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Thread: The unvaccinated are a problem

  1. #36
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Maybe not. But that's the direction those who know how to manage infectious diseases are recommending.

    Tom
    Really? And who would that be? The same folks that tell people to get vaccinated, but then tell the same folks to wear a mask because the vaccine won’t keep you from getting the virus?
    Those “experts?
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Really? And who would that be? The same folks that tell people to get vaccinated, but then tell the same folks to wear a mask because the vaccine won’t keep you from getting the virus?
    Those “experts?
    Why is this so hard for some to understand?

    Yes, with the new delta variant those that are vaccinated can get the virus and shed it to other vaccinated and non vaccinated people.
    Therefore wearing a mask even if vaccinated will protect other vaccinated and non vaccinated people from the new variants.

    With one major caveat non vaccinated people are coming down with faster more sever cases, hospitalization and unfortunately death. So because I'm vaccinated I will continue to wear a mask to prevent the possibility of me contracting the virus and passing it along, especially to the unvaccinated because being selfish and killing someone is not something I could live with. It's a small piece of cloth that gives empathy towards my fellow man and really isn't that hard.

    Lastly if EVERYONE had gotten vaccinated we would be in a much better place. Alas vaccination has become political and identity politics so this will only get worse as more and more deadly variants emerge. Why ???? because unlike those who prefer their choice to die the virus has ONE objective and ONE objective ONLY- TO LIVE and for that to happen the Viruses "vaccination" is the unvaccinated.
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  3. #38
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Really? And who would that be? The same folks that tell people to get vaccinated, but then tell the same folks to wear a mask because the vaccine won’t keep you from getting the virus?
    Those “experts?





    ME: CDC, should I get poke if I already had Covid?


    CDC: “Yes, you should be poked regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19.”


    ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does poke-induced immunity last?


    CDC: “There is still a lot we are learning about COVID-19 pokes and CDC is constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are poked.”


    ME: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the poke was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long poke immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the poke immunity better than my natural immunity?


    CDC: …


    ME: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?


    CDC: Yes.


    NEWYORKTIMES: “Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.”


    ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than poke immunity?


    CDC: Possibly. You never know.


    ME: Okay. If I get the poke, does that mean I won’t get sick?


    BRITAIN: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are poked people.


    ME: CDC, is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.S. catching Covid after getting the poke?


    CDC: We stopped tracking breakthrough cases. We accept voluntary reports of breakthroughs but aren’t out there looking for them.


    ME: Does that mean that if someone comes in the hospital with Covid, you don’t track them because they’ve been poked? You only track the UN-poked Covid cases?


    CDC: That’s right.


    ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the poke, how is it helping me?


    CDC: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.


    ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.


    CDC: We don’t know “exactly.”


    ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?


    CDC: We don’t know, okay? Next question.


    ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the poke, is there any reason I should get it?


    CDC: Yes, for the collective.


    ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting poked?


    CDC: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.


    ME: Can a poked person spread the virus to someone else?


    CDC: Yes.


    ME: So if I get poked, I could still spread the virus to someone else?


    CDC: Yes.


    ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get poked was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the poke?


    CDC: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unpoked, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the pokes protection, putting all poked people at risk.


    ME: So the poke stops the virus from mutating?


    CDC: No.


    ME: So it can still mutate in poked people?


    CDC: Yes.


    ME: This seems confusing. If the poke doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting poked help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the poke?


    CDC: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unpoked, you pose a threat to poked people.


    ME: But what KIND of threat??


    CDC: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.


    ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the poke doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying poked people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the poke just by running into an unpoked person! Which is it??


    CDC: That’s it, we’re hanging up now.


    ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get poked, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long poke immunity lasts. And I should get the poke to keep a poked person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the poke, I can give it to the poked person anyways. And, the other poked person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?


    … chirp ….. chirp…..


    ME: Um, hello? Is anyone there????

  4. #39
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    There are three reasons for evolving directives:

    Scientific understanding of the COVID virus family is evolving;

    The COVID virus is evolving with a cluster of variants; and

    Scientific understanding of how the different vaccines work with different COVID strands and human populations is evolving.

