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Thread: Dodger design

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks good Rick. I’m wondering about the thinking behind using biaxial glass for the roof and double bias for the rest and why you wouldn’t just use one or the other for the lot? I used double bias for the hull and deck on mine, mostly because it was significantly cheaper to buy one roll sufficient for the whole job but also because that was what may boat builder mate recommended as suitable for both. Both weaves should contour as well as each other over the curves and edges (though I think the double bias does better wrapping around the bullnosed edges) but is there a structural reason behind using different glasses on your type of job over a foam core?
    Larks

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  2. #107
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Hi Rick,
    Looks like it's all coming together.
    Have you given any thought to bringing the forward corner post slightly inboard, similar to the HR35 Rasmus in post #85.
    The continuing line of the cabin breaks the height of the dodger, making it appear lower.

    The roof overhang along each side with an eyebrow certainly helps combine the overall look. .. but that's just me.

    Cheers,
    Mike.
    Focus on the effort not the outcome.

    "Don't take life seriously. Either way, you won't make it out alive."

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    Looks good Rick. I’m wondering about the thinking behind using biaxial glass for the roof and double bias for the rest and why you wouldn’t just use one or the other for the lot? I used double bias for the hull and deck on mine, mostly because it was significantly cheaper to buy one roll sufficient for the whole job but also because that was what may boat builder mate recommended as suitable for both. Both weaves should contour as well as each other over the curves and edges (though I think the double bias does better wrapping around the bullnosed edges) but is there a structural reason behind using different glasses on your type of job over a foam core?
    Yes Greg, either would do, really. But the biaxial creates a stiffer roof and the double bias is easier to work around corners, joints etc. I'll be using unidirectional as well, for the posts and probably to line the inside surfaces of the rebates for the windows.

    Most of this is new to me so please me if there's any sense that I know what I'm talking about! I have our friend David, a shipwright who's just finished a launch built entirely from foam and glass, another local shipwright who's built lots of composite boats, and I'm sharing the marina with Jeff Schionning, who's a pretty famous catamaran designer and those you know from the WBF. All are providing lots of valuable input although not always the same input so my 'role' is to be selective .

    The dodger isn't very big so I don't really need whole rolls of material BUT, as we're still moving towards sheathing the folkboat, I will buy a roll of double bias - I think .... A few metres of biaxial doesn't add much to the cost.

    I'll put the list of materials I'll actually use here for all to see, including weights of glass etc.

    Today we took the boat off the marina to see the mock up from a distance. It was helpful to see how some details should be altered but, overall, I'm pretty happy with how it's shaping up:

    As always, ideas are welcome!

    IMG_20221107_094636833_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20221107_094640360_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20221107_094524468_HDR.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  4. #109
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    To be perfectly honest it looks just like it should size/proportion and angle wise - spot on! I can’t really imagine it being improved upon....appearance wise anyway
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  5. #110
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Thanks Greg! The corners will be rounded off, the curves on the sides will be a bit smaller, the triangular windows won't be so pointy ..... stuff like that. The next step will be to mark the boat more accurately and take more accurate measurements, and then order the materials.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks like it was born there.

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Taking her out to look at it was a good idea. Looks good! Thanks for sharing the whole process with us.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  8. #113
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Neat!
    Its personal preference thing I know but I like the lower window corners to be either tighly radiused or even 'squared' / mitred.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Dodger details:
    Roof and sides are 15mm Divynicell H80 plain foam. Roof is glassed with 600gsm biaxial, sides are 400gsm double-bias. Resin is Technirez laminating resin which is a 4:1 mix.

    This is the foam fastened to the roof mould:

    IMG_20221123_193053222.jpg

    This is foam cut as blanks for the sides. The foam will be glassed on both sides then cut for fitting. I hate cutting glass but it's hard getting good edges when glassing. I'll take some shots of the forming of edges later.

    IMG_20221123_193040788.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    This is the roof mould

    IMG_20221110_174636005.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  11. #116
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    IMG_20221124_104638103.jpg

    These are the side 'blanks' glassed and peel ply squeegeed on. The other sides of these will be glassed tomorrow. I'll glass the roof this afternoon but I'll shape the edges of the roof beforehand.
    Last edited by RFNK; 12-04-2022 at 09:14 PM.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Interesting process...I've never worked with foam or glass apart from your basic boat cloth from time to time, maybe some patches on an old dinghy. Why the variation ? Won't one cloth do the whole job?
    And how do you hold the roof section down for glassing the top.. is it relieved or some fastenings from under?

