the general look I liked was that you see on what is often called a Californian style dodger. It's squarer than the organic/rounded soft dodgers we mostly see here. Because it's squared more it gains inside space.
    They also adapt well to the next step which is a hard top to replace the canvas and more clears than canvas on the sides. You see the style on J boats a lot, you might gain some cues there, use the general shape.
    Incidentally, my screen is 3mm lexan/polycarbonate , I rinse wash it periodically or carefully squeegee it to avoid scratches and its been doing fine. My clear sides are 1mm of the same , sold at Bunnings then for $80 for 5m x 1m ie cheap.

    This below is a cruising J boat and is the general shape/style of soft dodger I used as inspiration for the hard one I made. If you cut back on panel and maximise clears they become less obtrusive in my opinion.
    The other general principle I used and suited my 'clears' philosophy was that the dodger isn't there to be a structural element, I'd rather it was sacrificial and was damaged or torn off in a really bad situation. I wanted airflow too so it's not water tight, quite big gaps and holes for controls etc, but it gives shelter. In fact it needs more venting, like a removable panel in the front, getting air through in the tropics is an issue. Can't find a photo without paddle boards etc in the way.
    j2 images.jpeg
    Last edited by John B; 11-15-2021 at 01:12 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Sailor James on YouTube made a pretty looking hard dodger for his Alberg 30…

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Masina is Samoan for 'moon'. The builder's wife is Samoan.

    No, the bridge deck stays. I appreciate the logic but I'm not proceeding with structural changes. Masina was built for high latitude sailing and I aim to maintain that integrity. Yes, the dodger will be light, airy and ultimately sacrificial. The windscreen will include an opening or portable panel. I need to keep the sides fairly minimal to allow access to the forward winches.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    The cavities under the bridge deck are actually very useful spaces for storing winch handles, a spare line, towels, sunscreen etc. The companionway is awkward but how else will I remain spry as I enter my dotage? I'll look at it again but I am reluctant to change it.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Sailor James' dodger is, in principle, what I have in mind but I hope to refine the shape a little to better suit Masina. The hatches are practical but look pretty clunky. I actually have a brand new 500 X 500 hatch that I could use but it would look very clunky. I can see that I'll probably build something a bit square as JB suggests - I think that will suit Masina.

    I'm hopeless at drawing but I have a copy of Masina's lines drawn by the designer so I'll make some copies and start vandalizing them with my 'ideas', and post them here if I think they're not toooo embarrassing.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    This is Masina during a recent haul out.

    IMG_20211022_110940097_HDR.jpg

    Masina is supposed to have been based on Stormvogel and you can see that by comparing the two boats out of the water http://stormvogel.net/ Stormvogel has a squarish doghouse that looks really good, I think.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    That's what I did with Meg's revised cabin and fo'c'stle. Then I was lucky to hire Michael Mason for engineering and such. He also applied his artist's eye to the fore hatch, making that harmonious. I very much recommend that you find a designer you trust to th urn your dream to reality. Worth every penny in both aesthetics and structure.

    G'luck

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Yes, it's good advice. I'm not so concerned with the structure as my good friend David has that background but I am keen to achieve the right aesthetic balance. Finding a designer may be easier said than done though.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  13. #13
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    Default

    I've found that the dodger you get used to is the dodger that seems to suit. The old soft dodger, as posted, appears to have simple and clean lines that suit the minimalism of the boat.

    My suggestion is to recreate that exact design as a hard dodger, curved everything including the window (those patch quilt windows in Sapphire's dodger defs wouldn't suit).

    My two bob's...


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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Logical but that old dodger didn't really suit. It was too small to be really useful and didn't provide much of a handhold when navigating in rougher weather. I had a better one built and kept that for a few years. Its shape and function were better but not great. I think we can do much better than it.

    The boat was built for long distance cruising and the owner/builder was young and a bit fanatical, in the best way. The boat retains that heritage and we put up with much of the associated discomfort re accommodation but we'd like more covered area in the cockpit and better weather protection for us and instruments. The only instrument the boat was designed to have was a compass. I don't have much more but .... a bit more.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Sapphire's is a soft dodger on a normal hoop frame, nowhere did I suggest copying it. I suggest taking general overall shape cues from it and weighting clear over structure as a general approach. The more clear, the less obtrusive they are.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    I have a question about the name of your boat.
    I think that Masina means Moon in Samoan.
    I think it also means month in the same language.
    It's my half Samoan nieces name.
    Do you have any information on the name?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    "month" also means "moon", with technical adjustments.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Moore View Post
    I have a question about the name of your boat.
    I think that Masina means Moon in Samoan.
    I think it also means month in the same language.
    It's my half Samoan nieces name.
    Do you have any information on the name?
    The builder/owner's wife is Samoan. Masina means `moon' in Samoan. That's about all I can tell you about the name. The official name in Australia now is Masina Lua as there was already a Masina on the Australian registry. I didn't want to change the name and didn't want to call it Masina II so I contacted a friend in Samoa and asked how Moon Two (Masina Lua) would sound in Samoan. She thought it would be very nice so that's the name I chose. Of course the boat'll always just be Masina to us.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  19. #19
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    Default

    Hi, might as well chime in here.