    No directive can possibly be final. For example, we've learned that the delta variant is incredibly infectious. Testing has found very high nasal viral loading in asymptomatic people. The vaccine is doing its job and the immune system is up to the job but these people can be incredible spreaders.

    Hence the new directive for remasking for the protection of both self and others.

    So far the three US vaccines have kept vaccined people from getting more than mildly ill, if ill at all, but the day will come when the virus beats the vaccine.

    As with all science, what we "know" now will be in some ways wrong in the future.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

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  6. #41
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    There are three reasons for evolving directives:

    Scientific understanding of the COVID virus family is evolving;

    The COVID virus is evolving with a cluster of variants; and

    Scientific understanding of how the different vaccines work with different COVID strands and human populations is evolving.

    No directive can possibly be final. For example, we've learned that the delta variant is incredibly infectious. Testing has found very high nasal viral loading in asymptomatic people. The vaccine is doing its job and the immune system is up to the job but these people can be incredible spreaders.

    Hence the new directive for remasking for the protection of both self and others.

    So far the three US vaccines have kept vaccined people from getting more than mildly ill, if ill at all, but the day will come when the virus beats the vaccine.

    As with all science, what we "know" now will be in some ways wrong in the future.
    And of course medical experts / Doctor’s are “Practicing” medicine.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    And of course medical experts / Doctor’s are “Practicing” medicine.
    So does that mean if you need emergency life saving surgery you would flip a coin to decide if the surgeon should "practice" on you?
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Now Ian, you know these anti-vaxxers don’t believe in evolution either so how could the COVID-19 virus evolve into new variants? You think they were born yesterday?

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

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  11. #46
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Thank you Paul.
    As I’ve mentioned before, I got poked. Didn’t really see a downside to it. I do work with a LOT of people, pilots and flight attendants that refuse to get poked.
    A frequent reason for their resistance has been inconsistent messaging from various governmental agencies. It’s really been handled horribly, and there are FAR too many points of contact putting the info out. The message is constantly changing.
    These “experts” may truly be knowledgeable in their fields, but they need to stay in the lab and leave the public communication to entities that understand human psychology in large groups.

    I deal with this, in a micro environment, with my job. I frequently have to give @ 100 people not so great news. Last night I had to make a request of my passengers due to a intoxicated/unstable individual. They were happy to help. Consistent, honest messaging is key. People and the public (most of them anyway) want to be helpful and do the right thing. But if your message isn’t consistent, you BS them and then have to change the narrative you’ll get resistance.
    Be upfront, under promise and over deliver and above all tell the truth and you can deliver a plane load of passenger to a city they didn’t want to end up in at 2:30am and all but 1 or 2 will be satisfied.
    Feed them a line and you might just have a riot on your hands.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  12. #47
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    \
    A frequent reason for their resistance has been inconsistent messaging from various governmental agencies. It’s really been handled horribly, and there are FAR too many points of contact putting the info out. The message is constantly changing.
    Are you new to the idea of science ? Thats how science works we are constantly adjusting, testing and reevaluating the results to MOVE SCIENCE FORWARD.

    What you are looking for is a magic bullet that has ONE ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE, how silly. It actually would be far more dangerous to stick to one scientific edict regardless of any new data. S#!T we would still be leaching people and blood draining and performing surgery without scrubbing in.

    As our president says COME ON MAN
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Are you new to the idea of science ? Thats how science works we are constantly adjusting, testing and reevaluating the results to MOVE SCIENCE FORWARD.

    What you are looking for is a magic bullet that has ONE ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE, how silly. It actually would be far more dangerous to stick to one scientific edict regardless of any new data. S#!T we would still be leaching people and blood draining and performing surgery without scrubbing in.

