Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Proves

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    8,544

    Default Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Proves

    Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Proves
    óMichelle Starr, Sciencealert.com

    The aviation industry is necessary for the world we live in today, but it places a strain on the environment, thanks to emissions from petroleum-based fossil fuel.

    According to a new study, we could reduce these emissions by up to 68 percent Ė by switching to a sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) derived from plants. Specifically, the non-edible oilseed crop Brassica carinata, a variety of mustard plant. And it could be more cost-effective than petroleum fuel.
    .
    .
    .

    It seems like a no-brainer, except for at least one problem: The US currently lacks the infrastructure for turning the crop into fuel. The feasibility of building these facilities is the focus of the team's current research, with the hope of informing decisions to be made by farmers, investors and policy-makers.

    "Our results would be especially relevant to the state of Georgia, which is the sixth-largest consumer of conventional aviation fuel in the country, hosts the busiest airport in the world, and is home to Delta, a leading global airline company," Dwivedi said.

    "I am looking forward to pursuing more research for providing a sustainable alternative to our current model of air travel. Carinata has the potential to be a win-win situation for our rural areas, the aviation industry, and, most importantly, climate change."
    The rest of article here: http://sciencealert.com/using-plant-based-jet-fuel-could-carve-out-a-huge-reduction-in-emissions


    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    I haven’t checked the background yet but it sounds like another oil methyl ester process comparable to to the known biofuels. The article hints at the problem, how many acres per ton per year do we need? And will energi crops replace food crops in some areas. My current opinion is that biofuels can be a local alternative under certain conditions and reduce fossil emissions. But it is not scalable, so the 6x% reduction in aviation is unrealistc.

    sadly, I don’t have a better Idea either.

    Uwe

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    113,874

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by ufi73 View Post

    sadly, I donít have a better Idea either.
    telecommuting
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Pompano Beach, FLorida
    Posts
    1,192

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    I keep wondering if biofuel plants might be a good use case for factory aquaponic farming. The plant types seem like they'd work, and it's not like we care if there's too much fertilizer in our jet fuel. So it becomes just a case of cost/benefit for the location, vs cheap farmland I would think. At which point zoning laws, or crop restrictions, could probably tip the scales fairly easily for no cost. Maybe a small subsidy for a short term to get it off the ground.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    24,228

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    The attentive reader will notice that the article contains no definition of which emissions might be reduced, or how.

    The devil is - as happens all too often - in the details.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    63,378

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    telecommuting
    Yep, but maybe in the future the Bezos Empire has North and South Dakota devoted to growing biofuels for Jay Lenoís garage which Bezos royalty uses to drive around the northern territories of Amazon Inc.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    If you burn petroleum oil in a jet engine you get emissions. If you burn oil derived from plants in a jet engine you still get emissions. You're burning a hydrocarbon both times.

    "the burning of biodiesel produces carbon dioxide emissions similar to those from ordinary fossil fuels"

    The big-picture items that offset this fact are discussed here:
    Environmental impact of biodiesel - Wikipedia

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    30,054

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    If you go hypersonic boost, a good portion of the trip will be spent in near-space emitting nothing as you ballistically coast.
    Gerard>
    Langley, WA

    Don't believe Republican lies.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    412

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    On the day that the International Air Transport Association (IATA) announced a commitment to reach "net zero" CO2 emissions by 2050,the nonprofit organization Atmosfair has opened the world's first plant to produce carbon-neutral jet fuel.
    ...
    The Atmosfair plant in Emsland is aiming to produce carbon-neutral synthetic kerosene by combining hydrogen generated by renewable electricity (from nearby wind turbines) and sustainable carbon dioxide — captured from the air and biomass. The output is to be mixed with conventional kerosene and transported to Hamburg Airport to fuel flights, including those of German carrier Lufthansa.
    https://www.dw.com/en/sustainable-av...uid/a-59398405
    GruŖ, GŁnter

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Pompano Beach, FLorida
    Posts
    1,192

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    If you burn petroleum oil in a jet engine you get emissions. If you burn oil derived from plants in a jet engine you still get emissions. You're burning a hydrocarbon both times.

    "the burning of biodiesel produces carbon dioxide emissions similar to those from ordinary fossil fuels"

    The big-picture items that offset this fact are discussed here:
    Environmental impact of biodiesel - Wikipedia
    That's one of the reasons I was thinking of factory aquaponic growth, you can put your refinery next to a 100 acre warehouse, and easily grow a thousand acres of crop in situ. Which makes a setup that can deliver at least 100k gallons of diesel a year.

    Unfortunately we would then need well over ten thousand of those facilities.

    Given that large of a venture, we might be better off working on electric airplanes.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    8,820

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Some of our current aviation fuel infrastructure is transferable to SAF. Very little of it is transferable to electric or hydrogen propulsion. That said, Boeing and airbus are already way down the road to alternative fuels: Boeing has chosen SAF and airbus hydrogen. I find it difficult to imagine aviation as we currently know it with 2 or 3 different fuel requirements. Iím guessing there will be one winner. Most likely it will be SAFs in the near term with a transition totally away from carbon exhaust emissions in the long term, way after Iím dead.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    63,378

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvida View Post
    That's one of the reasons I was thinking of factory aquaponic growth, you can put your refinery next to a 100 acre warehouse, and easily grow a thousand acres of crop in situ. Which makes a setup that can deliver at least 100k gallons of diesel a year.

