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Thread: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

  1. #71
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the offending shooter
    If he hasn't the money? My system, he'd pay every time he buys bullets, as would all who buy bullets.

    The shooter is apt to be in prison. More costly bullets seem like a good idea to me.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by offbelayknife View Post
    Wouldn't excessive taxation on ammunition primarily impact the poor?
    Likely. So? Who should pay for funerals/medical expenses for gunshot victims? The shooter won't have the money, and is likely, if caught, in jail.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    i think gun owners should be insured
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    hasn't worked for cigarettes. Don't hold yer breath.

    and Karen ain't 'a he', last I heard.
    It would be nice, though, would it not, if this tax paid for funerals/medical bills of gunshot victims?

    If it cuts down on the number of gunshot victims, that would be a bonus. We are required to have insurance on our cars in case we run into someone. I'm just looking for insurance for people who get shot. By taxing bullets, every gun owner would be insured.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by offbelayknife View Post
    Wouldn't excessive taxation on ammunition primarily impact the poor?
    Who does most of the shooting?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Who does most of the shooting?
    The suicidal and the government.

    I think it's always worth highlighting instances where an approach to an issue disproportionately impacts the poor. If I had to hazard a guess, most shootings happen using overpriced, off the shelf ammo already. Probably from owners who will only ever buy a couple boxes in their lifetime.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by offbelayknife View Post
    The suicidal and the government.
    let's give domestic violence it's due, almost always the disgruntled husband or boyfriend
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Don't be silly, Hughie. Like Joe, I never carry. Unlike Joe, I'm pretty mild-mannered.
    OH and Karen while I. got your attention

    Question for kgr1 - 'Abandoning Social and Cultural Norms'?
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i think gun owners should be insured
    Agreed, but how many drive without required insurance?

    A tax on bullets would be insurance. My point is to establish a fund, fed by this tax, to pay for funerals/medical expenses of gunshot victims. This may or may not cut down on the number of people who get shot, but it would help the victims or their families financially.

    This is a bit like having liability car insurance included as part of the gas tax, so that anyone who drives a car that runs on gas or diesel has liability insurance. If we could have all cars insured by passing a law, we could end all murders by passing a law. Problem is people break the law.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    let's give domestic violence it's due, almost always the disgruntled husband or boyfriend

    Yup, or someone engaged in another form of criminal behavior.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Not exactly. But then, you failed to reproduce my post in context.

    Context ?

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    I don't think making ammo exorbitantly expensive would cut crime, and might make things worse. How much ammo do you think is usually used during the commission of an armed crime? My guess is... not much, and often zero. I don't think the price of ammo figures heavily into decisions regarding criminal gun use. On the other hand, I suspect the black market in untaxed, undertaxed, and stolen ammo would grow like wildfire.
    Additionally, it seems that most proponents of tighter gun restrictions are advocates of higher levels of training and practice, practice, practice. Target shooting is already expensive. I hate to think of what it would cost if the price of ammo is artificially jacked through the roof. I'm thinking target shooting would fade away and the overall level of competence would decrease, perhaps leading to an increase in accidental shootings.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Bartlett View Post
    I don't think making ammo exorbitantly expensive would cut crime, and might make things worse. How much ammo do you think is usually used during the commission of an armed crime? My guess is... not much, and often zero. I don't think the price of ammo figures heavily into decisions regarding criminal gun use. On the other hand, I suspect the black market in untaxed, undertaxed, and stolen ammo would grow like wildfire.
    Additionally, it seems that most proponents of tighter gun restrictions are advocates of higher levels of training and practice, practice, practice. Target shooting is already expensive. I hate to think of what it would cost if the price of ammo is artificially jacked through the roof. I'm thinking target shooting would fade away and the overall level of competence would decrease, perhaps leading to an increase in accidental shootings.
    If people are getting a gun for killing people (in defense of course) then they should go through the kind of training that simulates those scenarios not just shooting at targets. They should be jumped, hit, thrown to the ground. etc. Then maybe a few trips with paramedics to see how the messes are cleaned up. If they can’t handle the training they most likely won’t handle the real scenarios.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Don't be silly, Hughie. Like Joe, I never carry. Unlike Joe, I'm pretty mild-mannered.
    OH and Karen while I. got your attention

    Question for kgr1 - 'Abandoning Social and Cultural Norms'?