    As our president says COME ON MAN
    The vast majority of Americans are not “scientists”. The “scientists” need to realize that. Inconsistent messaging will yield inconsistent responses. Plus it enables FUD, which opponents of the vaccine are quick to utilize.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  14. #49
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    The vast majority of Americans are not “scientists”. The “scientists” need to realize that. Inconsistent messaging will yield inconsistent responses. Plus it enables FUD, which opponents of the vaccine are quick to utilize.
    you don’t ask scientists to do messaging, you ask communication specialists

  15. #50
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    you don’t ask scientists to do messaging, you ask communication specialists
    Exactly! Thanks Hugh. The public should never hear from the scientists. The message that gets delivered should weigh in all factors, medical, economic etc. The hodgepodge we get now has, IMO, contributed greatly to our low vaccination numbers.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  16. #51
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Exactly! Thanks Hugh. The public should never hear from the scientists. The message that gets delivered should weigh in all factors, medical, economic etc. The hodgepodge we get now has, IMO, contributed greatly to our low vaccination numbers.

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Thank you Paul.
    As I’ve mentioned before, I got poked. Didn’t really see a downside to it. I do work with a LOT of people, pilots and flight attendants that refuse to get poked.
    A frequent reason for their resistance has been inconsistent messaging from various governmental agencies. It’s really been handled horribly, and there are FAR too many points of contact putting the info out. The message is constantly changing.
    These “experts” may truly be knowledgeable in their fields, but they need to stay in the lab and leave the public communication to entities that understand human psychology in large groups.

    I deal with this, in a micro environment, with my job. I frequently have to give @ 100 people not so great news. Last night I had to make a request of my passengers due to a intoxicated/unstable individual. They were happy to help. Consistent, honest messaging is key. People and the public (most of them anyway) want to be helpful and do the right thing. But if your message isn’t consistent, you BS them and then have to change the narrative you’ll get resistance.
    Be upfront, under promise and over deliver and above all tell the truth and you can deliver a plane load of passenger to a city they didn’t want to end up in at 2:30am and all but 1 or 2 will be satisfied.
    Feed them a line and you might just have a riot on your hands.
    You've misunderstood the problem.

    Leaving out the Trumpers and their enablers, the messaging around COVID-19, overall, has been accurate and honest. But we then get people who conveniently remember part of a previous message (e.g "vaccines will make you less likely to become infected") and ignore other parts (e.g. "but although, of course, complete protection cannot be guaranteed, vaccines will also make it less likely that you will become seriously ill or need to be hospitalized").

    Then suddenly someone will notice that, exactly as predicted, some people are still getting infected even after vaccination. But instead of understanding that this is actually a confirmation of the original messaging, they take it as proof that the original message was a lie. And they will suddenly hear reports that vaccines are still protecting people from becoming seriously ill or hospitalized (just as in the original messaging)--but they will insist that this is a NEW message, an inconsistent message.

    They will claim "bait & switch" (first they told us we wouldn't get infected at all, now they are telling us we won't get seriously sick or hospitalized) and think they are being lied to, that "the messaging has been inconsistent."

    Nonsense. It's consistent. It largely confirms what was said earlier. And where there are changes to the message, they fail to understand that those changes represent changes in our understanding of the virus, and should thus be welcomed ("We know more now than we used to!").

    We've seen this here on the WBF, with peb. The unreasoning need to see inconsistent messaging when, really, the problem was that you didn't pay attention, or didn't understand, what the messaging actually was in the first place.

    Tom
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    The UK is good example that vaccines work also on the delta variant. They've had a large increase in infected without a corresponding effect on hospitalizations and deaths.
    /Erik

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Why is this so hard for some to understand?

    Yes, with the new delta variant those that are vaccinated can get the virus and shed it to other vaccinated and non vaccinated people.
    Therefore wearing a mask even if vaccinated will protect other vaccinated and non vaccinated people from the new variants.

    With one major caveat non vaccinated people are coming down with faster more sever cases, hospitalization and unfortunately death. So because I'm vaccinated I will continue to wear a mask to prevent the possibility of me contracting the virus and passing it along, especially to the unvaccinated because being selfish and killing someone is not something I could live with. It's a small piece of cloth that gives empathy towards my fellow man and really isn't that hard.

