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Thread: January 6th Committee

  1. #1156
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Pless and I listened to the hearing on the way back from the ferry.... the look on his face when we heard about Trump trying to grab the wheel of his car was priceless
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  2. #1157
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  3. #1158
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF
    Asha Rangappa is correct. is the DOJ listening?
    "I'll tell you why [religion's] not a scam. In my opinion, all right? Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that."Bill O'Reilly

  4. #1159
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Pless and I listened to the hearing on the way back from the ferry.... the look on his face when we heard about Trump trying to grab the wheel of his car was priceless
    Absolutely astounding!
    Will

  5. #1160
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    The more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Mr Trump actually is mentally ill, almost in the 'talking to fireplugs' category. His Narcissistic Personality Disorder (link, again) makes him entirely incapable of accepting the fact that he lost the election, and he'll do ANYTHING to keep that fact at bay, however much damage it causes.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #1161
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Asha Rangappa is correct. is the DOJ listening?
    I'm quite certain of it.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  7. #1162
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    a reminder, a significant percentage of United statesians adore and celebrate tfg
    I’ll check the street vendor near Walmart to see if there’s a change in the display of Trump 2024 flags

  8. #1163
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Mr Trump actually is mentally ill, almost in the 'talking to fireplugs' category. His Narcissistic Personality Disorder (link, again) makes him entirely incapable of accepting the fact that he lost the election, and he'll do ANYTHING to keep that fact at bay, however much damage it causes.
    I think he's well aware that he lost, and knew he was going to lose before the election. Yes, he has a clear-cut case of NPD, but it's not a matter of thinking he didn't lose, it's a matter of thinking he could still keep being president despite getting fewer votes, that he could do a more successful version of the Beer Hall Putsch, a sort of Beer Belly Putsch led by his very own brownshorts.

  9. #1164
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    I dunno, it seems to me to go way, way beyond rational calculations of how to stay in power, particularly lately.

    Let us thank whatever gods there may be for his incompetence at plotting a coup.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-28-2022 at 02:56 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  10. #1165
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Let's not be too hasty with the thanks. He provided the trial run. The next one, history suggests, may well succeed.

    Tom
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  11. #1166
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Mr Trump actually is mentally ill, almost in the 'talking to fireplugs' category. His Narcissistic Personality Disorder (link, again) makes him entirely incapable of accepting the fact that he lost the election, and he'll do ANYTHING to keep that fact at bay, however much damage it causes.
    Yes but he overturned Roe so some messiness is ok.

  12. #1167
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Let's not be too hasty with the thanks. He provided the trial run. The next one, history suggests, may well succeed.

    Tom
    He has set a new standard for what Americans will accept in a president. The next version will probably be on performance enhancing drugs,

  13. #1168
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Migod, but this young woman is so brave. So damned honorable. And I'm sure, utterly wracked with guilt.

    She's also in grave danger, no matter how much security they put around her.
    I'm glad she came forward, but what was her motive? Did she come to a "Darth Vader Moment" where she finally realized the Emperor (Trump) had to go or did she do it to save her own reputation and any chance of working in government again?
    She sure did stir up a hornet's nest, though! Trump has already sent out a message that he "Hardly knew her" and that she is a terrible person.
    The new details about invoking the 25th were interesting, too.
    A lot to digest and work through.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  14. #1169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I dunno, it seems to me to go way, way beyond rational calculations of how to stay in power, particularly lately.

    Let us thank whatever gods there may be for his incompetence at plotting a coup.
    The desire to stay in power by illegal means wasn't rational. But it wasn't based on the delusion that he had actually won the election. It was based on his belief that he should be top dog, no matter what it cost other people, no matter how it damaged the country, no matter what the law said.

    As for the incompetence of the attempted coup, remember what followed the Beer Hall Putsch? Hitler's followers stopped trying to take the government by force, and started working on how to game the system to get him in power. Pretty much what Trump's Brown Shorts are doing now, trying to take over the process of certifying elections at the state and county level, taking over positions in the Republican Party apparatus.

  15. #1170
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'm glad she came forward, but what was her motive? Did she come to a "Darth Vader Moment" where she finally realized the Emperor (Trump) had to go or did she do it to save her own reputation and any chance of working in government again?
    She sure did stir up a hornet's nest, though! Trump has already sent out a message that he "Hardly knew her" and that she is a terrible person.
    The new details about invoking the 25th were interesting, too.
    A lot to digest and work through.
    Same role John Dean played in Watergate, isn't it?

  16. #1171
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Whatever her motive, she's a 25 year old conservative who's taken the stick on her amazing soaring climb of a career and driven the plane straight into the ground.

    Barring Cheney, I can't figure who in the conservative side of politics would ever hire her now. Or what a career path would look like.