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    man keggerone is deep under your skin!
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    man keggerone is deep under your skin!
    keggerone? You’ve had rotgut knockoff Italian big reds too?

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    man keggerone is deep under your skin!
    Nope I'm into remembrance I remember Karen Gresham
    She post and I'll remember to remind her
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Already posed and replied to. Do try to be more attentive.
    What, you only accept one response per post?
    Anyway, the other posts were lacking my charm, wit and penetrating sarcasm
    Structures uninformed by geometry tend towards the ramshackle.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by offbelayknife View Post
    The suicidal and the government.

    I think it's always worth highlighting instances where an approach to an issue disproportionately impacts the poor. If I had to hazard a guess, most shootings happen using overpriced, off the shelf ammo already. Probably from owners who will only ever buy a couple boxes in their lifetime.
    They are not forced to own a gun and buy ammunition. If you can't afford it, don't do it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Bartlett View Post
    I don't think making ammo exorbitantly expensive would cut crime, and might make things worse. How much ammo do you think is usually used during the commission of an armed crime? My guess is... not much, and often zero. I don't think the price of ammo figures heavily into decisions regarding criminal gun use. On the other hand, I suspect the black market in untaxed, undertaxed, and stolen ammo would grow like wildfire.
    Additionally, it seems that most proponents of tighter gun restrictions are advocates of higher levels of training and practice, practice, practice. Target shooting is already expensive. I hate to think of what it would cost if the price of ammo is artificially jacked through the roof. I'm thinking target shooting would fade away and the overall level of competence would decrease, perhaps leading to an increase in accidental shootings.
    Another red herring, like these moms spent any time in “training”. If they do train it just proves gun training is a joke.

    I thought more guns were supposed to make us safer?

    tax away I say.
    Last edited by CK 17; 09-17-2021 at 08:34 AM.
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    If people are getting a gun for killing people (in defense of course) then they should go through the kind of training that simulates those scenarios not just shooting at targets. They should be jumped, hit, thrown to the ground. etc. Then maybe a few trips with paramedics to see how the messes are cleaned up. If they can’t handle the training they most likely won’t handle the real scenarios.
    You cannot make any of this happen. I'm looking from a different angle. Families who lose a member because someone shot that member, and he dies, out to get help with funeral expenses. If the person shot goes to the hospital, medical bills should be paid.

    I don't know how you do that other than taxing guns and ammo. And I can't guarantee that would work, but I'm open to other ways to fund funerals and medical expenses of gun shot victims.

    We can't add a sales tax to guns already bought. If we sold no more guns, the level of gun violence wouldn't go down.

    Let's see if we can discuss simply paying for funerals and/or medical expenses.

    Gun insurance has been offered, but like car insurance, where car function with or without insurance, guns will work with or without insurance.

    Any Positive ideas/suggestions
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post

    Any Positive ideas/suggestions
    We, as a culture, could shift the default association around guns. Instead of pretending that guns=strength we could acknowledge the reality that reliance upon a firearm reveals the weakness of the user.
    What color are their hands now?

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    We, as a culture, could shift the default association around guns. Instead of pretending that guns=strength we could acknowledge the reality that reliance upon a firearm reveals the weakness of the user.
    Good one! Everyone knows having a gun makes you a tough guy.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by isla View Post
    What, you only accept one response per post?
    Anyway, the other posts were lacking my charm, wit and penetrating sarcasm
    She’s a drive by poster, no time to reload

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    We, as a culture, could shift the default association around guns. Instead of pretending that guns=strength we could acknowledge the reality that reliance upon a firearm reveals the weakness of the user.
    completely at odds with american founding myths beginning with taking this raw unimproved land from the savages from the completely christian motives of european colonialism

    thence, throwing off the yoke of a tyranical english monarchy and establishing a democracy in the name of free men

    on to the chivalrous cowboy on white charger with white hat carry colts and winchester's finest, fullfilling our manifest destiny by divine right

    to through to today, 'god created man; samuel colt made them equal'
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    completely at odds with american founding myths beginning with taking this raw unimproved land from the savages from the completely christian motives of european colonialism

    thence, throwing off the yoke of a tyranical english monarchy and establishing a democracy in the name of free men

    on to the chivalrous cowboy on white charger with white hat carry colts and winchester's finest, fullfilling our manifest destiny by divine right