    Lastly if EVERYONE had gotten vaccinated we would be in a much better place. Alas vaccination has become political and identity politics so this will only get worse as more and more deadly variants emerge. Why ???? because unlike those who prefer their choice to die the virus has ONE objective and ONE objective ONLY- TO LIVE and for that to happen the Viruses "vaccination" is the unvaccinated.
    ^^^ Exactly this.

    Nothing provides perfect protection--not vaccines, not masks, not 6' distance. No expert messaging has ever claimed otherwise.

    Wearing a mask after being vaccinated provides some degree of protection--both ways. It helps keep the masked/vaccinated person uninfected, and (if they pick up enough viral load to infect others without becoming infected themselves, or without becoming symptomatic), also protects those around that person.

    As Joe said, those who need that protection the most are unvaccinated.

    A vaccinated person might very well be personally safe without masking. Even if they get infected, they're likely to have mild or asymptomatic cases. But they may well also have enough viral load to infect many other people.

    I have to say, someone who makes a big fuss over how they "got poked" but refuses to wear a mask? That reflects very poorly on that person. It's the perfect "I got mine, so f*** you" attitude personified.

    I feel mingled pity and contempt for people who choose to live by that credo. But I'll still wear my mask around them to make it less likely they'll get sick and die.

    Tom
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    You've misunderstood the problem.

    Leaving out the Trumpers and their enablers, the messaging around COVID-19, overall, has been accurate and honest. But we then get people who conveniently remember part of a previous message (e.g "vaccines will make you less likely to become infected") and ignore other parts (e.g. "but although, of course, complete protection cannot be guaranteed, vaccines will also make it less likely that you will become seriously ill or need to be hospitalized").

    Then suddenly someone will notice that, exactly as predicted, some people are still getting infected even after vaccination. But instead of understanding that this is actually a confirmation of the original messaging, they take it as proof that the original message was a lie. And they will suddenly hear reports that vaccines are still protecting people from becoming seriously ill or hospitalized (just as in the original messaging)--but they will insist that this is a NEW message, an inconsistent message.

    They will claim "bait & switch" (first they told us we wouldn't get infected at all, now they are telling us we won't get seriously sick or hospitalized) and think they are being lied to, that "the messaging has been inconsistent."

    Nonsense. It's consistent. It largely confirms what was said earlier. And where there are changes to the message, they fail to understand that those changes represent changes in our understanding of the virus, and should thus be welcomed ("We know more now than we used to!").

    We've seen this here on the WBF, with peb. The unreasoning need to see inconsistent messaging when, really, the problem was that you didn't pay attention, or didn't understand, what the messaging actually was in the first place.

    Tom
    ^^^^ THIS ^^^

    Glad I’m in the same company as Tom
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  21. #56
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    As I have said before and Joe So just demonstrated with a mildly irrelevant graph, you all seem to assume every one who contracts the disease dies. And from some posts, die miserably and regretful and wished they had chosen the vaccine route earlier, and you are all crowing and making comments like Darwin at work and other pathetic bull. I look around I look regularly at the infection rates for my adopted country, the death rates , the recovery rates, . don't take my word for it google the Reuters covid page on Portugal news.

    I still know of, but not know personally only one person who has died due to Covid . a 45 year old healthy male with no underlying health issues. three weeks of misery in intensive care and then death. 45 yrs old. Diabetic.. Obese, Static immune system disease for the last twenty years. ( no known previous health issues? please...)
    15 died in Portugal yesterday . 11 eleven between 80 and 90, two between 70 and 80, two above 50. no data other than that. go see that site there's a whole load of stuff , not from the Anti vax brigade, but the DGS Portugal national health ministry. infections are dropping entry into ER is dropping ER to Intensive care is dropping. infected recovered is rising. The R1 factor has fallen below 1. yes 60% have had at least one jab and 50% both.

    I don't know more than a handful in 18 months who have even got sick. and all recovered.