    Helluva sacrifice, for all that we can gripe that she ought to have come forward sooner. FWIW though, we don't know when she first came forwards - she sat for 4 separate depositions with the J6 committee, and we don't know when all that started.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  17. #1172
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    . . . remember what followed the Beer Hall Putsch?
    All too well. But Hitler was 34 at the time of the Putsch, and 44 when he became Chancellor in '33. No guarantees, of course.

    I like 'Brown Shorts'
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  18. #1173
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Can’t wait for the comedy skits about this.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ony-takeaways/

    Here’s how Hutchinson relayed what she heard from Ornato about the moment:
    “The president said something to the effect of ‘I’m the f-ing president. Take me up to the Capitol now,’ to which [Robert Engel, the head of the Secret Service detail] responded, ‘Sir, we have to go back to the West Wing.’ The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, ‘Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We’re going back to the West Wing. We’re not going the Capitol.’ Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel,” Hutchinson testified, and said Ornato motioned to his clavicles to describe a kind of choking motion.

  19. #1174
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    The Republican party is now over. Dead.
    I wish you were correct, but it has a remarkably lively corpse, one which may very well outperform the Democrats in mid-term elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    There's no coming back from this and becoming a decent center-right party again. America will need to create a new one.
    They already have one, in the Democrats. I think the real problem is that there are still a yuge number of people who are quite happy to vote Republican.
    Last edited by Flying Orca; 06-28-2022 at 04:06 PM.

    What are you doing about it?




  20. #1175
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Trump might have reached for the secret service agent’s clavicle but this girl just kicked Trump and Meadows in the gronicles…

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

  21. #1176
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Whatever her motive, she's a 25 year old conservative who's taken the stick on her amazing soaring climb of a career and driven the plane straight into the ground.

    Barring Cheney, I can't figure who in the conservative side of politics would ever hire her now. Or what a career path would look like.

    Helluva sacrifice, for all that we can gripe that she ought to have come forward sooner. FWIW though, we don't know when she first came forwards - she sat for 4 separate depositions with the J6 committee, and we don't know when all that started.
    By doing this, her life in conservative politics might well be over. That's what I mean about the "Darth Vader Moment". she destroys the emperor, but at the cost of her own political life (remember, Darth Vader dies while destroying the emperor).
    Her actions are a profile in courage.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  22. #1177
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Source.
    Republicans Are Trying to Cover Up the Greatest Political Scandal in American History
    The GOP still won’t admit it even deserves to be investigated.
    By Jonathan Chait

    The January 6 hearings have two basic functions. The first is to reveal, to the degree it is possible, as much as can be uncovered about Donald Trump’s efforts to negate the 2020 election result and remain in office. The second is to expose the allies who are, in one way or another, complicit in his crime. On both counts, the committee is delivering.

    Tuesday’s hearings produced numerous revelations. Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide to chief of staff Mark Meadows and a first- or secondhand witness to the coup attempt, deepened Trump’s complicity in the insurrection. She testified that Trump instructed Meadows to call Roger Stone and Michael Flynn, two aides who were connected to the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, the main paramilitary organizations that directed the violence; that Trump, after being told his supporters were bringing weapons to his rally, told the Secret Service to remove the metal detectors because “they’re not here to hurt me”; and that Trump was so desperate to join the march on the Capitol that he actually assaulted a Secret Service agent when he was denied on security grounds.

    At this point, even with the hearings in progress, it seems safe to rate this as the greatest political scandal in American history. This is true when measured by its depth (the lengths the perpetrators were willing to go extended to the violent overthrow of the U.S. government) as well as its breadth (the guilty parties included elected officials, lawyers, foot soldiers, and, of course, the president of the United States).

    It is all the more striking, then, that the Republican Party stance was, and is, that none of this should be investigated. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell opposed the formation of the commission. (“After careful consideration, I’ve made the decision to oppose the House Democrats’ slanted and unbalanced proposal for another commission to study the events of January 6th,” he announced on the Senate floor last year.) House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy appointed a collection of Trump lackeys. When House Speaker Nancy Pelosi refused to seat two of them — Jims Jordan and Banks — on the grounds that they were personally implicated in the investigation, McCarthy ordered his entire caucus to boycott the hearings.

    Republicans have responded to the stream of revelations by dismissing them as boring and partisan. Their party-controlled media have either ignored the hearings, engaged in frantic whataboutism, or supplied talking points to distract from the damning news. They have turned against the only members of their party willing to participate in the hearings, branding them as traitors.

