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Thread: The unvaccinated are a problem

  1. #1
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    Default The unvaccinated are a problem

    I'm wondering if we'll see insurance refuse to cover the unvaccinated.

    I'm all for business requiring a mask or proof of vaccination by customers.

    Barring something along these liens, I'm afraid we're going to go back to something worse than where we were.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    I would hope that private insurers would price in the additional cost of a person's wilful or negligent refusal to get a vaccine, as they do with whether a person is a smoker.

    Otherwise, what's the point of the much vaunted American embrace of markets and private sector insurers, which are uniquely able to price their clients' risks and preferences?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    The ACA forbids a great deal of risk adjusted pricing. Something many wanted.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The ACA forbids a great deal of risk adjusted pricing. Something many wanted.
    Truly? Or is this your perspective on the ACA's take on "pre-existing conditions"?

    IIRC the ACA forbids denying insurance to someone who, for instance, has been diagnosed with smoking-related COPD. That's different from pricing insurance policies significantly higher for people who smoke a couple of packs/day.

    By extension, the ACA might forbid denying insurance to someone who has the chronic symptoms associated with "Long COVID." But would be silent on an insurer choosing to offer discounts to clients who could prove full COVID vaccination status, or penalties to clients who refused to take a vaccine for which they're eligible and recommended.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    I'd settle for extra cost. Or an exclusion.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    We are heading for a 2 tier society. It's already started.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Truly?
    Truly.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    We are heading for a 2 tier society. It's already started.
    Class consciousness is truly dead. Not as dead as many of those refusing to get vaccinated though.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Freind of mine is vaxed, since April, but just caught the Delta.

    He is sick " like a flu," he says, but not in the hospital. Day five for him.

    FYI


    Kevin
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Renee & I went to (Liberal) Laguna Beach for dinner last night, sat out side they have turned the main restaurant row Forrest street into an outdoor alfresco dinning and closed off all the traffic and made a pedestrian walkway. Everyone everywhere had masks on including us. Just last week almost no one was wearing masks. I'm sure ultra anti Vaccine / anti mask Huntington Beach and San Clemente are not taking it serious at all.





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  11. #11
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Masks, social distancing, and quarantines work to stop the spread of the virus. They are more troublesome than vaccination. It is really very simple: Let lots of people get sick, wear masks, quarantine, and keep apart (including staying out of restaurants) or get everyone vaccinated.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Midnight tonight, my little corner of Canada drops pandemic restrictions. For a while now we've had nobody in hospital, no deaths, new cases typically numbered in the low single digits.

    It's a bit controversial - there's lots of reason for us to reach this level of re-opening, but it absolutely does come with a risk, considering that the rest of Canada is not uniformly where we are. Alberta's having a rough time again, for instance. It's inevitable that there will be some increases in cases.

    That said, we're a hair under 70% of the population over 12 now fully vaccinated, and the intent I think is to have the greater perception of risk associated with this freedom ... encourage people to get their remaining shots. We'll see how well it works.

    Regardless, most of us in my circle are going to be a bit cautious re-entering this. We were already slated to go to a nearby lake tomorrow with another family ... but we've been seeing that family now for some time. They've been "in our bubble." And we're all fully vaccinated, or at least everyone in either family who's over 12.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Alabama has now passed Mississippi as having the lowest vaccination rate in the country, but the University of Mississippi Medical Center which is the largest hospital in the state has no available ICU beds and is treating people in the halls.

    As the delta variant ravages the state, patients are waiting in hallways at Mississippi’s largest hospital as staff scramble to care for the influx of COVID-19 cases requiring hospitalization.

    All 92 beds in the University of Mississippi Medical Center’s intensive care unit, the state’s largest, are full. The hospital's emergency department is overwhelmed and doctors and nurses are working around the clock to get sick patients into hospital rooms.

    “There just aren’t enough nurses, physicians and hospital beds to treat the cases this wave is causing,” said Jonathan Wilson, UMMC’s chief administrative officer.

    UMMC is not the only hospital experiencing a strain. As of Friday in the Jackson metro area, where COVID-19 cases are rising fastest, there were only three ICU beds available collectively at all area hospitals, according to state health department data. Only 78 of 826 ICU beds statewide were available, or less than 10%, according to state health department data.
    https://www.clarionledger.com/story/...se/5430166001/

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Alabama has now passed Mississippi as having the lowest vaccination rate in the country, but the University of Mississippi Medical Center which is the largest hospital in the state has no available ICU beds and is treating people in the halls.

    https://www.clarionledger.com/story/...se/5430166001/

    Maybe these medical facilities should triage the Covid patients into 2 groups. Those that have received a vaccine go first. Those that have not can wait.
    Might be an incentive for the hesitant to get jabbed.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Maybe these medical facilities should triage the Covid patients into 2 groups. Those that have received a vaccine go first. Those that have not can wait.
    Might be an incentive for the hesitant to get jabbed.
    I've reached a point where that works for me.

