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Thread: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

  1. #211
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Richard Woods does some plausible shapes, and a cat or Tri has the potential for a large are of photovoltaic cells...

    E.g. https://www.sailingcatamarans.com/in...ling-catamaran

    The rig could be omitted.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  2. #212
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I always thought the UK was one of the more conservative places as far as workboat design was concerned but I have been surprised how quickly catamarans, both displacement and planing have become commonplace. For example here is a 'salty' 22 footer aimed at inshore fishing, diving etc. I'm not saying that it is beautiful but it does look purposeful - I think I like the looks of it more than many cats aimed at the leisure market.


  3. #213
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    That’s what I found when I started sketching ideas. It’s not hard to design a good looking catamaran hull but getting the accommodations and cabin to work is more difficult, at least at the sizes we are talking about here.
    Any multi, really. I think.

    Well, any boat, really. A 20’ boat is hard to cram stuff into and still make svelte looking. The benefit of a mono in this case is the ability to use the cockpit as living space, and an area to stand up and dance, or whatever, without adding excessive superstructure, or making the entire rig too tall.

    Now, maybe a proa/drua???

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Richard Woods does some plausible shapes, and a cat or Tri has the potential for a large are of photovoltaic cells...

    E.g. https://www.sailingcatamarans.com/in...ling-catamaran

    The rig could be omitted.
    I realize this thread has gotten pretty long, but if we look back to post 9 this was discussed. Richard Woods was not very encouraging regarding solar and electric. I think he is more of a fast sailor, and even his power cats are quick semi-displacement speed boats.

    For monohulls the crew is in the boat, standing somewhere near the waterline. For a bridge deck catamaran, the crew is up 2 to 3 feet. Add a solar roof at above head height and the boat gets quite tall. Fixed hull trailable designs like the Skoota 18 are limited to about 8 foot total beam, and if we go wider the whole thing gets much more complicated with folding or detachable or sliding hulls. This is the Skoota 20 loading onto its special trailer:



    For my estimated power requirements a monohull at 22' by 6-7' has enough area for a solar roof around a kW. There are several choices now with nice salty looks.

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I always thought the UK was one of the more conservative places as far as workboat design was concerned but I have been surprised how quickly catamarans, both displacement and planing have become commonplace. For example here is a 'salty' 22 footer aimed at inshore fishing, diving etc. I'm not saying that it is beautiful but it does look purposeful - I think I like the looks of it more than many cats aimed at the leisure market.

    OK that is cute!

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    They launch this off the beach at Cromer and with a rigid canopy covering say half of the cockpit,it might fit the bill.

    ally crab boat.jpg

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I wonder if this, scaled up (well, pretty much double in size), with a cute wheelhouse/cuddy could look decent? I am having weird thoughts of cuddy/cabin structure where solar panels form the roof and the walls? The walls could hinge up when underway to form a large horizontal array? Could form an interesting light but shaded and private ambience inside if they were partially transparent panels such as the one below?


  8. #218
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Rick, you might consider looking around for an inexpensive trashed Dovekie (not mine, thank you) and removing the deck with a sawzall. You'd end up with a nice light easily driven hull to work with.

  9. #219
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I bet that if I said I wanted a catamaran you guys would post only monohulls .

    The Dovekie hull would probably work Tom, I'm thinking more of a wooden boat and something to build to keep me busy. It would be useful to put the EP carry on yours sometime and get an electric speed-power plot for that hull.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    This, I think, is the right way to support the flex solar panels. Support at the edges, the cells open for cooling as they only convert ~20% of the solar energy to electricity and the rest is heat.

  11. #221
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    This, I think, is the right way to support the flex solar panels. Support at the edges, the cells open for cooling as they only convert ~20% of the solar energy to electricity and the rest is heat.
    Yes, I have read in a few places that the flexible panels really suffer with heat when stuck to surfaces (apart from maybe the 'CIGS' panels which seem more resistant to it).

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I've got this narrowed down to 3 options for now, with some feedback from the designers.