    This in turn has sent a message to every staffer privy to the coup who is contemplating the choice to share what they know or stick to the omertà. The future in Republican politics belongs to those who do not betray Trump. They may not be required to pledge open obedience to him, but silence is far safer for their careers as Republicans than testifying against Trump is. Republicans could have made cooperating with the committee the safe choice. Instead, they have made it dangerous.

    Republicans probably justify all this as simple partisan logic. If you are able to conceive of events only in terms of political benefit, then the function of the hearings is to hurt Republicans; therefore, the Republican task is to engage in damage control. But this is precisely the kind of rank partisanship that carried most of the party along with Trump through, and past, his reelection campaign. It brought him within a fraction of a percent of the vote of winning a second term and let his postelection coup attempt come harrowingly close, at minimum, to provoking a violent crisis.

    After Trump refused to accept the election outcome, a Republican aide infamously said, “What is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time?” It was an astonishing quote even then. January 6 revealed how dangerous that mentality is. The party’s response to the hearings reveals that this mentality has not changed.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  23. #1178
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Michael Flynn pleaded the 5th when asked under oath in taped testimony to the committee if he believed in the peaceful transfer of power. Jesus.
    Can Lieutenant General Flynn (ret.) be recalled to active duty and court-martialed under UCMJ Article 94 (mutiny/sedition)?

    Seditious conspiracy is only good for 20 years. UCMJ Article 94 is a capital offense.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  24. #1179
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    I reckon that the Republic is in more danger now than on Jan 6, even though the trump party coup conspiracy has been thoroughly and publicly outed.

  25. #1180
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    By doing this, her life in conservative politics might well be over.
    Might? How can there be any doubt? Like Cheney, she deserves recognition for doing the right thing.

    Perhaps the most compelling aspect of today's broadcast was the recitation of testimony from unnamed people who described what is at least an attempt to influence their testimony and perhaps even veiled threats. That was amazing!
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  26. #1181
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Is your Justice and Judicial system strong and independent enough to follow this through?

  27. #1182
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Is your Justice and Judicial system strong and independent enough to follow this through?
    Of course, it's very difficult to make predictions--especially about the future. But...

    No.

    Tom
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  28. #1183
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  29. #1184
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'm glad she came forward, but what was her motive? Did she come to a "Darth Vader Moment" where she finally realized the Emperor (Trump) had to go or did she do it to save her own reputation and any chance of working in government again?
    She sure did stir up a hornet's nest, though! Trump has already sent out a message that he "Hardly knew her" and that she is a terrible person.
    The new details about invoking the 25th were interesting, too.
    A lot to digest and work through.
    Her motive was to be able to get a job and work in Washington again..and write a book.

  30. #1185
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Giuliani and Meadows. Was very specific about hearing those requests personally.

    didn't catch the others.
    Also:

    At the end of Thursday's hearing, the committee aired tape of senior White House staff recounting how members of Congress had requested presidential pardons for their involvement in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential results. The list included Matt Gaetz of Florida and Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia."The only reason I know to ask for a pardon is because you think you committed a crime," said committee member Adam Kinzinger, a Republican.


    Source

    Tom




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  31. #1186
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Is your Justice and Judicial system strong and independent enough to follow this through?

    Probably, for the most part, all the inferior courts are. Department of Justice? I'd like to say yes, but TFG did some damage there that needs to be repaired.

    Crapshoot once you get to our Supreme Court, though.

    I fear that the Federalist Society, Yertl McTurtle, and TFG have managed to rather fully corrupt it, as evidenced by the recent decisions handed down from it.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  32. #1187
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I reckon that the Republic is in more danger now than on Jan 6, even though the trump party coup conspiracy has been thoroughly and publicly outed.
    No. The idea that Americans, as in, the public, will be outraged enough, on either side, is ridiculous. As always, everyone'll sit back, tut-tutting, and essentially do nothing. A few fanatics on the fascist side will make a noise and a few committed people on the other side will wave placards again but the inertia that is America will prevail. The whole embarrassing fiasco that is modern America will just keep stumbling along. Children will continue to be slaughtered, another million or so will die in the next pandemic, the whole thing will fade into history as soon as America can find another Middle-Eastern or Asian country to vent its rage on and justify the ongoing dominance of the MIC. And Australia, UK and the other US puppet states will simply go along with that, sadly. Nothing really meaningful will emerge from these hearings because there is a terminal lack of will. SNAFU.
    Rick

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  33. #1188
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    .
    Q: General Flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the United States of America?

    A: I take the Fifth.

    Criminals.
    "I'll tell you why [religion's] not a scam. In my opinion, all right? Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that."Bill O'Reilly

  34. #1189
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    .
    Q: General Flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the United States of America?

    A: I take the Fifth.

    Criminals.
    That was messed up. Definitely signaling for the “base”.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  35. #1190
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    Default Re: January 6th Committee

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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