    How can a deadly virus become a political statement?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Insurance is the key driver. It, with it's attached gigantic settlements, like liability lawsuits, drives everything in the USA.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Freind of mine is vaxed, since April, but just caught the Delta.

    He is sick " like a flu," he says, but not in the hospital. Day five for him.

    FYI
    The Delta variant has a 10-fold virus load over the original virus. The Delta variant is more transmissible than both ebola and the common cold. The Delta variant appears to be as transmissible as chicken pox.

    The vaccines developed for the original virus appear to be GENERALLY protective against serious illness, hospitalization and death due to the Delta variant. But those who have been vaccinated may be still become infected by the Delta variant and spread the variant to others... whether or not they are symptomatic.

    Masking is about to beome mandatory for everyone once again because of this. And also because anti-vaxxers tend to also be anti-maskers... and so trusting the public to voluntarily wear a mask in indoor public spaces if unvaccinated is foolish and doomed to fail.
    " I am one of those white, common sense conservatives. I believe in science and I have not taken the shot.”
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    As I saw on Twitter, the "as contagious as chickenpox " illustration doesn't work for a majority of the population because ... uhmm ... effective vaccine.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  19. #19
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    The contagiousness of chicken pox was used as a 'natural vaccine.' Parents used to send their children to a neighbor, if the neighbor's child had it, just so they could get infected and avoid it as an adult.

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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    I spent ten minutes standing unmasked out in the driveway talking to my unvaxed brother today, he’s a refusenik, I’ve had both shots as had my wife, it’s been a few hours now and I’m still not sure if she’ll let me back into the house. I’ve thought about bringing up the fifteen minute rule, but the most current internet reference is at least nine months old and I think the Delta variant kinda nullified it. This plague thing is getting so old.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    I have to confess that I do not understand so many people ignoring/denying the known facts.

    Nearly ALL those dying from Covid these days are not vaccinated. Some vaccinated people do catch the delta variant, but few end up the the hospital or dead.

    The delta variant spreads via vaccinated people.

    I'd like to think that most people who have television shows or have been elected to some public office KNOW these things. So why are they putting their audience and/or their voters at risk?

    There may well be more mutations, which may be more contagious and more deadly.

    Then I think of all the people I knew who refused to believe smoking could kill them, until it did.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    What really 'frosts' me - ( upsets me to the max) - are those folks who wear a mask over only the mouth. Do they not realize that a test for Covid is via a nasal swab - and the virus can live in nasal passages ??? Or am I just missing something here ?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Heart wrenching NYT story.

    They Spurned the Vaccine. Now They Want You to Know They Regret It.
    People who once rejected the vaccine or simply waited too long are now grappling with the consequences, often in raw, public ways.


    Glen Arnell, right, and Mindy Greene visited her husband, Russ Greene, at Utah Valley Specialty Hospital. Mr. Greene was hospitalized with complications from Covid-19 after choosing not to receive a vaccination for the virus.Credit...


    PROVO, Utah — As Mindy Greene spent another day in the Covid intensive care unit, listening to the whirring machines that now breathed for her 42-year-old husband, Russ, she opened her phone and tapped out a message.

    “We did not get the vaccine,” she wrote on Facebook. “I read all kinds of things about the vaccine and it scared me. So I made the decision and prayed about it and got the impression that we would be ok.”

    They were not.

    Her husband, the father to their four children, was now hovering between life and death, tentacles of tubes spilling from his body. The patient in the room next to her husband’s had died hours earlier. That day, July 13, Ms. Greene decided to add her voice to an unlikely group of people speaking out in the polarized national debate over vaccination: the remorseful.

    “If I had the information I have today we would have gotten vaccinated,” Ms. Greene wrote. Come what may, she hit “send.”

    Amid a resurgence of coronavirus infections and deaths, some people who once rejected the vaccines or simply waited too long are now grappling with the consequences, often in raw, public ways. A number are speaking from hospital beds, at funerals and in obituaries about their regrets, about the pain of enduring the virus and watching unvaccinated family members die gasping for breath.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/u...uxAn8HU9-RbACY






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  24. #24
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    This week

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  25. #25
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Insurance is the key driver. It, with it's attached gigantic settlements, like liability lawsuits, drives everything in the USA.
    No, it isn't. To The Fearful it's just further evidence of Big Brothers wanting to control them.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post

    The delta variant spreads via vaccinated people.
    But this thread title says the unvaccinated are the problem.

    From media this morning from the US, the CDC say 75% of Delta varient is from vaccinated people, and director Rochelle Wallensky is suggesting masks on fresh scientific data.....

    In Sweden this morning, Anders Tegnell says the varient has been in Sweden for some time with lettle effect. Sweden had just 8 Covid related deaths this month. Even the suggestion of wearing masks on public transported has now eneded, and was never mandated.

    Is it any wonder some people are confused when "the science" is suggesting different things?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Heart wrenching NYT story.

