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Thread: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

  1. #36
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Nah, cruelty and destruction are the Republican plan. They are evil.
    Some of them; no argument there. But they didn't engineer Covid or inflation or any response to it.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  2. #37
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Keith,

    really? WTF? Republicans didn't engineer any response to COVID-19?

    I can only hope that's not what you meant, but it's certainly what I understood from the words you posted.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  3. #38
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    No you're not. The trouble with conspiracy theories ('Cruelty and Destruction are The Plan.') is that they attribute WAY too much power and organization to the supposed conspirators. Cruelty is real enough, blundering is common, destruction sometimes follows, but 'The Plan' is beyond human capability. Evil people are not gods. We may be in for a run of inflation set off by Covid disruption, analogous to how OPEC set off the last round. But a tinfoil hat won't help.


    In general (not specific to inflation), your premise is staggeringly wrong. Perhaps what you mean is that only PART of any results or consequences are the result of specific intentional plans. But evil plans do exist, and do cause consequences.

    Think of Nixon admitting to senior aides that the "war on drugs" was a very intentional political strategy to discredit and break up his political enemies--hippies, and people of color. And then think of the consequences of that plan. Not all of today's drug/incarceration/racism problems are the direct result--but many (I'd argue the vast majority) ARE.

    Wake up, man! Wake up! Plans are real. They are not the whole story, but they are very real.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  4. #39
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    ^ that

  5. #40
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    A plan doesn't need be written down or even discussed to be a plan.. everyone (the greater mass) responding in sync constitutes 'a plan'.


    our culture 'works' by creating suffering to compell workers to perform jobs that are filthy, disgusting, and underpaid. if 'the market provided', those jobs would demand higher pay. 'free market' is the very last thing the 'free market' wants.

    Cruelty and Destruction are the Plan.

    and there are those who do speak it. for any thinking person to categorically deny 'conspiracy theories' after The Maine!, Robber Baron Excesses, the Gulf of Tonkin, The Church Commission, the two links I included, above - the Panama & Pandora Papers, ntm the last 4 years of freaking trump! is itself insane.

    Bad news, Keith, others.. our lives are ruled by conspiracies and plans both large and small. Truthfully, most of the plans respond to and direct what is now known as 'game theory'.. ie, less absolute and more generate and direct inertia, but exist and rule our greater lives, they do.

    heard years ago - "When our culture fits us well enough, we call it free". the conservative version is "I got mine, screw you". color me a lorax, I speak for the powerless.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    wondering.. how many here still imagine it entirely accidental that facebook and Cambridge Analytica conspired to open certain games aps to allow CA to access 'friends' profiles in order to direct applicable propaganda ads at individual targets.. or imagine that trump and brexit were unforeseeable occurances - even tho they came on the heels of a few decades of increasing world wide fascism?

    further, those games (fb/abdroid/iOs/etc) now promulgated are not just leisure time excesses.. they are tools to catalog and direct belief/opinion/purchasing. play them at our peril!


    I'll try to look later for the videos (at least one TED Talk) of the AI programmers warnings. I know I have them book marked.. but where? life has become (even more) chaotic. 0-:

  7. #42
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    we now return to our regularly scheduled broadcast. carry on.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    our culture 'works' by creating suffering to compel workers to perform jobs that are filthy, disgusting, and underpaid. if 'the market provided', those jobs would demand higher pay. 'free market' is the very last thing the 'free market' wants.
    Too many individuals are willing to work at jobs that are filthy, disgusting, and underpaid. A government social program might alter that, but that has not happened in the US.
    Life is complex.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    ^ willing?

    you _are_ clueless.

    not to worry. I know a history teacher who thinks the trail of tears was voluntary. they could have refused - and been shot like those who did.

    have you ever studied, hell - heard of - worker flat out murders a century back?

    'willing'.

    yeah, right.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i did not misunderstand their commentary, i've been following it quite closely for some time, bit of a hobby of mine
    besides the treasury has been making the same comments all along too. . .
    So be it.

    I did spend a few moments using an inflation calculator today. Over the past 30, 20, 10, and 5 years the annualized inflation rate is just over 2%. Perhaps 2.2% if I remember. Close to the expressed goal of the FED. This years numbers may be aberrations due to the pandemic.

    I guess the future will unfold and we will see if inflation is a worry or not.
    Life is complex.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    ^ willing?

    you _are_ clueless.

    not to worry. I know a history teacher who thinks the trail of tears was voluntary. they could have refused - and been shot like those who did.

    have you ever studied, hell - heard of - worker flat out murders a century back?

    'willing'.

    yeah, right.
    I believe it was WI-Tom who said that he was being paid well above the median income. Somewhere around $45K for an individual. I thought the pay was too low - well below the median for a household. But he was willing. Many other teachers are willing to work for low pay. No threat of death.

    When I was young, I was willing to do "jobs that are filthy, disgusting, and underpaid". No threat of death. But I realized there had to be better.
    Life is complex.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I believe it was WI-Tom who said that he was being paid well above the median income. Somewhere around $45K for an individual. I thought the pay was too low - well below the median for a household. But he was willing. Many other teachers are willing to work for low pay. No threat of death.

    When I was young, I was willing to do "jobs that are filthy, disgusting, and underpaid". No threat of death. But I realized there had to be better.
    Median individual income in the U.S. was $35,977 in 2019. As a high school teacher, I make almost exactly 150% of that median income. Combined with my wife's income (similar to mine), we are above the median household income. You continue to criticize teachers for working for "less than the median income" when in fact, many do not. That's true whether you are talking about individual or household income.