    I have been asking and probing all clients and friends and relatives in a sort of 'oh, incidentally, how's things' way. I know personally one person who is currently in hospital, not emergency, not intensive care, with side effects from the jab. shes 60. not that fit, not obese or diabetic either. and two others by hearsay, as I don't know them personally who have been 'under the weather' for two weeks.
    I know noone with long covid. I know noone with acute covid.
    I was on the verge of getting vaxxed about a week ago, but now, not now. not yet.
    I'm a mix of Persigian Classic Romantic and my work makes me both technician and scientist. well, chemist anyway. with a bit of artistry thrown in.
    17000 dead since the 'start of the pandemic' in a population of 10.3million.
    I'll take my chances , thank you.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Exactly! Thanks Hugh. The public should never hear from the scientists. The message that gets delivered should weigh in all factors, medical, economic etc. The hodgepodge we get now has, IMO, contributed greatly to our low vaccination numbers.
    that track was set when former guy decided he couldn’t be bothered to care about covid so the way out of the problem was to have he & his admin lie about it. “Trust science” polls well can be problematic policy communication.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Really? And who would that be? The same folks that tell people to get vaccinated, but then tell the same folks to wear a mask because the vaccine won’t keep you from getting the virus?
    Those “experts?
    You really do need to pay attention. The vaccine is not as protective against the delta strain. Vaccinated people MAY catch the virus, but they have only a 2 or 3 percent chance of needing medical help if they do. Unvaccinated people make up 97% of those who are dying from Covid.

    Vaccinated people, who won't get very ill from the delta variant, can still spread it.

    IT'S NOT ALL THAT COMPLICATED.
    Last edited by John Smith; 07-31-2021 at 05:01 PM.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    As I have said before and Joe So just demonstrated with a mildly irrelevant graph, you all seem to assume every one who contracts the disease dies. And from some posts, die miserably and regretful and wished they had chosen the vaccine route earlier, and you are all crowing and making comments like Darwin at work and other pathetic bull. I look around I look regularly at the infection rates for my adopted country, the death rates , the recovery rates, . don't take my word for it google the Reuters covid page on Portugal news.

    I still know of, but not know personally only one person who has died due to Covid . a 45 year old healthy male with no underlying health issues. three weeks of misery in intensive care and then death. 45 yrs old. Diabetic.. Obese, Static immune system disease for the last twenty years. ( no known previous health issues? please...)
    15 died in Portugal yesterday . 11 eleven between 80 and 90, two between 70 and 80, two above 50. no data other than that. go see that site there's a whole load of stuff , not from the Anti vax brigade, but the DGS Portugal national health ministry. infections are dropping entry into ER is dropping ER to Intensive care is dropping. infected recovered is rising. The R1 factor has fallen below 1. yes 60% have had at least one jab and 50% both.

    I don't know more than a handful in 18 months who have even got sick. and all recovered.

    I have been asking and probing all clients and friends and relatives in a sort of 'oh, incidentally, how's things' way. I know personally one person who is currently in hospital, not emergency, not intensive care, with side effects from the jab. shes 60. not that fit, not obese or diabetic either. and two others by hearsay, as I don't know them personally who have been 'under the weather' for two weeks.
    I know noone with long covid. I know noone with acute covid.
    I was on the verge of getting vaxxed about a week ago, but now, not now. not yet.
    I'm a mix of Persigian Classic Romantic and my work makes me both technician and scientist. well, chemist anyway. with a bit of artistry thrown in.
    17000 dead since the 'start of the pandemic' in a population of 10.3million.
    I'll take my chances , thank you.
    Renee & I know six non mobility people under 60 years old that never got to see 2021 because of covid



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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Exactly! Thanks Hugh. The public should never hear from the scientists. The message that gets delivered should weigh in all factors, medical, economic etc. The hodgepodge we get now has, IMO, contributed greatly to our low vaccination numbers.
    I don't care who delivers the message as long as the message is accurate. Delta changed the factual situation. Should the scientists not tell us that? Should they have not told us what they knew based on facts before Delta?