  13. #118
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Screws through battens into the foam.

    Biaxial is stiffer and stronger than double-bias. Double-bias is easier to work around edges etc. So the roof will be biaxial top and bottom with double-bias around all edges and corners. With peel ply, overlaps are rendered fairly smooth so glass overlaps and edges get hidden in the fairing process.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  14. #119
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    John convinced me to include rear posts and I'm very happy to be going that way.
    What were the reasons that convinced you, if you don't mind my asking? Was it simply a matter of strength or something more complicated?

    To me, the posts are a negative aesthetically but I can of course understand aesthetics being outbid by functional considerations.



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  15. #120
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks to me like the rear posts will be great handholds when moving out from under the dodger and going forward. Maybe not the best aesthetically, but imminently practical, no? Looking good, Rick

  16. #121
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Yes, that's the reason. As you duck under the dodger, you need to steady yourself and the rear posts will serve that purpose. They also provide a solid frame to fasten clears to.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  17. #122
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Some progress
    These are glassed sheets glued together with filleting mix. There's packing tape on the boat so this will be lifted off for shaping and finishing next, once I've marked out where to cut it to fit the roof.

    IMG_20221204_105559293.jpg

    IMG_20221204_105822880.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  18. #123
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    This is the dodger body with the cavities for the windows cut out

    IMG_20221211_125158324_HDR.jpg

    The edges of the cavities and the backs of the sides are routed out with a little bearing rebate bit

    IMG_20221211_125210903.jpg

    This trench gets filled with a fillet mix and then the cavities get sanded back to their drawn lines. After that, I'll cut rebates all round, then glass those, for the windows. The side windows and the two front outside windows will be tempered glass but the centre window will be polycarbonate, as it will be hinged to open.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  19. #124
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks great, nice work

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Thanks Neil!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks great Rick, I was wondering how it was going.

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Thanks JB! Tomorrow I hope to sand back to the window lines and then cut all the rebates, and make up the templates for the glass.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  24. #129
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks good from here. Nice work.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks great!
    Thanks for having us along!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  26. #131
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Thanks Kevin and WW!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  27. #132
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks perfect Rick, nice design, nice work.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  28. #133
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looks like I am going to be the odd one out but hey it wouldn't be for the first time ,however I would not have ever contemplated putting a hard dodger on that cracker of a sailboat boat.
    Don't fix it down too aggressively as someone will want to remove it in the future.

  29. #134
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    It'll be fastened down in a way that will allow later removal. Having sailed the boat from NZ and sailed it quite a lot around here over the last 8 years or so, there's never been a time when I've wanted to lower the soft dodger. I've worn out the soft dodger that came with the boat and the dodger I replaced it with over that time.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  30. #135
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Looks perfect Rick, nice design, nice work.
    Thanks Trev!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  31. #136
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Some progress ....

    Glass for the sides and forward wings has been ordered - 5 mm tempered. The centre, opening window will be 12 mm acrylic.

    The window cavities have been rebated and then rounded off with filler. Then glassed. I glassed the vertical sides yesterday and have just glassed the horizontal sides this morning.

    IMG_20221220_111632216_HDR.jpg

    Tomorrow or the next day I'll dry fit the body to the boat. This will involve putting plastic and tape on all mating surfaces on the boat and loading up the dodger body's mating surfaces with a goop of glue and fillet mix, epoxy. Then I'll start making flanges of glass that will be the fastening bases.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  32. #137
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    To strengthen the internal corners of the dodger body, I'm making half-round tubes to glass into place. These can also carry wires if necessary. I've made a mould by just covering some conduit with packing tape and putting some bits of taped wood at the sides. I can make two tubes at once. The glass is pressed into shape with bits of taped wood. Two layers of 600 double bias. The finished tubes will be flexible enough to press into the corners and glued in place. They'll then be glassed to the body for strength. This is the mould with the first two tubes being pressed:

    IMG_20221220_144449424.jpg

    IMG_20221220_144550818.jpg
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  33. #138
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Here's the dodger body on the boat.

    IMG_20221221_164527704_HDR.jpg

    IMG_20221221_164556796_HDR.jpg

    Today I'll put tape on the boat to separate the dodger, then I'll run a line of bog to seat the dodger and form a better base for the sealant. Once that goes off, I'll check that the dodger hasn't stuck, put it back on and start laying glass for the flanges that'll fasten the dodger to the boat.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  34. #139
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Looking good! Merry Christmas.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  35. #140
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    Default Re: Dodger design

    Thanks, you too!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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