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Thread: Simone Biles

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Ugh, what ugly narcissistic ignorant crap.
    + 1
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    what did I miss? That she was afraid of failure? I haven't read anything that changes what I wrote. Please enlighten me.
    See post #60. You also might click on the blue type in post #59.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    How many times, and by how many people, is the same thing said to Ted - quoting various sources of opinion and fact by people way more qualified than any hereabouts to opine on the situation - before it is realized that Ted does not reconsider, does not reassess, and does not believe that any other reality exists except the one that he has decided upon?

    Give it a break, folks; that horse is dead.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    :::

    Being nervous and fearful at the highest levels is understandable

    We will see what Biles does in the days ahead. In the end - She is being paid to perform with endorsements and ads.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-28-2021 at 07:50 PM.
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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Ted, as you know I do karate. Also a soloist musician - a singing teacher of mine would disparage instrumentalists for the cowardice of hiding behind an instrument, rather than standing naked as the instrument. Whatever. Of my 3 kids, 2 rowed, 2 are also black belts in martial arts, etc etc. Son-in-law is not only a black belt in another discipline,
    but an ER physician. Among us we know a fair bit about about putting oneself out there, performing despite fear. Controlling one's mind, finding a way through.

    Despite that, I respect Biles' choice. In part because I respect her self awareness, and the courage to decide to pull out knowing full well what criticism would be incoming .
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Tom thank you for sharing and insight. It take courage to say enough. being naked and vulnerable front of the world must be incredible pressure. I completely understand if the withdraws in a timely fashion. I just objecting to leaving her team flat footed so late with the notice. In my own life, I know when I do not have it. I sure try to let those who count on me know I am not able to give my best as soon for their benefit more than my own.
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  7. #77
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Looks like I made the right call.


    Ted Hoppe
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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Looks like I made the right call.

    D90A1815-1BB4-483B-A826-1FE3A0B3EE9E.jpg
    lol.
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Piers Morgan is like a yeast infection that just won't go away, no matter how hard you try. He is the nagging itch on humanity, who somehow always remains gainfully employed because the world, despite its seven wonders and occasional triumphs of humanity, is a cesspool of gossip and drama. He proved this yet again by taking to British gossip rag, The Daily Mail, to publicly harass Simone Biles after she withdrew from the finals of the individual gymnastics competition at the Olympics, taking a huge step forward for athletes everywhere protecting their mental health and demanding to be respected as people, not commodities

    https://www.mic.com/p/simone-biles-i...rtHAyiOD15nkBw

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I doubt that there was strategic premeditation. I think she just hit a wall unexpectedly. It is likely, though, that Osaka's recent actions helped her give herself permission. Which imo is entirely good. Ymmv.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    The team made silver. Could the team have made more if she had not withdrawn but had failed to perform? I doubt it.

    Whatever caused it - either she simply could not perform or she didn't want to perform any more. For whatever reason.