    Seems to me the scientists have always told us the virus can, and likely will, mutate, and that will change the facts.

    These facts get distorted by some sources for strictly political reasons.

    Would you rather we not be told that Delta can be spread by vaccinated people?

    If some new strain is found would you rather the scientists not tell us?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Leaving out the Trumpers and their enablers, the messaging around COVID-19, overall, has been accurate and honest.
    Aside from the fact that we have no ability to know if the messaging has been accurate and honest - we only know what we are told, the government - regardless of political party in charge, has seldom been accurate or honest.

    You might have missed something like:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/4487953001/
    The nation’s top infectious diseases expert Dr. Anthony Fauci dismissed the idea that COVID-19 would be eradicated in the next several years at a webinar hosted by think tank Chatham House in November. [2020]

    We need to plan that this is something we may need to maintain control over chronically.
    As U.S. infections rise, the C.D.C. urges some vaccinated Americans to wear masks again. The new guidance would mark a sharp turnabout from the agency’s position since May [2021] that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks in most indoor spaces.
    I and others might argue that the CDC's position on masks was not honest and cite Fauci's comments in November 2020 as evidence. We would make a claim the dishonesty was due to political concerns. Most likely concerns that individuals were fed up with wearing masks.

    My wife and kids did not change our behavior due to the May 2021 policy change, because we understood why the CDC and government officials were being dishonest.

    I am surprised that many here are unable to distinguish dishonesty from their chosen political party.
    Life is complex.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Aside from the fact that we have no ability to know if the messaging has been accurate and honest - we only know what we are told, the government - regardless of political party in charge, has seldom been accurate or honest.

    You might have missed something like:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ns/4487953001/



    I and others might argue that the CDC's position on masks was not honest and cite Fauci's comments in November 2020 as evidence. We would make a claim the dishonesty was due to political concerns. Most likely concerns that individuals were fed up with wearing masks.

    My wife and kids did not change our behavior due to the May 2021 policy change, because we understood why the CDC and government officials were being dishonest.

    I am surprised that many here are unable to distinguish dishonesty from their chosen political party.
    How about as we learn more we change our knowledge and adjust to become more correct ?
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  28. #63
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  29. #64
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Bear in mind this virus is not been in the gene pool for 2 years yet, and wthe virus changes quicker than science can catch Research is in it's early stages as yet, but som has been done and 'there are indications't that Covid, and Long Covid in particular cand cause Auto Immune diseases the arise in the sufferer.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41584-020-0448-7

  30. #65
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem



    The favourite niece is travelling for a university interview, 9 hours by bus through the Wild West of the Zamboanga Peninsula to Zamboanga City. She just sent me the picture of the bus. The fare has gone up to reflect the drop in the number of people travelling.

    There is almost no vaccination here, yet. It may be a couple more years. Social distancing and masks are taken quite seriously even on buses (note the seat layout).

    It’s remarkable that a teenager can snap a picture on her phone and send it across the world from a region where Europeans and Americans are discouraged from visiting.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-01-2021 at 04:20 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  31. #66
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    How about as we learn more we change our knowledge and adjust to become more correct ?
    well said-

  32. #67
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    How about as we learn more we change our knowledge and adjust to become more correct ?
    No. Fauci was correct in that Covid will be with us for a long time. He lied when he changed to a no mask recommendation.
    Life is complex.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    No. Fauci was correct in that Covid will be with us for a long time. He lied when he changed to a no mask recommendation.
    NO !! You are promoting disinformation and conjecture based on your belief system and confirmation bias.
    To insinuate he LIED is to continue disinformation and ignore the scientific method.

    Fauci is a scientist so when he acquired more data, he adjusted his his initial knowledge to become more correct !
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  34. #69
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    In support of Joe and of Dr Fauci, here’s a well known quote from John Maynard Keynes:

    ”When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do?”
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  35. #70
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    On this I agree. Get the damn shot.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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