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Thread: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    All of those people get treated because there would be ICU beds available just as there was pre-pandemic.
    Just like anti-vaxxers, those people chose to engage in behavior which risked their personal health, and in so doing risked taxing our medical resources. Does it matter if the ICU bed is taken becuase of an anti-vaxxer or a big wave surfer? It is still a bed taken by a person who lived "willfully riskier" than someone who went bowling and got the shot.


    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just like anti-vaxxers, those people chose to engage in behavior which risked their personal health, and in so doing risked taxing our medical resources. Does it matter if the ICU bed is taken becuase of an anti-vaxxer or a big wave surfer? It is still a bed taken by a person who lived "willfully riskier" than someone who went bowling and got the shot.


    Kevin
    What about the guy walking on the sidewalk who gets hit by the drunk driver? Or the careful, healthy person who has a heart attack? I could go on...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just like anti-vaxxers, those people chose to engage in behavior which risked their personal health, and in so doing risked taxing our medical resources. Does it matter if the ICU bed is taken becuase of an anti-vaxxer or a big wave surfer? It is still a bed taken by a person who lived "willfully riskier" than someone who went bowling and got the shot.


    Kevin
    And Laird Hamilton is not likely to put the people who are taking care of him at risk of dying as well. In other words he's not bringing that 60 foot wave with him to the hospital. Nicky No Vaccine on the other hand. . .
    "Unrepentant Reprobate"
    Lew Barrett



  4. #74
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    If a right wing anti-vaccine jerk dies, Donne’s bell does not toll for me. My thoughts are with the medical staff who have to waste their time tending the jerk, when they could have been doing something worthwhile.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    What about the guy walking on the sidewalk who gets hit by the drunk driver? Or the careful, healthy person who has a heart attack? I could go on...
    I already covered the parent who happened to suffer a heart attack denied an ICU bed to no avail. Seems some people will work tirelessly to make a point.

    Kind of reminds me of the cartoon showing a guy pruning tree limbs as he sits on the outward end of the limb as he cuts the limb between himself and the trunk of the tree. Gets the job done sure, but not all that efficiently.
    "Unrepentant Reprobate"
    Lew Barrett



  6. #76
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just like anti-vaxxers, those people chose to engage in behavior which risked their personal health, and in so doing risked taxing our medical resources. Does it matter if the ICU bed is taken because of an anti-vaxxer or a big wave surfer? It is still a bed taken by a person who lived "willfully riskier" than someone who went bowling and got the shot.
    The difference is that we're in the middle of an pandemic, and medical demand is much higher than it usually is. There are enough hospital beds under normal circumstances for those who do dumb things and hurt themselves. Not now.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Yes, most including myself believe that self preservation is not only ethical but a fundamental right at its most basic level.

    Little Jimmy is probably not vaccinated depending on his age, so are you going to check his parents vaccination status? and for what purpose?

    So like me You believe the spreading of the big lie is not ethical, but is believing it also unethical? I just can not go there.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just like anti-vaxxers, those people chose to engage in behavior which risked their personal health, and in so doing risked taxing our medical resources. Does it matter if the ICU bed is taken becuase of an anti-vaxxer or a big wave surfer? It is still a bed taken by a person who lived "willfully riskier" than someone who went bowling and got the shot.


    Kevin
    does using a table saw without a blade guard and having an accident count as a dumb thing? Asking for a forum.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Principle or no, decisions will have to be made, and will. Are there legal protections in place for those having to make them?
    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    Yes, most including myself believe that self preservation is not only ethical but a fundamental right at its most basic level.

    Little Jimmy is probably not vaccinated depending on his age, so are you going to check his parents vaccination status? and for what purpose?

    So like me You believe the spreading of the big lie is not ethical, but is believing it also unethical? I just can not go there.
    It's not as though Little Jimmy had anything better going on.
    Last edited by oznabrag; 09-16-2021 at 05:46 PM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    Yes, most including myself believe that self preservation is not only ethical but a fundamental right at its most basic level.

    Little Jimmy is probably not vaccinated depending on his age, so are you going to check his parents vaccination status? and for what purpose?

    So like me You believe the spreading of the big lie is not ethical, but is believing it also unethical? I just can not go there.
    So, the dying are stacked 350 deep outside the ICU, and Rush Limp Bough has a dreadful wreck. . .

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Speaking of Idaho..

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...gop-ryan-cole/

    A doctor called coronavirus vaccines ‘fake.’ Now he sits on an Idaho regional health board

    Leaders of Idaho’s most populous county were deluged with constituent emails last month as they prepared to choose the newest member of a once-obscure regional health board. A doctor who served on the board for 15 years had just been let go over his support for pandemic restrictions.
    Hundreds wrote in for Ryan Cole, a doctor — backed by the Ada County Republican Party — who has called coronavirus vaccines “fake.”
    The Republican commissioners of the county — which encompasses the state capital, Boise — said they welcomed Cole’s “outsider” perspective and willingness to “question” established medical guidance. They appointed him over the protests of their lone Democratic colleague.
    .
    .
    Idaho is one of many states where GOP lawmakers have responded to early-pandemic restrictions with moves to limit public health powers, arguing that the measures paved the way for alarming incursions on people’s rights. A state law passed this March gave county leaders veto power over some orders from health boards — like the mask mandate that drew fury and demonstrations in Ada County last year..