    I had a lesser problem. My doghouse provided good protection for the front half the centre cockpit, but left the helm out in the weather.

    So I extended the beams of the doghouse aft to make a self-supporting central panel and fitted hinged wings each side for access to the cockpit. All of glassed 19mm ply.

    Not especially pretty, but effective. Probs won't suit your boat but maybe something about it might be useful. I'll post a pic and can take more if required.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Great idea, thanks! Maybe not applicable to my boat but every idea goes into the melting pot and helps.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    I'd take a look at some Laurent Giles designs such as "MIA" design #0361 as one example Mia – Laurent Giles Archive.
    I was aboard many times, didn't have standing head room under the cockpit roof but was still very comfortable .

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Great idea, thanks! Maybe not applicable to my boat but every idea goes into the melting pot and helps.
    I'd be keen to see what you come up with; keep us posted.

    It's defs worth pursuing. Mine took a bit of figuring but was easy to make and the reward huge. I'll paste a pic below.

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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    That curved coaming around the forward part cockpit, over the cabin, looks like it will dictate a lot - is that right?
    Those forward winches also look like a tricky thing to keep room for the handles.....

    It feels like that curve is your base point and the rest flows from that.
    Unless you go forward of it and incorporate into the interior of the dodger.

    Foam core - are you stuck with flat surfaces? Or can you achieve curves?
    Last edited by gypsie; 12-02-2021 at 12:51 AM.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Rick,
    Watching with interest. I made a hard top but it was too broad and heavy so cut it down to be just wider than the cabin hatch. Still scratching my head if it will look okay and be worth putting on.

    Mal
    Quest

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Rick,
    Do you have some good side view pics of the cockpit area, perhaps with something for approximate scale? Top and end view would be good, too, if remotely possible. Might be fun to do a bit of a "sketch contest" to see what folks come up with

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    That curved coaming around the forward part cockpit, over the cabin, looks like it will dictate a lot - is that right?
    Those forward winches also look like a tricky thing to keep room for the handles.....

    It feels like that curve is your base point and the rest flows from that.
    Unless you go forward of it and incorporate into the interior of the dodger.

    Foam core - are you stuck with flat surfaces? Or can you achieve curves?
    I think I'll just remove the coaming over the cabin. I think the dodger will land just forward of it anyway. Yes, curves are easy with foam, like plywood. I'll move the winches if I have to but avoid doing so if possible. I have new winches to fit anyway.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Rick,
    Do you have some good side view pics of the cockpit area, perhaps with something for approximate scale? Top and end view would be good, too, if remotely possible. Might be fun to do a bit of a "sketch contest" to see what folks come up with
    I don't really but I'll take some and post them here. I'm currently doing a bit of work on the boat between rain showers so I'll take some shots tomorrow if I can.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Rick,
    Watching with interest. I made a hard top but it was too broad and heavy so cut it down to be just wider than the cabin hatch. Still scratching my head if it will look okay and be worth putting on.

    Mal
    Hi Mal! We'll rendezvous there one day!! Great to hear that your boat is so close to completion.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by WFK View Post
    I'd take a look at some Laurent Giles designs such as "MIA" design #0361 as one example Mia – Laurent Giles Archive.
    I was aboard many times, didn't have standing head room under the cockpit roof but was still very comfortable .
    I do like Giles' designs, I'll do some searching.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  30. #30
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WFK View Post
    I'd take a look at some Laurent Giles designs such as "MIA" design #0361 as one example Mia – Laurent Giles Archive.
    I was aboard many times, didn't have standing head room under the cockpit roof but was still very comfortable .
    The boat pictured in my posts above didn't have standing headroom under the cockpit roof either. First thing I changed was that.

    I had presumed it had been made to order for a seriously height-challenged skipper; couldn't imagine that was built like that by design.

    But seems that does happen, and on a Giles boat no less.


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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Troy and Pascal stopped for a refit most of the way through a multi-year circumnavigation of Australia, part of that was redesigning and building a pretty sweet hard dodger for their Clansman 30.

    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
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  32. #32
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    This boat for sale has an interesting approach. A hard dodger with canvas skirts coming back.

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/3359192000


    And here's mine, Neil said it was a bit boxy.
    20150930_151523.jpg
    Last edited by John B; 12-04-2021 at 05:09 AM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    So, for anyone interested in doing some sketching, here are a couple of current photos:

    IMG_20211216_084402199.jpg

    IMG_20211216_084230873.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  34. #34
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    Where's the wheel Rick, measured from the c'way?

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    So, for anyone interested in doing some sketching, here are a couple of current photos:

    IMG_20211216_084402199.jpg

    IMG_20211216_084230873.jpg
    Rick - She is so dreamy. I hope the canvas doghouse is everything you'd want and working hard to keep your skin healthy and as spot free as possible. You have too many great years ahead of you on her.
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