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Thread: Mary E. capsize

  1. #1
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    Default Mary E. capsize

    If this was posted. I missed it.

    https://www.newscentermaine.com/arti...3-5c15aa777efe

    Author: Chris Costa (NEWS CENTER Maine)
    Published: 7:07 PM EDT July 30, 2021
    Updated: 6:20 PM EDT July 31, 2021

    BATH, Maine — Bath Police say the historic schooner "Mary E" capsized in the Kennebec River Friday afternoon with more than a dozen people on board.

    The Coast Guard is investigating how the ship capsized, but police said 15 passengers and three crew were on board and have all been rescued and are back onshore, safe and accounted for. One woman was taken to the hospital as a precaution.




    Brunswick Police said their drone was requested to the scene, and that a Bath Iron Works rescue boat also responded.

    The Bath harbormaster was on the scene waiting for the Coast Guard to take over the investigation.

    Bath Police said the boat is still in the water. It is unclear how deep the water was at the time the boat capsized.

    The chief said the "Mary E" is typically docked at the Maine Maritime Museum.

    According to the museum's website, in December 2016, the board of Maine Maritime Museum approved the acquisition of Mary E. In spring of 2017, she arrived at the museum, and restored in the historic Percy & Small Shipyard from 2017-2018. She was relaunched in the Kennebec River in 2018. The schooner is on the National Register of Historic Places and the only Kennebec-built schooner still afloat.

    According to the museum's website, the Mary E was scheduled to go on a 2.5 hour river sail starting at 4 p.m. The ship was scheduled to pass by the site of the Thomas E. Hagan yard where Mary E was built in 1906, as well as Doubling Point Light and the Kennebec Range Lights, and Bath Iron Works. It is unclear at what point in the voyage the ship capsized.

    The incident is under investigation. NEWS CENTER Maine has a crew on the way to the scene and will provide updates as soon as possible.

    "At this time we are working to determine what factors may have contributed; we will provide more information as it becomes available. We are grateful for the rapid response of the crew and the multiple agencies that assisted in quickly bringing those aboard to shore," said Katie Spiridakis, Marketing and Communications Manager for the Maine Maritime Museum.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

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    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Hope we find out. I'm unable to even guess at what sort of rapid failure happened.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Seems she's been towed to the side of the river & the CG is figuring out how to get her out. Be interesting to hear what happened as the news reports aren't very clear.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    can't believe there isn't some footage of the incident, I'm sure we will find out sooner or later. What a shame.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    can't believe there isn't some footage of the incident, I'm sure we will find out sooner or later. What a shame.
    There might be, but much of the Kennebec along there is out of sight of roads etc, except near Bath Iron Works & towards the ocean where there are some beaches. There's surprising depth in the center and shallows along the sides, but between the river flow & tides, there can be interesting currents.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Damn. I was there at Maine Maritime Museum when she arrived for her rebuild. It was a big deal. Then again for her launch. From that photo she went over right by Bath Iron Works. Such a shame. Maybe my sister knows more, she’s on the City Council there in Bath.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Is the word "capsize" being used correctly here? If a vessel that size and design truly capsizes, it would usually fill with water and sink.
    Did it spring a leak and start to sink and being towed and beached assume what they are calling a capsized position?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    No, it capsized in a strong gust of wind. My sister lives a mile and a half from there and was noting how windy it was at the time.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Wow - musta been a serious gust! I will say I've experienced some going over the bridge. In the Sheepscot as well, but nothing big enough to capsize Neoga.

    ETA: Her rig isn't very tall - so I wonder about ballast? Couldn't find dimensions.

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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    can't believe there isn't some footage of the incident, I'm sure we will find out sooner or later. What a shame.
    Probably lots of video on wet iPhones.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    So didn’t capsize over there by BIW and the Museum. She was towed there after. She was capsized by a gust from the North as she came around Doubling Point.


    AC8B3300-670A-4574-A17D-44F5355B438D.jpg

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    The pin is at Doubling Point. As she came past the point she would have come from the shelter of the headland there into the full force of the wind coming down the river from the bridge. Could this be as simple as just not freeing the main sheet soon enough as they came into the wind?

    Attachment 91634

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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Yesterday afternoon?
    I had my daily sailing report from Penobscot bay noting it was a "land breeze" (NW) with (very) strong gusts. "A beautiful day, there was no room for ribaldry or error and just keeping conversation was awkward"

    (It wasn't that long ago the schooner Mary Day was knocked down and sunk in Eggemogin Reach in similar conditions 20 years maybe, it happens)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    It was Friday, so day before yesterday. I’m not sure how strong the winds were. The boat was built in 1908 and just underwent a million dollar rebuild so I’m curious how this happened. Had she never seen wind gusts this strong under sail in over a hundred years?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Thank you, My "report" was probably Fri then...

