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Thread: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    As a 99% singlehander I am quite fond of my little gaff-rigged yawl. More sticks!
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    How’s the gaff to set up while trailer sailing? What boat? I had sorta dismissed a gaffer as too much for what I’m doing. I think you mentioned in the other thread… but… you know… my notes are a mess.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice


    She's an Eun Mara, a far cry from what you want. But I find the mizzen very handy for keeping her pointed in more or less the right direction while getting the main raised. There is a lot of rigging but most of it soft shackles to where it goes, the tedious part is lacing the sails on. For a boat that gets sailed off a trailer 2 weeks out of the year it wouldn't be too bad, I keep mine in the water to avoid doing it more than once a year.

    Take a look at some of the Norfolk Broads boats as they "shoot" the bridges, with the right set up everything goes up and down fairly easily.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGillnet View Post
    How’s the gaff to set up while trailer sailing? What boat? I had sorta dismissed a gaffer as too much for what I’m doing. I think you mentioned in the other thread… but… you know… my notes are a mess.
    Ryan, gaffers go together pretty fast if the sail gaff and rig are bundled. Then robands on the diagonal with toggles or velcro bands to fasten stuff together. Clips for the halyards. Running a gaff rigged iceboat for a bunch of years provided lots of reasons to get efficient.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    I really like that big wide Atkin skiff...
    And could picture a family having a lifetime of great fun in that boat.
    (If I was building it I would take some time to make a well shaped board, that does make a difference)

    Boats have a way of hanging around longer than you ever imagined and even becoming part of the family
    The first boat I built some 40 odd years ago is still with us (Atkin's - I have respect for his eye) Not much of a sailer which was my naivety but it will take a half dozen out in just about any condition they can tolerate, or have a picnic/clambake out on the island.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Ben, thanks for the insight. Maybe I discounted the gaff rig too soon. I’m used to looking at larger gaffers and they seem to have a lot of standing and running rigging. I should take a look at some of the small, handy types.

    Canoeyawl! The big Atkin skiff is in top contention. It has a lot going for it. Just nervous about building a dog of a sailer since it’s proportions are outside the norm for a flat-iron or sharpie. The interior volume is great for family daysailing with a crowd, and would be so much fun with a big boom tent and sleep four aboard. My wife and kids would need to learn to love rowing, or we’d need to carry an outboard. Simple rig… maybe too simple. This is how my mind mulls… ha.

    I like it, but I’m afraid of it.

    What Atkin boat did you build? There isn’t much current info out there on their plans or boats.

    No matter the boat, I’ll be looking into shaping the centerboard and rudder. Building the foils is a center shop project.

    Humorous sharpie boat names from my art teacher / graphic designer wife: Magic, Permanent or, my favorite… Indelible.

    Ha.

    Reuel Parker’s The Sharpie Book, arrived yesterday. What a treasure. I should have ordered it the moment I considered a flat-bottom boat. I’m deep into it, absorbing all. A couple early revelations: while ‘designed’ for plywood and epoxy, the boats Parker has drawn are essentially traditional types and can be planked by substituting lumber for ply; information included on traditional construction and scantlings would just about allow building any sharpie of flat-iron from lines alone; and… this is going to be straightforward, achievable, and fun.

    The 19’ Small Ohio and 25’ Maryland Fishing sharpies are serious contenders.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Maybe Doodle would be a good name. Sorry. That’s a really bad joke.

    1ECB3EE0-4CC6-45F9-BB5F-C54BF5F2D686.jpg
    My little tiny baby “sharpie” “skiff” “canoe” had a lug sail, and it looked pretty sharp, I think. It’s a handy rig, if only because it’s easy to rig and reef…

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    That’s a fun looking little guy!

    Recent parenting sharpie name inspiration: Not On The Walls!!

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    C142E2A9-BD50-4DB3-BAEE-CB0026445962.jpg
    I may have drawn a series of “Doodles” in sharpie marker and flooded the bilge with them for a while.
    That’s why the name Doodle.