    to through to today, 'god created man; samuel colt made them equal'
    Appropriate phrase that
    Structures uninformed by geometry tend towards the ramshackle.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    completely at odds with american founding myths beginning with taking this raw unimproved land from the savages from the completely christian motives of european colonialism

    thence, throwing off the yoke of a tyranical english monarchy and establishing a democracy in the name of free men

    on to the chivalrous cowboy on white charger with white hat carry colts and winchester's finest, fullfilling our manifest destiny by divine right

    to through to today, 'god created man; samuel colt made them equal'
    And for a nation that’s Lockheed and Raytheon. You can’t have too many missiles. For defense of course. Those are defensive warheads, just like the 9mm, it’s for defense.

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Only if you use a conventional rotary sprinkler attached to a hose - Heaven forbid anyone glimpses you with a 'pistol grip anything' in your hand after dark ! ! !
    Pop-up sprinklers are so much better. They deliver far more water, and have the element of surprise. And yes, I have used them in anger heh heh heh .

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    Pop-up sprinklers are so much better. They deliver far more water, and have the element of surprise. And yes, I have used them in anger heh heh heh .

    Pete
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  30. #100
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Neighbor's dog using your front yard as a bathroom as the neighbor stands there holding the leash, intentionally oblivious, and then walks away leaving you with a WC attendant's job?
    My mom, who lived in a small apartment at the time, waited until the neighbor came by with her dog, opened the slider, walked out using her walker & handed the neighbor a dozen poop bags saying "I see you ran out" loud enough for a # of people to hear & then went back inside. Never had that problem again...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    My mom, who lived in a small apartment at the time, waited until the neighbor came by with her dog, opened the slider, walked out using her walker & handed the neighbor a dozen poop bags saying "I see you ran out" loud enough for a # of people to hear & then went back inside. Never had that problem again...
    Good on your mom!

    Don't mess with the moms, they are and always have been a force of nature unto themselves. My mom turns 86 in November, most think she hasn't even hit her mid-seventies yet given her energy level and the sharpness of her mind. Love that lady.
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  32. #102
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    If people are getting a gun for killing people (in defense of course) then they should go through the kind of training that simulates those scenarios not just shooting at targets. They should be jumped, hit, thrown to the ground. etc. Then maybe a few trips with paramedics to see how the messes are cleaned up. If they can’t handle the training they most likely won’t handle the real scenarios.
    You may have a point, it could be debated, but I don't know why you quoted my post into yours. Any gun training will involve actually shooting a gun, and making ammo unaffordable will only make that training less likely.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    So kgr1…was it a good thing that two moms brandished weapons over someone being cut off in a school drop off line?

    Yes or no.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    Another red herring, like these moms spent any time in “training”. If they do train it just proves gun training is a joke.

    I thought more guns were supposed to make us safer?

    tax away I say.
    OK, so let's say the moms don't train. If that's the case, then how will raising the price of ammo help the situation? Do you really think an ammo tax will prevent a woman from loading six or eight rounds into the magazine of her .380 and stuffing it into her purse? The only people who would be seriously affected by a big ammo tax would be guys like skeet and trap shooters, duck hunters, second chance shooters, etc.
    In other words, the legitimate and mostly harmless gun users. Meanwhile, the bad actors would not even notice the increase because they hardly use any ammo at all.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: 2 moms pull out guns during argument at Hazelwood elementary school

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    You cannot make any of this happen. I'm looking from a different angle. Families who lose a member because someone shot that member, and he dies, out to get help with funeral expenses. If the person shot goes to the hospital, medical bills should be paid.

    I don't know how you do that other than taxing guns and ammo. And I can't guarantee that would work, but I'm open to other ways to fund funerals and medical expenses of gun shot victims.

    We can't add a sales tax to guns already bought. If we sold no more guns, the level of gun violence wouldn't go down.

    Let's see if we can discuss simply paying for funerals and/or medical expenses.

    Gun insurance has been offered, but like car insurance, where car function with or without insurance, guns will work with or without insurance.

    Any Positive ideas/suggestions

    If you want to compensate victims of gunshot and can't get the money from the shooter, then the money should come from the general fund. Gun violence is a societal problem. It is not the fault of the skeet shooters any more than it is the fault of the sailboaters. Make the guilty pay, or let everyone pay. Or maybe we could make the jetskiers pay. They're not very popular around here either.

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