    Probably the toughest decision in her life, but her decision. Qualified for everything she could qualify for. Others have done similar decisions - think of Montessier. Without understanding the deeper reasons, I see absolutely no base for critizism. And even with understanding the reasons, it remains a personal decision to be respected. The team made silver nevertheless.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Piers Morgan is like a yeast infection that just won't go away, no matter how hard you try.
    Does it seem like he's gotten worse in recent years?
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    General rejoicing around here today; Sunisa Lee, local hero, a young Hmong-American woman from St Paul, took the individual gold. Although she's spectacularly good (well, they all are) she probably wouldn't have had Ms Biles not withdrawn.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Does it seem like he's gotten worse in recent years?
    Unconsciously mimicking your most despised algorithms, Morgan has identified what his audience liked in the past, and gives it to them in increasing dosages.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    When you can’t hack peoples phones you’ve got to resort to hackery to sell yourself.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    When you can’t hack peoples phones you’ve got to resort to hackery to sell yourself.
    Yeah. The trouble is when you've conceived yourself as a product or brand, which must continue to command market share.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Unconsciously mimicking your most despised algorithms, Morgan has identified what his audience liked in the past, and gives it to them in increasing dosages.
    That makes him a follower and not a leader. I suppose there is $$$ to be made in following loudly.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    That makes him a follower and not a leader. I suppose there is $$$ to be made in following loudly.
    Yeah. "Leading" is overrated, if your objective is financial .. or fame. Riskier too - it depends on followers being independently attracted to your view, while the other model relies on observing a trend and getting in front of it.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I wonder how many of us would feel, were this our daughter being discussed? For all this - whatever the topic - these are 'somebodies' kids and family.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    100%. A few posting on the thread either know athletes presently competing in Tokyo, or who have competed at elite levels before, or are otherwise similarly prominent perhaps in other fields. There are faces, personalities, actual grief and struggle reflected in these choices which aren't hypothetical.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  21. #91
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    piers who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Piers Morgan is like a yeast infection that just won't go away. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I wonder how many of us would feel, were this our daughter being discussed? For all this - whatever the topic - these are 'somebodies' kids and family.
    I find this whole thread way to touchy feely. To add gender as a concern into this only shows an old bias that has long left this cultural battle as every athlete at highest levels want to be held to the same standards regardless of sexual identity or sexual preference when participating in same gender events. An Olympic athlete is by definition a person who is superior in all things mental and physical in readiness with significant religious overtones that are older than Christianity. I do not doubt there is an intense mental health literacy program provided to top Olympic athletes, coaches and high-performance support staff that help to create a culture that values enhancing the mental health and wellbeing of all stakeholders which in turn creates best in sport. A mental collapse of a high performer is the flaw in ego, in training or wellbeing of the athlete not the sport or the culture which one who benefits in participating on the greatest world stage of recreational sports and recognized in high entertainment value.

    I found this article interesting concerning the subject.

    https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...lympic-athlete
    What it Takes to Be an Olympic Athlete

    Questions for Sport Psychologist Shane Murphy

    APA. What does it take psychologically to be an elite athlete? Is it all about training and natural gifts or is personality key?
    Dr. Murphy. That’s a great question, and if we knew the real answer, we’d be able to develop more Olympic champions. Definitely, talent is key. You need to have physical abilities to excel in a sport and speed, strength, endurance and coordination are vital. But determination is also a huge component of success. You have to love what you do in order to put in the roughly 10,000 hours of deliberate practice that Anders Ericsson’s famous research indicates is needed to become an expert. But I think many different types of personalities can become successful Olympians. Certainly we see a wide variety of personality types on the USA Olympic team.
    APA. Because the Olympics only come once every four years, how do athletes prepare themselves mentally for a one-shot deal? What are the levels of pressure and anxiety they feel during training?
    Dr. Murphy. It’s true that the fact of the Olympics coming only every four years places special pressures on all Olympic athletes, but these athletes are used to dealing with pressure. The World Cup circuit, the X Games – elite athletes constantly have to confront the demons of anxiety, fear of failure, and worry about injury. For the modern athlete, consistent mental training is as much a key to success as is great physical preparation. Throughout practice and training, part of their preparation is how to deal with big-event nerves. That’s why most Olympic sports have sport psychologists working with their coaches and athletes to help prepare for peak performance.
    But it’s fair to say that the Olympics places special pressure on most athletes. Of all sporting events, the Olympics come with the greatest pressure – nothing else matches it for gut-wrenching anxiety, not the Super Bowl, not the World Series, not Wimbledon or the Masters. It’s a combination of the once-every-four years pressure but also the intense nationalism of the Olympics. For athletes in many sports, it is only at the Olympics that they face the media blitz of worldwide attention. They toil in obscurity otherwise. Some athletes revel in the attention and perform their best under the pressure. Others come up far short of expectations when placed under this intense spotlight. That’s why you often see athletes perform much better at their second Olympics, once they have had a chance to experience the pressure and learn how to handle it.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-29-2021 at 02:26 PM. Reason: grammer
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  23. #93
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Kick her a couple of more times, you got her down now go for the kill.
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien tambiÚn" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

  24. #94
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Just an fyi, Ted - I'd say/feel the same way, were the gender male. Or older. Try 'kindness' on for size - you know, the 'golden rule'. Honestly, your current position isn't a good look for you.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    OK, I'm losing patience. Here's a bit from the NY Times today.
    Before Elena Mukhina broke her neck doing the Thomas salto, a skill so dangerous it is now banned, she told her coach she was going to break her neck doing the Thomas salto.