    My little tiny sharpie was both fun and completely miserable. Hahaha. I graduated to a duck punt, and it has sufficed, so far.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Pemaquid.html
    (Stretched it a little and curved the sides)
    Plans were from how to build 20 boats...
    6C2DE109-ECC9-414A-8697-A083A38C3962.gif

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Nice! I really do like the Atkin catalog. They have such great proportions.

    Organizing the old tools. Many of these aren’t needed for a sharpie build, but they’re family tools with 100+ years of mojo. 16A3EA49-AFAC-4158-B48F-2636DAD1F94D.jpg
    D1C91051-95A0-4824-BCAD-65AE5441065E.jpg

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Beauties. Very useful!

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    I like old things. You should see the jalopies I drive. One of the small wooden planes has a round sole. Useful for backing out planks for a carvel build. It was nice to go through the tools and make ready. Puts one in the right mindset.

    I’m not so unhinged as to go at this with hand tools alone, but I’ve always been one for traditional methods. You should see the mill I’m slowly building to make bamboo rods c.1947. It’s about process and experience as much as production.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Nothing better than one of those backing out planes to tune oar blades.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Coot was a 22' cross-planked sharpie ketch by J. Emmett that appeared in How to Build Twenty Boats No. 6 in 1940. The design shows a cabin, but I've read that it has been built as an open boat. If you search forum titles for "Coot" you'll find lots of threads. Plans used to be on the Polysail website, but that site is now gone. They also were available from D.N. Goodchild, but their site also seems to be nonfunctional.

    I have a copy of the old magazine. If you're really interested and can't find the plans anywhere else, I can scan them and send them to you.
    I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very nicely and then go out and do exactly what I want! (Apologies to Lerner and Lowe.)

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    I’ve come across Coot. Lovely lines, especially with the clipper bow. There were one or two other designs with cabins that looked good and I thought about building them as open boats. Not sure what it would do to trim and balance… but it’s a thought.

    The ‘research’ phase is probably a bit out of control…
    13D1C8E8-0624-424B-B0C1-20FC812D6744.jpg

    but coming to an end soon. Hopefully.

    What I’m learning is that the basic hulls aren’t too different. It comes down to things like interior, decked or not, rudder type, and… rig.

    That’s my current hang up. I know I want something near 20’ with enough beam and interior depth for non-sailors to feel secure without compromising sail qualities too much. Transom-hung rudder with a skeg, rather than a New Haven-style rudder. Scull or row in calms. Easy enough. There are several that check most - but not all - of the above.

    The rig has me searching. If I can decide how I want the rig to work for me… well then I’ll be ready to set up and start building molds, foils, spars. You know… start actually building.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Sharpies and flatirons I’ve been looking at have quite a few different rigs that would be historically authentic. Versions of the leg-o-mutton seems to be favored over all others, especially in New England. I don’t know that I’ve found a single spritsail rig on anything except for rather small skiffs. I’m not entirely hung up on being ‘authentic’, but quite a few of the modern designs also use the leg-o-mutton or a Marconi.

    Here’s a traditional sharpie rig from Chapelle’s Boatbuilding. I actually like this 24’er a lot, but I’m not keen on the vertical reefing. This rig is sometimes seen with a vertical club at the clew on one or both sails.
    18A8CFBC-CB8E-4935-B501-23411FE40ED7.jpg

    Sail plans for Reuel Parker’s 19’ Ohio Sharpie. I like this boat a lot, but the leg-o-mutton ketch doesn’t hold a lot of interest and I’m not sure yet about the sloop. That sail has a batten to create the shape of a gaffer with topsail.
    BFC6275E-A674-48BB-8101-862FECD4FBBC.jpg

    The larger lake pound net boats flew this sail in a ketch rig. From ASSC.
    051AC4F5-A529-4858-9F5C-B47A16290FDC.jpg

    Cedar Key rig. ASSC.
    F32C5E58-9CBC-4EB8-9E0D-9E105BB1E4B3.jpg

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    A couple of Maryland rigs.