    They Spurned the Vaccine. Now They Want You to Know They Regret It.
    People who once rejected the vaccine or simply waited too long are now grappling with the consequences, often in raw, public ways.


    Glen Arnell, right, and Mindy Greene visited her husband, Russ Greene, at Utah Valley Specialty Hospital. Mr. Greene was hospitalized with complications from Covid-19 after choosing not to receive a vaccination for the virus.Credit...


    PROVO, Utah — As Mindy Greene spent another day in the Covid intensive care unit, listening to the whirring machines that now breathed for her 42-year-old husband, Russ, she opened her phone and tapped out a message.

    “We did not get the vaccine,” she wrote on Facebook. “I read all kinds of things about the vaccine and it scared me. So I made the decision and prayed about it and got the impression that we would be ok.”

    They were not.

    Her husband, the father to their four children, was now hovering between life and death, tentacles of tubes spilling from his body. The patient in the room next to her husband’s had died hours earlier. That day, July 13, Ms. Greene decided to add her voice to an unlikely group of people speaking out in the polarized national debate over vaccination: the remorseful.

    “If I had the information I have today we would have gotten vaccinated,” Ms. Greene wrote. Come what may, she hit “send.”

    Amid a resurgence of coronavirus infections and deaths, some people who once rejected the vaccines or simply waited too long are now grappling with the consequences, often in raw, public ways. A number are speaking from hospital beds, at funerals and in obituaries about their regrets, about the pain of enduring the virus and watching unvaccinated family members die gasping for breath.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/u...uxAn8HU9-RbACY






    On one hand, I'm sorry for her situation. On the other hand, I have a problem with people thinking praying helps anything. Most likely they manage to get 'God' to reinforce what they've already come to believe.

    Sadly, it's getting increasingly difficult for me to have sympathy for those who refuse to believe in science only when they find that science inconvenient. All the care the hospital gives comes from science. I'll wager they have cell phones, computers, tvs, cars, etc, etc, ALL OF WHICH come from science.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Blah
    oh look, the troll spreading covid disinformation.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    But this thread title says the unvaccinated are the problem.

    From media this morning from the US, the CDC say 75% of Delta varient is from vaccinated people, and director Rochelle Wallensky is suggesting masks on fresh scientific data.....

    In Sweden this morning, Anders Tegnell says the varient has been in Sweden for some time with lettle effect. Sweden had just 8 Covid related deaths this month. Even the suggestion of wearing masks on public transported has now eneded, and was never mandated.

    Is it any wonder some people are confused when "the science" is suggesting different things?
    If people had gotten the vaccine, the delta variant would not have gotten such a foothold.

    Vaccinated people can get, and spread, the delta variant, but the odds are dramatically against them getting very ill or needing a hospital.

    So it does make a difference.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    oh look, the troll spreading covid disinformation.

    Reporting data from yours and mine health experts is "covid disinformation" ?

    Get a life.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post

    Masking is about to beome mandatory for everyone once again because of this. And also because anti-vaxxers tend to also be anti-maskers... and so trusting the public to voluntarily wear a mask in indoor public spaces if unvaccinated is foolish and doomed to fail.
    No, it won’t be mandatory for everyone.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  32. #32
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Reporting data from yours and mine health experts is "covid disinformation" ?

    Get a life.
    You aren’t reporting data. Why lie? You don’t have to confuse and obfuscate and distort, but you choose to.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    No, it won’t be mandatory for everyone.
    Maybe not. But that's the direction those who know how to manage infectious diseases are recommending. I certainly think it's the right thing to do, with some teeth in the mandates as well.

    Most states have laws requiring employers to take reasonable action to provide safe spaces for employees and customers. Mandatory masks would be a reasonable low-cost measure to take. And not taking reasonable measures is illegal.

    Tom
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    07-31-2021, 09:23 AM
    Hugh Conway
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    This message is hidden because Hugh Conway is on your ignore list.

    View Post


    Seems some people only come here to cause mischief ,division and name calling. The list grows.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: The unvaccinated are a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    But this thread title says the unvaccinated are the problem.

    From media this morning from the US, the CDC say 75% of Delta varient is from vaccinated people, and director Rochelle Wallensky is suggesting masks on fresh scientific data.....

    In Sweden this morning, Anders Tegnell says the varient has been in Sweden for some time with lettle effect. Sweden had just 8 Covid related deaths this month. Even the suggestion of wearing masks on public transported has now eneded, and was never mandated.

    Is it any wonder some people are confused when "the science" is suggesting different things?
    The areas with a high number of vaccinated people with covid are also areas where vaccination rates are high. The symptoms so far are far less serious for those that have been vaccinated, suggesting that the vaccines do work. The disease spreads but is less deadly. In a largely unvaccinated population the effects will likely be worse. The southern US, Florida in particular, may be a good example of that. Remains to be seen.
    Tom

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