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Thread: Simone Biles

  1. #1
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    Default Simone Biles

    Can she be the greatest of all time if she let her team down? Thoughts?
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-28-2021 at 02:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    She didn't let her team down.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    It depends on what her mental health issues are as I believe that's why she dropped out. Real or imagined?
    We can't really know so I won't judge.
    It had to be a real let down for the other women on the team however.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Sheesh you lot! What she does in the air no one else can, and press and public expectations are greater pressure than the routines. It's her game not theirs, and she said she
    'lost her way' during a routine and was terrified of injuring herself. The fear factor. But good on her for walking away when she needed to. BTW remember she is the only survivor of the team's sexual assault scandal still competing, she's no shrinking violet.
    I can imagine what was being said on social media. We need a way of tracking such rubbish down.
    The same kind of abuse is being directed to Osaka in Japan. In the longer run social media will HAVE to be regulated, because of the way humans use it.
    We should not be surprised, humans are like that.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 07-28-2021 at 03:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Can she be the greatest of all time if she let her team down? Thoughts?
    Thoughts? Why is there always solicitation for other peoples judgements about other people?

    How does what she decides is right for her life, anything to do with you, or anyone else?

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Can she be the greatest of all time if she let her team down? Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    She didn't let her team down.
    This.
    I watched an interview on the BrrB news. She specifically stated that sh dropped out so that she would not let her team down.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Thoughts? Why is there always solicitation for other peoples judgements about other people?

    How does what she decides is right for her life, anything to do with you, or anyone else?
    I suspect people do it to get their own opinion out there while pretending not to be a douche?

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I'd never even heard of her until this post . Or rather knew nothing at all about her, only seen a couple of headlines in the last days but didn't bother to follow the story.

    Wikied her and astonishing how much stuff passes one by if the fundamental source is of no interest in the first place.

    Like the judge in the seventies who allegedly said ' What actually is the Beatles?'

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I cannot even begin to imagine the kind of fortitude and drive it would take to perform at the level she does, which is measurably higher than any other gymnast in the world, for as long as she has. Stacked on top of that the abuse she endured for years by that sorry excuse of a human being USA Gymnastics had as a team Dr. And she has been tops in the world for Years now.
    This young lady made a stellar decision. Had she stayed in the competition, she could very well have suffered a catastrophic injury. Being the senior, mentor, and leader of team, a string of troublesome performances from Simone would lhave weighed very heavily on the minds of her teammates. Instead, her choice served to inspire them, and allow them to focus on the competition.
    IMO, she is a Champion who is wise beyond her years.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    She doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone but herself. What she does takes guts. Stepping away as she did yesterday also takes incredible courage.

    I have nothing but respect for that courage and what she has accomplished.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    What if she had pulled a hamstring? Or twisted her ankle? Or inflamed a longstanding back injury? Imagine she was a hurdler or 200m sprinter who suddenly pulled up when a tendon snapped. Would people condemn her for letting the country down?

    What we are finally seeing is that mental health injuries are injuries too. And someone can live with and work through a chronic mental health injury, which suddenly flares up.

    With all we have heard of her narrative over the years - not limited to but including the sexual abuse she suffered as a member of the elite gymnastics program, and her public profile during and after the Nasser trial ... anyone think that she *hasn't* got mental health injuries from her gymnastics career?

    Biles doesn't owe us anything. Quite the reverse, I think.
    Last edited by TomF; 07-28-2021 at 06:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    She didn't let her team down.


    I am not trying to be argumentative, but she did let her team down. In so doing, she showed there can be a time when that is OK; that even at the pinnacle of competition , and on a world stage, taking care of yourself is important.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    The one criticism that gains a bit of traction with me is not that she owes the public/audience anything, but that her obligation to participate is owed to the last gymnast who didn't make the cut for the team.

    The traction gained is purely on a general-principle basis. In reality, in this particular case, there is NO WAY that USA Gymnastics or whatever other powers-that-be were going to not have Biles on the team, and I suspect that the last-cut gymnast recognizes this as well.
    What color are their hands now?

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    Default Simone Biles

    Had she go on to compete and performed poorly she would have been letting the team down. Realizing that she was not able to perform at her best allowed the team to score higher than they would have with her. It took guts to withdraw if she felt she could not do it, and I believe that was in the best interest of the team. Far from letting them down.


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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Read someone on Twitter last night who observed that Biles' vault score was so low that it virtually ensured that the American team could not take the gold - and that subsequent performances at that level would have likely knocked the American team off the podium entirely.