    Option 1 - Redwing 18 (21)

    Karl Stambaugh was very encouraging. He already offers solar plans for the boat, but says they are pretty basic and my plan should work well. There is a Redwing 21 model, but it is a foot wider and 600 lb heavier than the 18. Karl recommends stretching the 18 out to 21 feet instead, and says that many have been built that way already. He says transom mounting of a light electric should be fine and open up the cockpit, care should be taken to balance trim to keep the transom up for the very low speed. Solar panel mounting on the roof did not raise an issue, many Redwing 18 are built with some kind of roof. I have purchased and already received the plans.




    Option 2 - Handy Billy 21

    Harry Bryan was also encouraging. He says the removable cabin top he worked up with Maynard Bray is not in the plans, but something similar including forward berth would be fine if weight was kept down. He was also OK with transom mount of a light motor and advised watching the trim. Southport Island Marine makes fiberglass versions of the Handy Billy, including one called the Southport 21 which has transom mounted gas motor, so that has been done. Harry was a little concerned about weight up on the solar roof, but again said to watch the weight. Plans are ordered but not yet arrived.



    Southport 21:




    Option 3 - Gartside ???


    I contacted Paul Gartside, explaining the brief and asking if he would recommend either his design #119 "Wayward" or #234 Shanty Boat. Paul replied that he was "intrigued", and would like to take a look at this! He says he is busy until mid-November, but to reach out to him again after he has spent some time thinking about it. This is very exciting, I could only dream of a new Gartside design for solar electric. He asked for additional info on the solar area to get the scale of the boat. Keep an eye on this space, I will post again if this comes to fruition.

    Another shot of Wayward:


  13. #223
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I don't know why but I really like the whipstaff steering on Wayward.

    I suspect that a lightweight electric outboard mounted on a more conventional, narrower, transom would be a much simpler and less draggy solution. After all, you don't need to box it in to reduce noise and most of them are submersible so you don't need to protect it from swamping.

  14. #224
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I don't know why but I really like the whipstaff steering on Wayward.

    I suspect that a lightweight electric outboard mounted on a more conventional, narrower, transom would be a much simpler and less draggy solution. After all, you don't need to box it in to reduce noise and most of them are submersible so you don't need to protect it from swamping.
    I like the whipstaff also, simple and functional. I almost used one on the Walkabout but it would not fit in the tent. The destroyer wheel gets mixed reviews....

    What do you think of putting the electric outboard on a retractable motor mount? It would permit raising the motor to clear weeds in easy reach, and be a safe way to stow it at a dock. Most are ugly, maybe I could make one from wood at this low power.

  15. #225
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    You are particularly good at mounting stuff so I suspect you will come up with a more elegant solution to what I am about to suggest...

    Electric outboards won't mind if they are upside down so I could imagine the motor mounted to a pivoting vertical plank standing up against the inboard face of the transom and hinged at the bottom. You could tilt the motor then swing it inboard by lowering the plank to the horizontal inside the boat so the motor is inverted with the powerhead on the floor (and well inboard) with the prop sticking up in the air for easy cleaning.

    Would be easier with a sketch...

  16. #226
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Any of these boats would be superb. But the Redwing stands out for me. Not the best looking boat in this company, but I love its simplicity. And it doesn’t hurt that the one in the photo is painted identically to how I painted Petrel.
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  17. #227
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    For designs this size that must restrict beam ,I think the raised deck of the Wayward shown makes the most sense .it's important to fully use the beam you've got to best advantage in the cabin . The crew can lean back against the hull with out a deck structure hitting them in the back of the neck .
    Last edited by Bill Perkins; 10-15-2021 at 08:18 AM.

  18. #228
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Any of these boats would be superb. But the Redwing stands out for me. Not the best looking boat in this company, but I love its simplicity. And it doesn’t hurt that the one in the photo is painted identically to how I painted Petrel.
    Redwing would be my choice as well. If I wanted a slow cruising powerboat, this would be the one. I kind of do want one. But for now, I have a lot more sail-and-oaring to be done.

    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

  19. #229
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I'll cast my vote for a stretched Redwing too.