    Parker’s 25’ Maryland Fishing Sharpie. I like this boat a lot too. Daggerboard though. Interesting rig.
    2AD92866-32EA-43C5-807A-8CA78FA52752.jpg

    Sloop version in Chapelle’s ASSC. This boat is a double-ender.
    1A04D9B3-59FF-4BD0-84CD-9A2515E48AD0.jpg

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGillnet View Post
    I’ve come across Coot. Lovely lines, especially with the clipper bow. There were one or two other designs with cabins that looked good and I thought about building them as open boats. Not sure what it would do to trim and balance… but it’s a thought.

    The ‘research’ phase is probably a bit out of control…
    13D1C8E8-0624-424B-B0C1-20FC812D6744.jpg

    but coming to an end soon. Hopefully.

    What I’m learning is that the basic hulls aren’t too different. It comes down to things like interior, decked or not, rudder type, and… rig.

    That’s my current hang up. I know I want something near 20’ with enough beam and interior depth for non-sailors to feel secure without compromising sail qualities too much. Transom-hung rudder with a skeg, rather than a New Haven-style rudder. Scull or row in calms. Easy enough. There are several that check most - but not all - of the above.

    The rig has me searching. If I can decide how I want the rig to work for me… well then I’ll be ready to set up and start building molds, foils, spars. You know… start actually building.
    You are just at the beginning!!! The Dory Book neds to be examined next! ��

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by alkorn View Post
    Coot was a 22' cross-planked sharpie ketch by J. Emmett that appeared in How to Build Twenty Boats No. 6 in 1940. The design shows a cabin, but I've read that it has been built as an open boat. If you search forum titles for "Coot" you'll find lots of threads. Plans used to be on the Polysail website, but that site is now gone. They also were available from D.N. Goodchild, but their site also seems to be nonfunctional.

    I have a copy of the old magazine. If you're really interested and can't find the plans anywhere else, I can scan them and send them to you.
    I have been onboard a " Coot". Built in the early 1950's she had a Palmer 5 hp inboard engine.
    Better on paper than in the flesh I think, it is quite small inside and may prove a disappointment. Real cozy for two I would say...

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Who wouldn’t want to be cozy with me?

    How would it be as an open boat?

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Then, there’s this…
    16516EA6-7B78-4D7D-88C2-D11DF658FF46.jpeg
    This actually isn’t a sharpie or flatiron. It’s one of Reuel Parker’s Seabright skiffs. I just think the rig looks handy. Simple enough to be easily set, reasonable reefing schedule (especially if it will balance under jib/jigger), able to singlehand, yet enough strings to pull to keep a crew engaged.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by koederfischgriller View Post
    You are just at the beginning!!! The Dory Book neds to be examined next! ��
    Oh… that isn’t my whole library. Just those that mention sharpies or flatiron skiffs!

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Here’s a photo of the Maryland-style sloop rig. This boat is salty as hell.

    26259D9C-794C-4FDB-99A8-7A23437A024A.jpg
    1504CF66-3B47-4A3E-B203-5E0CB9D4C546.jpg

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    love it
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  26. #61
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice


    I'm trying to understand the rig on this. Is there a horse carrying the mainsheet over the tiller? What are those two lines running aft from the tack of the main? Clearly not the jibsheets. While up in the bow, I am remembering an unflattering review of the performance of that style boomed headsail.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    The two lines are on a block on the mast below the main tack and I believe are centerboard tackle. The main sheet is on an iron horse or rope traveler. I have zero experience with that type headsail and would love some input.

    Still leaning towards a two-mast rig, but this is a fishy rig.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    I've been eyeballs deep in researching rigs lately, hoping to find a bit more efficiency in my current boat's set up as she is currently pretty "unweatherly". Maybe I can find the reference. Ben Fuller might be along to dispel my half-formed though on it. Adding another foot to that bowsprit would make the headsail more "conventional".