    It would be nice if you would get basic facts correct. That said, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make here.

    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

  13. #48
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Median individual income in the U.S. was $35,977 in 2019. As a high school teacher, I make almost exactly 150% of that median income. Combined with my wife's income (similar to mine), we are above the median household income. You continue to criticize teachers for working for "less than the median income" when in fact, many do not. That's true whether you are talking about individual or household income.

    It would be nice if you would get basic facts correct. That said, I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make here.
    You might point out where my comment went significantly wrong. I did say I thought you were underpaid. (I think that is a common opinion.)

    Median income for teachers in May 2020 (that might be for the 2019 school year) was $62,870 - https://www.google.com/search?q=medi...hrome&ie=UTF-8 .

    I am not critical of teachers working for less than median wage of teachers or college graduates. I have pointed out in the past that teachers used to get a premium of 20% above the college median and not they do not. Currently the median teacher income is about the same as the median college graduate - https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ege-graduates/ . But that was in the past. It may have changed since.

    My point was that people are willing to work for what they work for without fear of death.
    Life is complex.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You might point out where my comment went significantly wrong.
    I did point it out, but you must've missed it. Here we go again:

    1. You quoted median individual income (not "median income for teachers" but just "median income") as "somewhere around $45k." But in 2019, the actual individual median income in the U.S. was $35,977. So you are already starting out by overstating the median individual income significantly--your stated value is 125% of the actual value. That makes it easier for you to sell the false narrative that I'm working for less than median income.

    2. Now you've moved the goalposts, and are talking about "median individual income for teachers," which is a very different thing to talk about. Median teacher salary (nationwide) is around $62,000 from what I see online, just as your source reports.

    Now, you probably were thinking "median teacher salary" all along, but your posts did not clearly state that. The end result is deceptive, misleading, misinformation, whatever you want to call it. It leads people to believe that teacher salaries are below the median individual income, which is demonstrably not true.

    So, those are the basic facts. Stating your starting premises clearly is important. You didn't do that.

    But, if we want to discuss teacher salaries in isolation--which you seem to want to do--then I'd argue that a national median teacher income is not a particularly good place to start from. Public schools are under the authority of local school districts, whose approach to compensation varies wildly from district to district even within the same state. Pay is also commonly tied to advanced degrees, which some teachers choose to get, and some don't. Add in the startling differences in housing costs and living expenses from one region to the next, and a teacher making less than median teacher income in an inexpensive location effectively makes more than someone at the top end of the salary schedule who pays far more on their mortgage, etc.

    My perception of your consistent narrative in these and similar discussions is that you think it's a "poor choice" for people to work in any job that doesn't earn them more than median income, and you include teachers in that group.

    My take on that argument is that it's simplistic, and ignores any reason more meaningful than money for why people might be happy in their chosen career.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 10-17-2021 at 03:55 PM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  15. #50
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    My take is itís just TLTs smug innumeracy. at any time half of earners are at the median or below, by definition, and there will exist those there forever

  16. #51
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    So I’m seeing more takes blaming global inflation and supply shortages on the US Stimulus checks. These people aren’t serious are they?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    My perception of your consistent narrative in these and similar discussions is that you think it's a "poor choice" for people to work in any job that doesn't earn them more than median income, and you include teachers in that group.

    My take on that argument is that it's simplistic, and ignores any reason more meaningful than money for why people might be happy in their chosen career.
    I apologize if I misrepresented your position. It was not my intent. I will try to remember that your household is above the median.

    I never said or implied earning less than the median was a poor choice. I have said that we should bring households up to the median.

    My position - that those below the median are deserving economic assistance and those above twice the median are not, is simplistic. It has nothing to do with if people are happy. Rather it has to do with how miserable a life people who are are below the median are subjected to. You might notice that there is a lot of interest in raising the minimum wage. I don't think it is enough. I don't think it covers a lot of household that have no options in life. On the other hand the definition of median income is so poorly constructed that many rich people are below the median.

    You might notice that my position is much different than that of Biden or Obama. They thought that those at the 99th percentile deserved economic assistance. I don't.

    I am not going to say you are misrepresenting my position.
    Life is complex.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    My take is it’s just TLTs smug innumeracy. at any time half of earners are at the median or below, by definition, and there will exist those there forever
    I find it useful to use the median as an upper bound for those who need economic help. Many professional economist find it a similarly useful boundary. One between the poor and middle class.

    In fact, at the time I chose that bound for myself, every economist (listed in a summary of definitions of economic class) included those at the median in the middle class. I was willing to include those in the middle class who were below the median by some economic definitions in with the poor. Simplistic, but no worse than the professional definitions. (Except for the people at PEW who adjust for family size.)
    Life is complex.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    So I’m seeing more takes blaming global inflation and supply shortages on the US Stimulus checks. These people aren’t serious are they?
    Too many people not economically savvy enough to know when they're being fed a helping of pig-pen-pudding.

    Too many cynical ideologues willing to cook it up and dish it out.

    The bamboozled and the bamboozlers.
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation


  21. #56

    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation

    And THAT is why real estate has turned housing into the mess it is today.

    Bloody mess, but go on and blame Biden.

    Michael Seitz
    Missoula MT

    Quote Originally Posted by offbelayknife View Post

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    Default Re: the fed has decided to stop lying to us about inflation


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