  20. #230
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Hmm, a little surprised at all the love for the humble Redwing. I like it too, especially one done well and in a pretty backdrop . It would be the easiest to build, I think, and certainly a well proven design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    For designs this size that must restrict beam ,I think the raised deck of the Wayward shown makes the most sense .it's important to fully use the beam you've got to best advantage in the cabin . The crew can lean back against the hull with out a deck structure hitting them in the back of the neck .
    The Redwing has the smallest cabin, and not well set up for seating. I like the raised deck cruisers, a roomy cabin as Bill says plus the roof for solar is already part of the design. Melissa really likes that simple look, with portlights along the top. So, back again to Wylie Blanchet's Caprice. Here's another Elco 26, a bit big but this idea:



    I will ask Gartside what he thinks of this, on a full displacement hull.

  21. #231
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet



    I keep thinking about Whio, but at 29' long she probably wouldn't scale down very well.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
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  22. #232
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Here's William Hand's take on a tabloid cruiser .



    Was this boat ever built ( a good article in our host magazine)? 25ft 1 inch LOA ; 7ft Beam. These are from my paper files .


  23. #233
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    Here's William Hand's take on a tabloid cruiser .



    Was this boat ever built ( a good article in our host magazine)? 25ft 1 inch LOA ; 7ft Beam. These are from my paper files .

    Thanks. Zenith is another nice one, but bigger, heavier and inboard again.

    Tautog apparently was built, found this sale listing: https://www.shoppok.com/keys/a,29,12...ickory-nc-.htm



    Still for sale? https://www.popyachts.com/pilothouse...arolina-198391
    Last edited by rgthom; 10-15-2021 at 02:27 PM. Reason: added listing

  24. #234
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I just showed the Hand as the raised deck was there at the start .Would you be tempted if Tautog was for sale ?

  25. #235
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Perkins View Post
    I just showed the Hand as the raised deck was there at the start .Would you be tempted if Tautog was for sale ?
    Near me at a good price it might be worth using as the base, but if the spec is correct at 1800 lb hull weight it is probably too big and too heavy for a small electric.

  26. #236
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Comparing Tautog to Wayward Sun at the waterline, Tautog looks to have more transom immersed.

    Wayward Sun:




    Tautog:


  27. #237
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    One thing about buying used ;you'd save enough money to add more power and panels if necessary .

  28. #238
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    E80854C3-9B81-41CF-9A1F-04EC691634DA.jpg
    While goofing about, I dreamed up the solution! A shunting, centerwheeler drua! Lots of room for solar, and an electric motor will reverse as well as forward, won’t it?

  29. #239
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    I thought from the beginning that Wayward Sun was the ticket.....
    Wouldn't a smaller version be just about right?

  30. #240
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet


  31. #241
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    https://www.dhylanboats.com/auk-pc23-electric/

    amazing speed with electric 10. Too bad his video was shot from skiff with noisy outboard

  32. #242
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    This thread prompted me to look at some of the various solar boat contests to see what the state of the art is.It looks like fun and just about blameless boating.







    Not exactly displacement and quite narrowly focused,but a demonstration that the adage of "racing improves the breed" holds true,since the pressure of competition speeds up the rate of development.The knowledge gained can be put to other uses.

  33. #243
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    E80854C3-9B81-41CF-9A1F-04EC691634DA.jpg
    While goofing about, I dreamed up the solution! A shunting, centerwheeler drua! Lots of room for solar, and an electric motor will reverse as well as forward, won’t it?
    I like it! Especially that this is your take on something in-between a Walkabout and Wayward Sun. No one accuses Rob of thinking inside the box...

  34. #244
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Quote Originally Posted by timo4352 View Post
    I thought from the beginning that Wayward Sun was the ticket.....
    Wouldn't a smaller version be just about right?
    Yes Tim, I agree. A smaller Wayward Sun would do it. But what design is that? I don't think I can just shrink that boat. Plus, it is not in Devlin's design catalog. The Solar Sal guys are trying to make a business on solar boats, the design is probably proprietary.

  35. #245
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    Default Re: Displacement designs for solar electric river cruiser, 20 - 25 feet

    Wahoo, that one is interesting. My wife stuck out her tongue at it, so I guess that is not going to be one for us, but thanks for posting.

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