    But her coach responded dismissively that people like her did not break their necks, and Mukhina, a 20-year-old Soviet gymnast, didn’t feel she could refuse. Besides, she recalled later in an interview with the Russian magazine Ogoniok, she knew what the public expected of her as the anointed star of the coming Olympic Games.


    “I really wanted to justify the trust put in me and be a heroine,” she said.
    Mukhina landed on her chin in training a month before the 1980 Moscow games, and became a quadriplegic.

    Read the damned article. Hear the voices of Biles' colleagues and counterparts, and the stories of several other elite level international gymnasts who, while mentally strong, got "the twisties" and had catastrophic injuries.

    What, I asked (and maybe you ask) are "The Twisties?"

    It's a cute phrase for saying one's "lost the proprioception while in the air." The coach uses verbal cues as the gymnast learns specific skills, to help them learn what it feels like to be at this or that point in a rotation, when this or that speed or angle or transition is appropriate, etc. etc. Each of those aspects of a skill are practiced and practiced until it's in the body's muscle memory, and becomes automatic. With "the twisties," that's gone. You have no idea where your body is in the air, or where the ground is.

    One writer said to imagine that you've got some real talent driving a car, enough that you've become a pro on a national racing circuit. Now imagine that in the middle of a race, a car in front of you blows a tire and spins out - like has happened countless times before. Except this time, your muscle memory for using the clutch and stick has been deleted.

    I think that's wrong - because Biles herself is both the driver and the race car. What failed with "the twisties" is more like having the clutch and shifter controls un-bolt themselves right when the car in front of you spun out. And you don't know what caused the mechanical failure.

    The professional writer in me judges that Biles was imprecise in her statement of what went wrong. This isn't ordinary athletic "mental health" stuff like getting freaked out by a competitor's head games, or suffering performance anxiety. It's not clinical "mental health" like depression or mania. It's a physiological software glitch that's developed between the autonomic and the skeleto-muscular nervous systems.

    This isn't psychological, it's physiological.

    Given that, Biles would have been a fool to take her personal 4'11" leotard-wearing race car back out into competition without the chance to do a full once-over, and spend some serious time on the test track with her crew.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Did Ted lose a bet because of her?

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    That’s my take on it as well Tom. Did anyone, including her, expect that vault to go the way it did? Highly unlikely. I think she did what was best for the team under the circumstances, and they likely did better than had she competed.

    Love you Ted, but we can agree to disagree.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Just an fyi, Ted - I'd say/feel the same way, were the gender male. Or older. Try 'kindness' on for size - you know, the 'golden rule'. Honestly, your current position isn't a good look for you.
    I often write things to examine my own clarity on subjects. I often may take positions that are not reflective of my own opinions. Few people here will try on different shoes of others. Moreover fewer here will consider the other side nor work to understand how it came to be. Just because we come to our conclusions from decades of life experience and seeing different social experiences doesn't mean that some of those hard earned opinions are invalidated based on the potential of hurting feelings or any need to validate someone who may not agree. I respect everyone opinion even when it is opposed to mine, have no one on ignore and contemplate where they are coming from. I see the worst of people in my career choice as well as the best. When I shoot interviews, the news, working with the justice system or work with the public i see more than most and often at most the personal levels. I use this forum to deflect some of the emotionally draining things i see and hear in real life. No one is a harsher critic of me than I am to myself. Who I am here is often does not reflect who I am except I manage to do things I actively work hard to do and go meet those I want to meet rather than think i should wait, guess or take other peoples truths as facts. I have never been the one to pile on or find hurtful ways of forum humiliations that other relish here.

