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Thread: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

  1. #1
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    Default French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Australian deal with US and UK. The 90 billion contract with France dumped

    No official ink yet, it hasn't been "officially" announced.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...ines/100465628

    Will the ALP support it? That will be important to the project's continuation

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    What happened to no one trusting the USA again after Afghanistan?

    Almost like there’s bigger things on the move.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Our PM is a Trumpist…………. and a fundamentalist. Not sure about Christian though………..

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Here we go. Cold War 2.

    I think we will win, again, but it will take a while. And a lot of money.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Here we go. Cold War 2.

    I think we will win, again, but it will take a while. And a lot of money.
    You say that like it's new. When the USA refused to help Russia after the collapse and Putin rose to power, it became a forgone conclusion. Add to that China and the Cold War never ended; it just took a breath and was back on.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    You say that like it's new. When the USA refused to help Russia after the collapse and Putin rose to power, it became a forgone conclusion. Add to that China and the Cold War never ended; it just took a breath and was back on.
    Not new. Just Round 2.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    You say that like it's new. When the USA refused to help Russia after the collapse and Putin rose to power, it became a forgone conclusion. Add to that China and the Cold War never ended; it just took a breath and was back on.
    Russia ain’t the us fault, and China did it’s own thing.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Russia ain’t the us fault, and China did it’s own thing.
    That’s how I see it.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    The USA, the UK, and Austrailia are natural aiilies! Aukus, I am with you!

    Don't give up on the USA, we have and are having a rough patch but at our heart we are a good people. There is a current struggle but right will win!
    Skip

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Don't give up on the USA, we have and are having a rough patch but at our heart we are a good people.
    plus we need the money from weapons sales
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    plus we need the money from weapons sales
    Such an exRebulican awwww! We love converts!
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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Our PM is a Trumpist…………. and a fundamentalist. Not sure about Christian though………..
    Cult member will do .....it`s all the same.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    will scrap $90b program to build French-designed subs
    is this gonna be another 'pity about the spitfires' moments?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Well we are, suppoosedly going to build our own………..at present…….. But I reckon, prividing this flies, they'll be modular pieces built in different countries. US will build the reactors, the UK the engines, Aus will build the heads.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    This is Australias' way of thanking the US and the UK for pledging support in future conflicts. Letting China know that we don't stand alone down here. If it does hit the fan I just hope that you guys don't wait two years to step in- there won't be any of us left to save JayInOz

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    It was fun to watch lying Boris play the statesman by stating that the UK will help Australia acquire nuclear subs.
    Impeccable arrogant.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchpp View Post
    It was fun to watch lying Boris play the statesman by stating that the UK will help Australia acquire nuclear subs.
    Impeccable arrogant.
    A bit of an odd post. I have no time for Boris the Buffoon, but the statement that we will collaborate with the design of the new Aus boats is not a lie.
    Barrow and my ex employer is a centre of excellence for the design and build of submarines, and our Astute class is faster and cheaper than the US equivalent.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    I hink this piece of what is essentially electoral theatre puts us back in the position of 'deputy sheriff' again, except that the deputy will be unarmed for at least 20 years.
    It was an imperial decision, essentially by one man without any discussions, and removes any alternatives from the board with one swoop.
    I expect more Chinese commercial retaliation, and an incrase in their military activities off our shores.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I hink this piece of what is essentially electoral theatre puts us back in the position of 'deputy sheriff' again, except that the deputy will be unarmed for at least 20 years.
    Well, the French design will not have entered service tomorrow either. So we must assume that the Collins class can be kept in service with a life extension programmes until the new class is ready.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    This French sub appears to have been purchased. Well worth the value of 3 euros.

    C5CE8EFB-50BE-4A7E-AC7B-E57863C61F52.jpg

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    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-16-2021 at 04:35 AM.
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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    NPR story on this:

    https://www.vpr.org/npr-news/2021-09...with-australia

    Seems France is not happy.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    I can imagine so, and several hundred tradies, apprentices and other staff that had good ongoing jobs with Naval Group now have not. Of course it was a a bastardised design, essentially a French nuke sub rejiged to be a very big diesel one, not a good idea from the start and the product of poitical rivalry on the right, and financially open ended. But now there are no jobs, less subs, out another 10 years at least, and no design, contracts, or even concepts yet. But very handy theatrically politically for a PM under a lot of pressure over a botched vaccine rollout……….maybe.
    Watch the space for much more BS from all concerned. The only winner I can see is Joe. and we are now confirmed as the US's aircraft carrier, troop staging point, R&R stopover and listening post (Pine Gap) re China.
    And all on the decision of one very dodgy self-iterested man with no discussion or parliamentary scrutiny.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    This a major step in Australia's continuing integration into the armed force of the USA. The submarines will be pretty much at the disposal of the USA.