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Principle or no, decisions will have to be made, and will. Are there legal protections in place for those having to make them?
    The state moving to critical care standards (or whatever they decide to call them) gives the doctors cover.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Legal cover, but I hope hospitals are also considering the physical safety of their staff on and off duty at this point.

  15. #85
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    Default Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Tennessee institutes triage differently.

    We won't mention that these monoclonal antibodies are every bit as experimental as the vaccines. And hugely expensive (north of $100,000?)

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tenn...eatment-2021-9

    Tennessee says vaccinated people should be last in line for antibody treatments to save them for the unvaccinated

    Unvaccinated people in Tennessee now have priority access to one of the few COVID-19 drugs shown to reduce hospitalization and death: monoclonal antibody treatment.

    The state's government recommended this week that most vaccinated residents should be last in line for the treatment, which comes in the form of infusions or injections, the Tennessean reported Monday.

    The drugs are designed to mimic the body's natural immune response by targeting certain coronavirus proteins and preventing them from entering our cells. The Food and Drug Administration authorized the first monoclonal antibody treatment for COVID-19 in November.

    But the drugs are in short supply in Tennessee and across the US as the Delta variant continues to spread in states with low vaccination rates. In Tennessee, where just 44% of the population is fully vaccinated, COVID-19 cases still hover above 5,000 per day.

    As of September 13, the federal government has been determining how many monoclonal antibody treatments each state will get based on that state's COVID-19 case count and how much supply it uses up each week. The government announced last week that hospitals can no longer order monoclonal antibodies directly from a wholesale supplier, AmerisourceBergen, due to shortages.

    So Tennessee is asking healthcare workers to prioritize the most vulnerable - namely, unvaccinated, partially vaccinated, elderly, and immunocompromised people.

    "It's definitely an ethical dilemma," Rodney Rohde, chair of the Texas State University clinical laboratory science program, told Insider. "I pray and I hope that no healthcare professional would ever be put in that situation."

    Rohde said Tennessee's recommendation could potentially spur other states to issue similar guidelines.

    "It's a mess when we get into legislating who to treat," he added.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Well, clearly, it's important in an emergency pandemic situation of maxed out facilities and critically short supplies, to provide a really exensive solution for those who've cost the most lives, and don't want to be next, but don't want a readily available specifically designed and highly successful and free solution because of their right to self-determine.

    Having triaged life-saving resources and care might lead to an issue of euthanasia.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    I don't believe the cost is that high - I'd heard several thousand dollars. (I could be wrong). Interesting to me, as well - the very same reasons for not getting vaxxed would seemingly apply to the monoclonal anti's - but somehow, that txment is 'okay'. Make your own antibodies from a vax? Or infuse anti's, made in a lab? Not a lot of critical thought going on there.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I don't believe the cost is that high - I'd heard several thousand dollars. (I could be wrong). Interesting to me, as well - the very same reasons for not getting vaxxed would seemingly apply to the monoclonal anti's - but somehow, that txment is 'okay'. Make your own antibodies from a vax? Or infuse anti's, made in a lab? Not a lot of critical thought going on there.
    Yes, I read the cost was $2000 compared to the cost of a vaccination - $20.
    Life is complex.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I don't believe the cost is that high - I'd heard several thousand dollars. (I could be wrong). Interesting to me, as well - the very same reasons for not getting vaxxed would seemingly apply to the monoclonal anti's - but somehow, that txment is 'okay'. Make your own antibodies from a vax? Or infuse anti's, made in a lab? Not a lot of critical thought going on there.
    Ya think?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  20. #90
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I don't believe the cost is that high - I'd heard several thousand dollars. (I could be wrong). Interesting to me, as well - the very same reasons for not getting vaxxed would seemingly apply to the monoclonal anti's - but somehow, that txment is 'okay'. Make your own antibodies from a vax? Or infuse anti's, made in a lab? Not a lot of critical thought going on there.

    Entirely possible - I just remember Trump's monoclonal antibody treatment as costing hundreds of thousands.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Entirely possible - I just remember Trump's monoclonal antibody treatment as costing hundreds of thousands.
    Probably had gold in it suitable for internal use...
    That, and a door to door helicopter ride

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Message from Alaska's largest hospital. Triage.

    And Secret Service securing the hospital, and a medical team that I think numbered 10 medicos, and then an unplanned and impromptu parade around the perimeter of the hospital so that the adoring crowds could witness that the dear leader was still in charge of the dumpster fire. All that security and driving and flying around costs money.

    200 k seems about right when you factor in all that other stuff.
    "Unrepentant Reprobate"
    Lew Barrett



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