    Is there a historic type of boat native to where you'll be sailing? Seems like in the old days (pre-mass production) the locals did a pretty good job of refining their boats to suit their particular conditions.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Does Oughtred have an alternate sail plan for Eun Mara? My understanding is the headsail on this type was self-tending and set flying.

    Waters are the Connecticut coast, Chesapeake and maybe Maine… so, Sharpies. Lots of variations on the rigs, just trying to decide what’s best for my needs.

    I’m down to a final 4 on designs. Rig particulars can be worked out. I just need to choose one and start setting up. 18’ Chapelle Oyster Skiff, 19’ Ohio Sharpie, Chapelle 24-Foot Sharpie, Parker’s 25’ Maryland Fishing Sharpie. Need to figure out how much more I’d be biting off by building one of the bigger boats.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    I can tell you that balanced jib works quite well... it is self tending, so you really don't have to play with it at all when tacking, unless you want to...
    Getting the "balance" right takes a few tries in my experience, but not a deal breaker for sure....
    new-jib-003.jpg

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGillnet View Post
    Does Oughtred have an alternate sail plan for Eun Mara? My understanding is the headsail on this type was self-tending and set flying.

    Waters are the Connecticut coast, Chesapeake and maybe Maine… so, Sharpies. Lots of variations on the rigs, just trying to decide what’s best for my needs.

    I’m down to a final 4 on designs. Rig particulars can be worked out. I just need to choose one and start setting up. 18’ Chapelle Oyster Skiff, 19’ Ohio Sharpie, Chapelle 24-Foot Sharpie, Parker’s 25’ Maryland Fishing Sharpie. Need to figure out how much more I’d be biting off by building one of the bigger boats.
    Big difference towing a 18'-vs-25' boat. At least you are down to 4 designs in the same family tree. I've probably got 8 very different boats I'd like to build "just because" and an old Dunphy runabout waiting impatiently under a tarp!

    My Eun Mara has her jib on a roller furler, others are hanked to the headstay, either way not self tending.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Towing won’t be an issue. We’re a Suburban family (though it is a 1978…) and we towed an airstream 6,000 all over the west in pretty sketchy conditions on our honeymoon. I’m more work and expense those extra 6’ would be. For an open sharpie, I’m guessing not too much.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    The mutton leg rigs sometimes had a vertical club at the end of the sprit. This was seen in both Connecticut and Chesapeake boats - cat, ketch and sloop.
    EE945E5E-C9B2-45E1-BC7C-D66AEA08FE76.png
    B43CA404-2E4B-485D-9E71-D70E8BC1BB83.jpg

    Ketches occasionally had a main that overlapped the mizzen. Regardless, all info on how they were handled state that the main (foresail) was treated like a jib. Interesting.

    I’m going to draw some variations on the traditional rigs to see what will best suit. Light air ability, reasonable reefing schedule, flexibility, strings for crew, and ability to set up and strike without too much hassle are my goals.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    The racing log canoes use balanced jibs. The sail makers have to understand them as the luff tension issues are different than in a stay supported jib. Mostly there needs to be some hollow cut into the luff. And you need to be able to honk on the down haul. The bowsprits are planks sprung down. They also use clubs, but there is a good reason for dropping them with infrequently sailed boats: having these hit you in the head. The biggest hassle in these leg of mutton sprit rigs is finding a clean way to reef them. The vertical reef is the traditional way. I suspect they were not reefed much. It looks like you can rig a set of conventional reef points and reef them like any loose footed sail. You might need to work out a way of hooking the sprit into the new clew.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Flat-Iron / Sharpie Design Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanGillnet View Post
    Culler’s Sharptown Barge. A bit long and lean, but an interesting sail plan.
    Attachment 96463

    Best Idea Yet!!

    I love this thing. I have the plans and it's on my short list of "Boats To Build Someday"

    I fell in love with it just looking at the photos in Cullers Skiffs and Schooners.
    I think it checks the boxes for everything you asked for.


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