    In that light, Biles' withdrawal was the choice which best put the team's interests forward. Not merely a choice which was protective for Biles herself.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Had she go on to compete and performed poorly she would have been letting the team down. Realizing that she was not able to perform at her best allowed the team to score higher than they would have with her. It took guts to withdraw if she felt she could not do it, and I believe that was in the best interest of the team. Far from letting them down.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Read someone on Twitter last night who observed that Biles' vault score was so low that it virtually ensured that the American team could not take the gold - and that subsequent performances at that level would have likely knocked the American team off the podium entirely.

    In that light, Biles' withdrawal was the choice which best put the team's interests forward. Not merely a choice which was protective for Biles herself.
    Both observations are spot on. It was actually a very selfless decision.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    I'd never even heard of her until this post . Or rather knew nothing at all about her, only seen a couple of headlines in the last days but didn't bother to follow the story.

    Wikied her and astonishing how much stuff passes one by if the fundamental source is of no interest in the first place.

    Like the judge in the seventies who allegedly said ' What actually is the Beatles?'
    Same thoughts here. I think it was half a year ago I first googled up a video of her and was blown away.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    We're all tempted with what tempted Achilles. That one's name will live on, for centuries. But the tradeoff is no life now.

    We remember Achilles, or at least the name. I suspect he didn't look much like Brad Pitt, and probably moved differently too. And outside of Hollywood, he's remembered as kinda a sociopath.

    Better to embody the closing sentence of Middlemarch, imo.
    "But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs."
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Won’t be popular amongst the NARPs (Non-Athletic, Regular People), but I think she should have taken the L.

    Games like this demand we be sports, and sports compete; even when we KNOW we will lose. The “shame” in losing is created in the minds of non-participants; “fans”.

    Lord knows I have taken an absolute shelling because it was not my day. I’ve competed with broken bones and a broken head; and a broken heart. Stupid? Yes. Sporting? Maybe.
    Worth it? Absolutely not. The price I am paying now is far too high, even if I HAD won some more fantastic medals.

    The real problem with all this is the entire GOAT bull****. Greatest? Bull****. Pure bull****. Too much pressure on these kids. Because, they’re kids.

    Nobody is ever the greatest of all time. Someone greater WILL come along.

    Will.

    I mean, remember Nadia? Mary Lou? The last Golden Gymnast they used up? Shawn something?
    Maybe if she was competing individually, but as part of a team she owed it to the team to withdraw if she would hurt their chances. If she is competing for the US and knows she cannot perform then she absolutely did the right thing if it improved their chances for medaling. We all know what she can be capable of, but only she knows whether or not she can obtain those results at that time/place.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Man it’s amazing how MAGA world can marshall hate for a black woman.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Pretty sharp to quit while she was ahead...

    edit: meaning not injured

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Sheesh.

    Someone works for years & years, suffers all sorts of injuries and even sexual abuse & people want to give her a hard time for dropping out when she & the team needed her to.

    Suppose it were a rower on an eight & #5 knew he was not rowing to potential. The team has alternates for just this situation & #5 stepping aside for an alternate would be viewed as taking a huge personal sacrifice for the good of the team.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Pretty sharp to quit while she was ahead...

    edit: meaning not injured

    Not only 'not injured' - but also, before any further performance may have had irreparable harm to her team mates efforts. Selfless.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    I understand and respect her decision, made on the basis of her own mental health, and what's good for the team. However, I have to wonder about the first alternate gymnast, who didn't make the team. That young lady has worked her butt off for years, recovered from injuries, trained, sweated, cried and put her life into gymnastics. If Simone had made this decision two months ago, that young lady would be in Tokyo, now.

    Maybe she couldn't make that decision two months ago. Maybe she hadn't "gotten there", yet. The pressure cooker of the public eye is an awful thing.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Biles, the anchor and captain of the American of her team gave no indication of her decision to pull out. She did it last minute and gave her replacement little prep time . Remarkably the replacement was ok despite doing little in the warm ups. At 24, she is no child. Moreover her contractual celebratory obligations with the advertisers and sponsors were met for the heats. As someone who notices commercial endorsements and product/brand placement, the Biles tv ads stopped adding to the controversy.

    I am going with Robs assessment. Rather than face the loss in world veiw, the woman who wears little gold goats on her workout leotards checked out without notice rather than prove how great one is in a loss as well as in victory. We are greatest in our human failures in attempts not in our victories. Quitting abruptly shows much about character and does not have anything to do with talent.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    My gut leads me to think much like Ted and Rob. BUT.

    I'm not an Olympic athlete. I'm not a gymnast and I'm not anybody who walks prominently in the public eye. I really have no basis on which to judge anything.

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Yeah.

    I apologize for speaking.

    As a person with relative experience, and with a friend who JUST lost out on a gold medal in the SAME Olympics, I just added a perspective most of you don’t have.

    But, yeah.

    Anyway. I’m done making an ass of myself for the day.

    Toodles.