    Some years ago there was an interview of some RAN submariners who were oh so proud of the way they were assigned from time to time, to carry out stealthy scouting in the territorial waters of other countries, on behalf of the USA. This is done so the USA can put their hand on their heart in international fora and say "we didn't do it." I was amazed that the RAN would be allowed to publically admit that they did this sort of thing.

    Consider the Chinese saying that it can be a strategy to "Kill a chicken to frighten a monkey". They might choose to send a message to the USA by attacking an Australian ship, in certain circumstances.
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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Macron is ticked off, says France not consulted.

    Australia shares zero values with Xi's China. Why shouldn't they want to be in our orbit?
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post

    Australia shares zero values with Xi's China.
    seriously?

    china accounts for 36% of all of australia's exports. . .

    without china australia would have net negative trade balance internationally, instead it has a remarkable positive trade balance, accounting for more than 45% of it's total economy

    it's a wonder they aren't buying chinese subs
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    A bit of an odd post. I have no time for Boris the Buffoon, but the statement that we will collaborate with the design of the new Aus boats is not a lie.
    Barrow and my ex employer is a centre of excellence for the design and build of submarines, and our Astute class is faster and cheaper than the US equivalent.
    I watched it by coincidence Nick ( a short newsflash on Dutch TV), I suggest you take a look as well. I'm not criticizing the quality of the UK submarine design and manufacturing but just the paternalistic tone your PM has, the empire is back!

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    and our Astute class is faster and cheaper than the US equivalent.
    what is the u.s. equivalent of the astute class?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    what is the u.s. equivalent of the astute class?
    The comparison was with the Virginia class. https://www.naval-technology.com/fea...est-submarine/
    Your lot must have improved your sonar on the Virginia, we used to beat you on that as well
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    The comparison was with the Virginia class. https://www.naval-technology.com/fea...est-submarine/
    Your lot must have improved your sonar on the Virginia, we used to beat you on that as well
    what do we really know? What might have been leaked to the Chinese? There is a bigger story behind the headlines that will be buried for decades. As to the sub performance - it is only speculation on capabilities. I am just glad I talked my son out of sub service. Ice cream, loneliness and broken hearts to most who serve and their families that support them.
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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    As to the sub performance - it is only speculation on capabilities. I am just glad I talked my son out of sub service. Ice cream, loneliness and broken hearts to most who serve and their families that support them.
    We run joint exercises with your navy. The relative performance of the participating boats was discussed within the industry.
    Basic statistics like size LBD and displacement, compliment and weapons fit are in the public domain. Absolute speed is classified, but. . . .
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    According to our Defence and Foreign Affairs ministers wea are going to host** long range missiles and undersea drone torpedoes along with the subs, and become a US/Brit base for more troops, planes and ordinance storage. Reducing Australias soverign actions capability and making us a prime target for China and the likely target for a first strike just short of attacking the US/European mainlandand declaring WW3.
    And does anyone for one minute imagine Australia will be allowed actual independent controll over these 'assetts'?

    ** US missiles so it seems.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 09-16-2021 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    We run joint exercises with your navy. The relative performance of the participating boats was discussed within the industry.
    Basic statistics like size LBD and displacement, compliment and weapons fit are in the public domain. Absolute speed is classified, but. . . .
    I was talking to a sub mariner in Tasmania earlier this year who told me that our present crop of subs while having displayed operational problems earlier in their deployment regularly have given a nasty surprise to US navy ships during joint naval exercises.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    I was talking to a sub mariner in Tasmania earlier this year who told me that our present crop of subs while having displayed operational problems earlier in their deployment regularly have given a nasty surprise to US navy ships during joint naval exercises.
    In fairness, it seems that today's US Navy is still figuring out that someone needs to be on watch - but I also have no trouble believing a skilled sub crew can really mess with a surface ship.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    I was talking to a sub mariner in Tasmania earlier this year who told me that our present crop of subs while having displayed operational problems earlier in their deployment regularly have given a nasty surprise to US navy ships during joint naval exercises.

    There's a Case for Diesels | Proceedings - June 2018 144/6/1,384
    A diesel sub can be as quiet as any boat when running on batteries, certainly quieter than the older nukes from the 70/80s, but they don't have the submerged range. Nor do they have the electrical power to make drinking water, nor keep the atmosphere sweet for as long as a nuke.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: French subs out, nuke subs in………….

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    According to our Defence and Foreign Affairs ministers wea are going to host** long range missiles and undersea drone torpedoes along with the subs, and become a US/Brit base for more troops, planes and ordinance storage. Reducing Australias soverign actions capability and making us a prime target for China and the likely target for a first strike just short of attacking the US/European mainlandand declaring WW3.
    And does anyone for one minute imagine Australia will be allowed actual independent controll over these 'assetts'?

    ** US missiles so it seems.

    I agree.
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