    The offshore breeze close by the land up there can be very powerful, and often hardly noticed from the land itself other than "Huh, it's windy today"
    I have been seriously "caught out" a couple of times, heading off on a broad reach and striking sails as quickly as possible, sails pinned under the boat and the whole deal...Thankfully I had room to head down the bay under the (small) jib alone looking for a suitable cove to hide in. It was rail down under jib alone, there was not a prayer of working (Rosinante) to windward.

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    Default

    Glad all hands are safe.


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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Capsized? I think we are talking about getting knocked down and down flooding through hatches,companionways and ports. No?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCaird View Post
    Capsized? I think we are talking about getting knocked down and down flooding through hatches,companionways and ports. No?
    I think so. I haven’t heard any first hand reports yet.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    What's the difference between a capsize and being knocked down? I always thought them equivalent
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Capsized and turtled seem equivalent. Rails under and awash all the way to mast touching the sea seems like a knock down. Both tend to be memorable.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Hope they have a good lawyer and a BIG insurance policy. Might be a schooner for sale cheap soon.
    I’m guessing PFD’s are required to be worn by all aboard?
    Last edited by Reynard38; 08-01-2021 at 03:34 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Doubtful. Most tourist schooners have the life jackets at hand but they aren’t worn routinely.

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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    It was pretty blustery yesterday around Mount Desert Island. I saw a lot of bottom paint on the local boats. The wind combined with the moderate short period chop (2-3 feet) made for wet sailing on some boats. We even took some spray on deck, but I was reefed down pretty hard, but my Allied was over 7 knots quite a few times despite that. The local IOD fleet was racing under full sail though and I saw a few of them heeled around 45 degrees. They looked like they were having fun.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    What's the difference between a capsize and being knocked down? I always thought them equivalent

    Knocked down is a (the?) means to get to a capsize.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    That's the way I view it: if the boat is on her side with the mast and sail in the water or damn close to being in the water, you've capsized.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    Most dictionaries put a capsize at ninety degrees or more. A knockdown is less and you come back. Mostly. Most sailboats can't really turtle in flat water from wind alone. It takes a bit of sea action.

    I've had a couple of dangerous knockdowns with Marmalade, each marked by a very rapid wind shift of more than ninety degrees from a beat to broad reach. In such a case even letting the sheet run does not keep the sail from overpowering the hull's stability. Gaff sails with a relatively flat head are especially susceptible.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    I've capsized my rubber boots by going in bit to far.
    My concept of capsize is the water comes over rail and fills the vessel, whatever that may be...

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    I'm glad guests and crew are ok, but this is painful on muliple levels

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I've capsized my rubber boots by going in bit to far.
    My concept of capsize is the water comes over rail and fills the vessel, whatever that may be...

    The dictionary definition of capsize is to upset or overturn. For instance, on a big schooner, one coils down the halyard and then capsizes the coil so that when the halyard is release it will run free.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    There are some observers' suggestions that she was caught abeam by a gust, sheets weren't freed swiftly enough, the internal ballast may have shifted to leeward and over she went. But not official.
    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    We've done that trick with Dalia, but she came back once sheets were started. Our ballast was firmly attached to the keel, both above and below it.

    But a 1908 schooner probably had internal ballast that came loose. I wouldn't want to watch that from below decks.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    I agree with George. but am rather surprised because she seems to have had quite a modest sail area.

    Thinking of another casualty to a schooner in a river, the sinking after collision of the Elbe No.4, a point in common is that both had a good number of enthusiastic but inexperienced passengers on board. In the case of the Elbe No.4 whilst we wait for the final enquiry report it looks as if the tiller was put the wrong way in response to a helm order.
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    My first impression upon reading of the incident was that the term "capsize" should be viewed with a jaundiced eye, as the published reports were written by news reporters whom are rather unlikely to understand the nuances of nautical terms. From what I have read so far, I would describe the sinking as "a knockdown followed by down-flooding".

    The report with accurate terminology and a very good probability of being an accurate description of the event will be available in a few months and will be published by the Coast Guard accident investigation department.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Mary E. capsize

    The SeaTow captain who was there helping with the refloating is a friend. If I can glean any useful info from him I'll post.
    “Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

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