    ETA: regarding this post. There is an actual human being we will have to console about missing a Gold; a team player. Real tears and hugs, and real celebration over a silver medal.
    None of this is abstract in my world.
    Hey Rob -

    Not sure why you're apologizing? I guess I also don't understand what you are saying & would like to. Back in the day I got close to being an Olympian, & have regretted some of the choices I made for 50 years.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Biles, the anchor and captain of the American of her team gave no indication of her decision to pull out. She did it last minute and gave her replacement little prep time . Remarkably the replacement was ok despite doing little in the warm ups. At 24, she is no child. Moreover her contractual celebratory obligations with the advertisers and sponsors were met for the heats. As someone who notices commercial endorsements and product/brand placement, the Biles tv ads stopped adding to the controversy.

    I am going with Robs assessment. Rather than face the loss in world veiw, the woman who wears little gold goats on her workout leotards checked out without notice rather than prove how great one is in a loss as well as in victory. We are greatest in our human failures in attempts not in our victories. Quitting abruptly shows much about character and does not have anything to do with talent.
    So it would have been better to take the team out with her? If she did compete and performed poorly that silver medal they now hold may not have happened. Was anyone expecting her to have a poor vault performance? Was even she expecting that? I don’t think anyone anticipated that happening, including her and she obviously felt like that one mishap wasn’t a fluke and that she was hurting the teams chances at that time. Is it unfortunate for the first alternate? Sure. But I don’t think it had anything to do with endorsement contracts or otherwise, but maybe I’m not cynical enough.
    In the teams I managed, though never sports related, I still wanted the best performers I could get, and trusted them when they said they weren’t up to the task, especially when the outcome was really dependent on team efforts.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I wasn’t trying to attack any one, and especially a young lady.

    I just wanted to offer an opinion that is somewhat informed, as regards high level competition. I know more than a few world and Olympic champions, and I have competed at a high level, myself, so I have an insight into ONE way of seeing this.

    I may have mentioned competing injured? I’ve jumped in a competition concussed and with a broken wrist. I’ve raced downhill with a broken ankle. Ran races with sprains and fractures. Competed in an event the day my friend was murdered.

    When you sacrifice every other aspect of a normal life, it’s different.

    My attitude may be tempered by the fact I have always been a relatively uncompensated, unsuccessful never was and also ran, but the collective attitudes of my “camp” are something I can share.

    But, I know I’m just a dude, and who gives a ****, really. I have a tendency to run on, and would be better off, likely, if I just learned to STFU.

    Of course,Mimi also dealing with a kid who has absolutely crumbled from similar pressures. Because, probably more than anyone else here, I truly understand the pressures these athletes feel.

    And, I promise I respect them and their work as much as anyone.
    I appreciate your input Rob, and I don’t have your perspective for sure. My cousin was in the 2004 olympics so I know some of the sacrifice made, though certainly not like you do. I’d be interested to hear his perspective.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Much ado about nothing.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    So it would have been better to take the team out with her? If she did compete and performed poorly that silver medal they now hold may not have happened. Was anyone expecting her to have a poor vault performance? Was even she expecting that? I don’t think anyone anticipated that happening, including her and she obviously felt like that one mishap wasn’t a fluke and that she was hurting the teams chances at that time. Is it unfortunate for the first alternate? Sure. But I don’t think it had anything to do with endorsement contracts or otherwise, but maybe I’m not cynical enough.
    In the teams I managed, though never sports related, I still wanted the best performers I could get, and trusted them when they said they weren’t up to the task, especially when the outcome was really dependent on team efforts.
    She is not a regular athlete but the premiere anchor and team captain of the USA, a highly skilled team made of professionals and talented selectively chosen individuals. Biles took the mantle and profited immensely personally from it. She left her team on the world stage without notice on site. The team scrambled to fill her spot. She returned after someone reminded her of her image and maybe her livelihood. If a team lead, a prized member of yours did that in full dramatic view in front of clients and observers your respect for them would be diminished. Bowing out gracefully and with notice is a sign of class not failure. Being mature enough to do it takes more courage and respect than many egos can handle.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-28-2021 at 12:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Nice that we're able to disagree.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Putting GOAT on your leotard in Zhovarsky crystals means you better damn well deliver the goods. When her mouth made promises her body couldn’t deliver the pressure (self induced) became to much.
    She is (was) part of a team.
    I see other US athletes collecting medals, competing and enjoying themselves. The surfing competition was great to see. The young lady that won gold was incredibly gracious in her win, a huge credit to her nation beyond just the medal.
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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    She is terrific and every interview I see of her is a thoughtful woman with surprisingly little ego.

    If she didn't feel up to competing, then so be it. She owes it to herself to take care of herself first and foremost.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: Simone Biles

    Thanks Rob!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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