    George, I find your posts insightful and compatible to mine. I always read your input and give weight to them because of my respect for you. It does not have to be reciprocal but i do appreciate your view when you point out my failures to when I work to figure out this diverse mess we all have a hand in making.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-29-2021 at 03:38 PM.
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  29. #99
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Competing in the Olympics is 100% voluntary, even if you're Simone Biles. Maybe particularly for Simone Biles. If she says she needs to sit it out, who the **** are we to second-guess her? It's a pretty good bet that she knows more about gymnastics competition and her own state than just about everyone else on the planet put together.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy W View Post
    Did Ted lose a bet because of her?
    wait?! there's wagering on gymnastics???
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Imagine - a formula 1 driver. Having qualified for pool. Race day, warming lap, his vision is impaired. For whatever medical / whatever reason. Most sensible decision is to go into the pit lane and try to sort it. And if that does not work, not to start. Sinple as that. Tough decision, disappointed fans, media fuss, whatever - it is the sensible decision. If it was just an itch from a mosquito bite - he would stand on the pool position. But with impaired vision? No.

    Similar here - space time awareness gone - no way to go through the paces at anything resembling top performance. Any attempt would be unsensible risk.
    Last edited by Henning 4148; 07-29-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I find this whole thread way to touchy feely. To add gender as a concern into this only shows an old bias that has long left this cultural battle as every athlete at highest levels want to be held to the same standards regardless of sexual identity or sexual preference when participating in same gender events. An Olympic athlete is by definition a person who is superior in all things mental and physical in readiness with significant religious overtones that are older than Christianity. I do not doubt there is an intense mental health literacy program provided to top Olympic athletes, coaches and high-performance support staff that help to create a culture that values enhancing the mental health and wellbeing of all stakeholders which in turn creates best in sport. A mental collapse of a high performer is the flaw in ego, in training or wellbeing of the athlete not the sport or the culture which one who benefits in participating on the greatest world stage of recreational sports and recognized in high entertainment value.
    I can tell you for certain fact that for shotputter, discus throwers, hammer and javelin throwers, no such program exists.

    There is only one program and it looks like this:

    Untold hours in the weight room.
    Untold hours practicing on the field.
    Un-reimbursed trips to the best coaches you can find, for help. If you happen to break into the top seven in your event in the two years before the Olympics, you might get as much as $3500 to help with coaching and travel.
    Untold hours studying film
    untold hours visualizing every microcosm of every movement...untold hours drilling the minutest details of every motion

    The program is thousands and thousands and thousands of hours, over years, for essentially nothing, in terms of money, recognition or fame. The only people who know who you are, are your competitors and the people who came immediately before you, and will come immediately after you, in your sport.

    We all know who Simone Biles is. Maybe she gets mental health help. Maybe Usain Bolt got Mental Health help. Without checking, who can name the three female USA Discus throwers this year? For them, there is no Olympic Committee Mental Health Program. Maybe there is for some athletes.
    Last edited by Alan H; 07-29-2021 at 04:13 PM.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by garland reese View Post
    I cannot even begin to imagine the kind of fortitude and drive it would take to perform at the level she does, which is measurably higher than any other gymnast in the world, for as long as she has. Stacked on top of that the abuse she endured for years by that sorry excuse of a human being USA Gymnastics had as a team Dr. And she has been tops in the world for Years now.
    This young lady made a stellar decision. Had she stayed in the competition, she could very well have suffered a catastrophic injury. Being the senior, mentor, and leader of team, a string of troublesome performances from Simone would lhave weighed very heavily on the minds of her teammates. Instead, her choice served to inspire them, and allow them to focus on the competition.
    IMO, she is a Champion who is wise beyond her years.
    Yes, this.
    David G
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I suspect people do it to get their own opinion out there while pretending not to be a douche?
    Yes, entirely possible. Some people don't know any other way than 'sideway' passive-aggressive dissembling.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I admire Biles' move. She knows what's best for her survival. Severe injury due to not being mmntally sharp is always a possibility. One daughter, now in mid 40's was a High School State Champ Contender. I could never imagine the courage it took to fall off the beam from faulty back flips, breaking bones on landing badly on beam, then going out to try again after healing. Lot'ta mental stuff going on there, and there is only one person who knows the depths of that.

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