    Unfortunately we would then need well over ten thousand of those facilities.

    Given that large of a venture, we might be better off working on electric airplanes.
    Or simply not flying for pleasure.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    n.c. tn
    Posts
    9,330

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    So... mustard gas?
    (-:


    If you burn petroleum oil in a jet engine you get emissions. If you burn oil derived from plants in a jet engine you still get emissions. You're burning a hydrocarbon both times.

    "the burning of biodiesel produces carbon dioxide emissions similar to those from ordinary fossil fuels"

    The big-picture items that offset this fact are discussed here:
    Environmental impact of biodiesel - Wikipedia
    yes.

    and no.

    burning fossil fuels releases previously sequestered carbon back into the current cycle.

    burning generated fuels simply (re)cycles current cycle carbon.

    the above holds true to the extent fossil fuels are not used (fertilizer/transportation/etc) in the generation of recyclable fuel.

    this, literally, is not rocket science.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bradford, VT
    Posts
    10,527

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    When the EPA calculates carbon emissions for automobiles, it just ignores any due to ethanol in the fuel. Not surprisingly, ethanol containing fuels are found to reduce carbon emissions.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulgong. Central west N.S.W. Australia
    Posts
    5,309

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    The state of Georgia hosts the busiest airport in the world? That would be Atlanta. Could that be right?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    113,874

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    yes
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Mankind currently consumes some 97.000.000 barrels oil per DAY. Plus natural gas and biofuels, the latter having a rather smal marked share (I have no Numbers on the marked share Of biofuels today). I don’t think that a single alternative will save us. Veggi oil based fuels will hjelp in aviation as they are compatible with the infrastructure. Electrical cars can help in some localities but we need to remenber that we are supposed to electrify some industriens as well. In Europe I see the risk that we suddenly have the transportation sektor electified but lack the electricity.

    Producing liquid fuels from electricity appears to me the worst possible use of high value electricity with an abyssmal efficiency. Looks good though on paper. Methanol from electricity and captured CO2 costs 55 GJ/ton (electric). Produced from gas it requires 28-32GJ/ton (heat). The ratio will be comparable for other fuels I guess.

    the energy and petroleum/chemical industry has an initeresting future.

    Uwe

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    63,378

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by ufi73 View Post

    the energy and petroleum/chemical industry has an initeresting future.

    Uwe
    We’re negotiating with the inevitable.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    11,929

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Or simply not flying for pleasure.
    Yep, just stay home and cower wearing a mask.
    One thing the younger generation seems to value is travel over accumulation of objects. Iím not seeing leisure travel slowing down. In fact itís actually at pre pandemic levels. Normally this time of year we see empty seats on the jets. Not now.

    I read an article recently about a project Porsche is doing in Chile. They are combining CO2 scrubbed from the air and combining it with hydrogen. Hydrogen and carbon. Hydrocarbons. Fuel. Very small scale now, but itís a carbon neutral method if you use solar to split water molecules.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    11,929

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    The state of Georgia hosts the busiest airport in the world? That would be Atlanta. Could that be right?
    Correct.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    63,378

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Yep, just stay home and cower wearing a mask.
    One thing the younger generation seems to value is travel over accumulation of objects. I’m not seeing leisure travel slowing down. In fact it’s actually at pre pandemic levels. Normally this time of year we see empty seats on the jets. Not now.

    I read an article recently about a project Porsche is doing in Chile. They are combining CO2 scrubbed from the air and combining it with hydrogen. Hydrogen and carbon. Hydrocarbons. Fuel. Very small scale now, but it’s a carbon neutral method if you use solar to split water molecules.
    Trading crrrap for travel sounds like a good deal. What is happening now is what provides global warming. What is happening now is a one way ticket using a depleting resource. Masks and cowering are not related to the topic. Bio jet fuel like 600hp electric trucks is not any real response to GHG emissions. It’s negotiating with the inevitable which is less energy use. So sure RIGHT NOW everything is fiine.
    Last edited by LeeG; 10-17-2021 at 01:09 PM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    I agere with LeeG in that the total energy consumption must come down. And the remaining consumption must a) emit less fossile CO2 and b) in a best case scenario reuse or sequester the CO2. To keep a reasonable (from our western point Of view) standard Of living we need to use the energy more efficiently. We cannot Afford to waste energy. The losses in the prosessen from wind to hydrogen and CO2 to e-fuel to the wheel are what, 80% (I have no idea but the final step from fuel to wheel is only 60% ish I think). So its stupid to produce e- fuels instead Of using the energy directly. Unless we have surplus electricity that cannot be stored or used otherwise.

    Uwe

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    788

    Default Re: Jet Fuel Made From This Crop Could Cut Emissions by Up to 68%, New Analysis Prove

    So its stupid to produce e- fuels instead Of using the energy directly. Unless we have surplus electricity that cannot be stored or used otherwise.

    Some weeks ago the spot price for electricity was actually negative for a short while. A week later the spot price was record high. That's the problem with a high proportion of wind generated electricity. The problem is European more than Swedish, but our grids are tied together so a shortage in Germany affects the prices in Sweden. Maybe hydrogen production could serve as a buffer so the wind electricity producers get paid also when the winds are fair, and hydrogen production is shut down when the prices go up.
    /Erik

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •