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Thread: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

  1. #1
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    Default What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    https://flip.it/zhd2Si

    Good guys with rocks.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    How very Biblical.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    When rocks are outlawed...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Very much so.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but 4 times more mass shootings were stopped by citizens rushing the shooter than shooting the shooter.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    ^ Very interesting plot. I would never have guessed half those statistics.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    A quote from Gloria Steinem, from a meme I just saw this morning (but can't figure out how to import here.)

    How about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion—mandatory forty-eight hour waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor providing he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence.

    Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    ^ spot on
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    “gardening stones” not just any rock.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Restraint please, next time this happens. Stone him half to death so he spends the rest of his pitiable life in prison, cut his hands off too if we are being doctrinaly middle eastern

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    A quote from Gloria Steinem, from a meme I just saw this morning (but can't figure out how to import here.)
    Ms. Steinem nails it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Not, for a second, knocking Ms Steinems views , but how about closing down every single gunshop- Are there any, any in England, ? in Portugal, ? I'm sure its possible to legally buy a certain firearm in either country, but gun 'shops'...?
    I'd guess shotguns , to cater to farmers, hunters and sportsmen, ...correct me if I'm wrong .
    Hey Darlin, I'm just popping down the high street to pick up a six pack and the dog food and a couple of boxes of 9mm and a handgun or two...anything you need ?
    yeah get me twenty fags and a Glock while your there.

    I've been binge watching a netflix serial . So far 3rd season, 30 or so episodes. Good acting, clever plot twists, a certain possible subliminal message about societal issues, but over all that , I don't think there's been a single episode without detailed and graphic 'gun use' good blokes, bad blokes. bam bam you're dead the whole way through. I was watching cowboys and indians , second world war films from an early age, you just did, but somehow it didn't form part of most brits' lifestyle.
    Whats goin' on America,?

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    I don't think there's been a single episode without detailed and graphic 'gun use' good blokes, bad blokes. bam bam you're dead the whole way through. . . .
    What's goin' on America,?
    Don't confuse movies with reality. We've got plenty of problems with guns, but in my 65 years I have never once seen a gun fired, and I haven't lived a particularly sheltered life. (OTOH, I've lived mostly in northern cities.)
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    Restraint please, next time this happens. Stone him half to death so he spends the rest of his pitiable life in prison, cut his hands off too if we are being doctrinaly middle eastern
    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    Not, for a second, knocking Ms Steinems views , but how about closing down every single gunshop- Are there any, any in England, ? in Portugal, ? I'm sure its possible to legally buy a certain firearm in either country, but gun 'shops'...?
    I'd guess shotguns , to cater to farmers, hunters and sportsmen, ...correct me if I'm wrong .
    Hey Darlin, I'm just popping down the high street to pick up a six pack and the dog food and a couple of boxes of 9mm and a handgun or two...anything you need ?
    yeah get me twenty fags and a Glock while your there.

    I've been binge watching a netflix serial . So far 3rd season, 30 or so episodes. Good acting, clever plot twists, a certain possible subliminal message about societal issues, but over all that , I don't think there's been a single episode without detailed and graphic 'gun use' good blokes, bad blokes. bam bam you're dead the whole way through. I was watching cowboys and indians , second world war films from an early age, you just did, but somehow it didn't form part of most brits' lifestyle.
    Whats goin' on America,?
    Exactly what do you know, or presume to know, about this incident? The police are still investigating.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Don't confuse movies with reality. We've got plenty of problems with guns, but in my 65 years I have never once seen a gun fired, and I haven't lived a particularly sheltered life. (OTOH, I've lived mostly in northern cities.)
    Do you mean that statement about having never seen a gun fired literally, i.e., at all?

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    I haven't personally seen one shot in anger, intentionally at a human or intended to intimidate a human. Except on video etc. in news reports.

    Hunting though? Target shooting? I've done bits of that myself, in the past. And in principle could see myself doing so again, if some circumstances shift.

    I don't think that's so different from most Canadians.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Haven’t actually seen one shot in anger but seen them pulled out in poker games, bars, parties, on the highway. One of my co workers waved one at me on the road once, jokingly I suppose, but he was a typical redneck dumbass. Ended up shooting another employee a few years later after an incident on the company bus. Followed them when they left the lot and shot at them on the highway. I knew as soon as I heard the report about a mechanic shooting someone who it was. It was an easy guess that the victim was black too.
    Tom

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Ridiculous. Not that you saw it, but that it occurred.

    Unconscionable, ridiculous behaviour.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    Haven’t actually seen one shot in anger but seen them pulled out in poker games, bars, parties, on the highway. One of my co workers waved one at me on the road once, jokingly I suppose, but he was a typical redneck dumbass. Ended up shooting another employee a few years later after an incident on the company bus. Followed them when they left the lot and shot at them on the highway. I knew as soon as I heard the report about a mechanic shooting someone who it was. It was an easy guess that the victim was black too.
    Never did like riding that bus.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Don't confuse movies with reality. We've got plenty of problems with guns, but in my 65 years I have never once seen a gun fired, and I haven't lived a particularly sheltered life. (OTOH, I've lived mostly in northern cities.)
    sounds pretty sheltered
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    sounds pretty sheltered
    ...
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien también" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Exactly what do you know, or presume to know, about this incident? The police are still investigating.
    I should expect exactly what you know or presume to know .....mainstream media that caught my attention . erudite stuff,, not Bild, not the daily Mail, ...the BBC world service I think, Al Jazeera ,the opening post,and its link
    what's your defensive attitude for?

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    A quote from Gloria Steinem, from a meme I just saw this morning (but can't figure out how to import here.)
    Excellent point. I like her thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    Are there any, any in England, ? in Portugal, ? I'm sure its possible to legally buy a certain firearm in either country, but gun 'shops'...?
    I'd guess shotguns , to cater to farmers, hunters and sportsmen, ...correct me if I'm wrong.
    Yup, lots of gun shops around in the UK, mainly in out-of town areas and catering to those you list above. They don't have big signs on the front saying 'Gun Shop' and you can't just rock up, shell out some cash and leave with some military-grade automatic weapon, but shotguns are available to those who are OK with jumping though the hoops required to get one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    One of my co workers waved one at me on the road once, jokingly I suppose, but he was a typical redneck dumbass
    I worked in an off-licence (liquor store) in London whilst I was a student and had a gun pulled on me during an armed robbery late one evening. The truth is I'd never seen a real handgun before in my life and so initially it didn't seem that what was happening was terribly real. People don't have handguns in London - well, certainly not in Chelsea anyway.

    By the time it sank in that it was actually happening, it had also become apparent that both the two robbers and the two of us in the shop had a single common goal which was to get this over with as quickly as possible and with a minimum of fuss. They emptied the tills and the safe in the back, took the dummy CCTV video that was in the office and were out in five minutes.

    My particular situation de-escalated very quickly simply because, having waved their gun about for long enough to show that they were in charge, it was put away and they got on with what they set out to do.

    When the police showed up we gave them the real CCTV video from the recorder in the cellar. The robbers 'did over' three other booze shops in the two weeks after ours. They were picked up shortly after that.

    I guess I mention all this as I read an article on the BBC today (which I can no longer find) where it was mentioned that a policeman in the US shot and killed someone within ten seconds of leaving his police car.

    It's a genuinely sad state of affairs when it has to be assumed that everyone is an armed threat that is best neutralised rather than negotiated with.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Do you mean that statement about having never seen a gun fired literally, i.e., at all?

    can't answer for him , but although I use firearms as tools, apart from my desire to do it properly and learn, at a gun club, I too have never ever seen a gun fired except outings with other food gatherers. and nearly always rabbitting.
    my arsenal, tools. a .22 pistol for despatching the dinner pig or ancient sick pets. a Belgian .22 over and under a .410 shotgun for pigeons and the occassional long distance rabbit., recently got rid of the 12 bore. unnecessary, and useless after about fifty metres and too loud

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    I should expect exactly what you know or presume to know .....mainstream media that caught my attention . erudite stuff,, not Bild, not the daily Mail, ...the BBC world service I think, Al Jazeera ,the opening post,and its link
    what's your defensive attitude for?
    No defensive attitude; a little irritation, perhaps. I wondered what, as a European, you considered to be the likely demographics of the participants in this incident, since there were no names mentioned, only neighborhood location. Do you have an opinion?

    Of course, if you consider firearms, or the Constitutional right to own them, to be the root problem, then such things as poverty or culture are irrelevant and can be safely ignored in evaluating the social equation.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    No defensive attitude; a little irritation, perhaps. I wondered what, as a European, you considered to be the likely demographics of the participants in this incident, since there were no names mentioned, only neighborhood location. Do you have an opinion?

    Of course, if you consider firearms, or the Constitutional right to own them, to be the root problem, then such things as poverty or culture are irrelevant and can be safely ignored in evaluating the social equation.
    Minnesota’s gun ownership rate is about average for the us and the state has a long hunting history, but culturally hasn’t had much of the outre gun insanity. It’s just a tool, not a totem.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Minnesota’s gun ownership rate is about average for the us and the state has a long hunting history, but culturally hasn’t had much of the outre gun insanity. It’s just a tool, not a totem.
    What makes Minnesotans different? (Other than that they're above average? )

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    What makes Minnesotans different? (Other than that they're above average? )
    That's just the kids...

    Vermont is much the same - we have next to no gun laws & don't seem to have much in the way of issues. Rural states where folks mostly grew up with guns maybe?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    No defensive attitude; a little irritation, perhaps. I wondered what, as a European, you considered to be the likely demographics of the participants in this incident, since there were no names mentioned, only neighborhood location. Do you have an opinion?

    Of course, if you consider firearms, or the Constitutional right to own them, to be the root problem, then such things as poverty or culture are irrelevant and can be safely ignored in evaluating the social equation.
    I have no interest in the demographics of this incident, If you mean statistical analysis of race, gender, societal standing, I have no knowledge from the news items I read, and honestly I couldn't give a flying feck either. and as a yurpean I have no knowledge of the location without internet research and i'm not interested in that nor have the time or inclination to go further.
    And yes , from being reasonably aquainted with some aspects of USA life, least of all being a participant on this forum for ten years, ( my little hit of americana) I can't help but think that maybe this bull**** idea 'firearms , or the constitutional right to own them is , so utterlly unnecessary as demonstrated by almost all other first world countries, ..sorry but the policemen of the world or somesuch nonsense just makes your arguments laughable. wake up and look around at your wonderful society. why isn't it compusory to give your babies assault weapons in the crib, they are going to get them sooner later.

    Apologies for tarring some with the same brush, but really....
    Honestly I could not care less. Go ahead and kill each other maybe its natural selection. My previous comment about the stoning incident is reactionary, honest and maybe not so smart, and only faulty if they stoned the wrong bloke

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    I have no interest in the demographics of this incident, If you mean statistical analysis of race, gender, societal standing, I have no knowledge from the news items I read, and honestly I couldn't give a flying feck either. and as a yurpean I have no knowledge of the location without internet research and i'm not interested in that nor have the time or inclination to go further.
    Well, there ya go. I assure you that on this side of the Atlantic, politicians and the general citizenry are highly aware, and, for various reasons, concerned about the disparity of behavior of various demographic populations, the reasons for these differences, and what it will take to make positive changes. (The last half century hasn't been particularly successful.)

    And yes , from being reasonably aquainted with some aspects of USA life, least of all being a participant on this forum for ten years, ( my little hit of americana) I can't help but think that maybe this bull**** idea 'firearms , or the constitutional right to own them is , so utterlly unnecessary as demonstrated by almost all other first world countries, ..sorry but the policemen of the world or somesuch nonsense just makes your arguments laughable. wake up and look around at your wonderful society. why isn't it compusory to give your babies assault weapons in the crib, they are going to get them sooner later.
    Please don't be unnecessarily silly.

    Apologies for tarring some with the same brush, but really....
    Honestly I could not care less. Go ahead and kill each other maybe its natural selection. My previous comment about the stoning incident is reactionary, honest and maybe not so smart, and only faulty if they stoned the wrong bloke
    "I apologize for my general superiority...."

    No need. Differences of opinion make life interesting.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by kgr1 View Post
    Well, there ya go. I assure you that on this side of the Atlantic, politicians and the general citizenry are highly aware, and, for various reasons, concerned about the disparity of behavior of various demographic populations, the reasons for these differences, and what it will take to make positive changes. (The last half century hasn't been particularly successful.)

    Please don't be unnecessarily silly.

    "I apologize for my general superiority...."
    apology accepted.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    "I apologize for my general superiority...."
    apology accepted.
    Ohhh-kay, then.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    That's just the kids...

    Vermont is much the same - we have next to no gun laws & don't seem to have much in the way of issues. Rural states where folks mostly grew up with guns maybe?
    im sure that’s part of it. Part of it too though is people in places like Virginia for a long time weren’t raised to love the United States - as a yankee it’s hard to understand the veneration of traitors, the celebration of war criminals, and the impact of massive resistance which meant even after it was over so called “meritocratic” schooling was designed to exclude minorities.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    The disparity in citizen response to mass shooters isn't so surprising. Even in states without restrictive firearm laws, probably there are a lot less than 25% of the population carrying guns.

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    Default Re: What it takes to stop a bad guy with a gun…

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    The disparity in citizen response to mass shooters isn't so surprising. Even in states without restrictive firearm laws, probably there are a lot less than 25% of the population carrying guns.
    Might depend on the particular population sample studied, but overall probably very much less than a tenth of your guesstimate.

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