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Thread: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    You voted for Biden, what did you expect?
    Paul, I’m curious, how specifically did a vote for President Biden affect our gas price?
    O
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    $4.23 in tax in Sweden for petrol/gas.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Good point on the fixed tax rate, Lee. I was simply going by the condition of the local roads
    There’s a weird belief in this country that we should be insulated from the world oil market, that there should be no constraints on oil consumption except one’s ability to pay and that the cost of maintenance let alone upgrades to transportation have not changed in nearly 30 yrs. Hell Reagan, Bush Sr and Clinton all used the fuel tax to help offset deficit spending and now the free lunch crowd has so indoctrinated the country that Biden is scared to reconcile fed fuel taxes.
    We had numerous opportunities to address this and blew it.
    Oh well, the grandkids can deal with it.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Like some others I find gas to be ridiculously cheap. But there are those who find it difficult to get by regardless of the cost of gas.

    Higher gas prices might be better for the environment, but worse for the poor.

    Maybe we should get rid of casual travel by trains, planes, and automobiles.
    Life is complex.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    The people with shares in Exxon and Aramco salute your indifference to excessive consumption.
    Actually his piloting an aircraft is doing actual work. The general pattern of consumption in the US is something the US gov’t has encouraged just as EU countries did the opposite after the ‘73 oil crisis. Everytime new world supplies came on line and we could afford greater consumption we did. When we can’t we don’t.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Let's shut down a few more pipelines in the US, perhaps Putin might cut you a deal from his new pipeline, courtesy of your president.
    Brilliant observation!

    We drill for oil and make gas here in SoCal. We don't need no stinkin' pipeline.

    I saw $4.79 a gal down the street yesterday. How many more pipelines will it take for us to get our price down below $3.00 like the serious gas production states like Alabama and Mississippi?
    Schooner sailors love to get blown offshore!

  7. #42
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    I remember buying a hamburger. fries and a soda for 50 cents and gas for 23 cents a gallon. Those days are long gone. So compared with Steak at $16.00 a pound and hamburger a at $5 bucks a pound Gas is cheap. Compare it to bottled water.
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien también" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

  8. #43
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Actually his piloting an aircraft is doing actual work. The general pattern of consumption in the US is something the US gov’t has encouraged just as EU countries did the opposite after the ‘73 oil crisis. Everytime new world supplies came on line and we could afford greater consumption we did. When we can’t we don’t.
    I never mentioned the fuel consumed while doing a productive job, but due to the amount of fuel consumed while doing said job, has left him with a "what difference does it make" attitude."

    I worked on a ship with 10x the consumption of the aircraft he flies, so should i think nothing of driving a HumVee to the local shop instead of a push bike? Blaming our choices on externals is not taking responsibility for the things we DO have a choice over.

  9. #44
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    Default

    Its averaging maybe $3.20/ gal round here. One place nearby is 299.9 though. I go there.

    Plus, i get at least .15 discount per gallon, thanks to the points programs Im in.

    Last week, I had . 65 discount.

    Kevin


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  10. #45
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    I never mentioned the fuel consumed while doing a productive job, but due to the amount of fuel consumed while doing said job, has left him with a "what difference does it make" attitude."

    I worked on a ship with 10x the consumption of the aircraft he flies, so should i think nothing of driving a HumVee to the local shop instead of a push bike? Blaming our choices on externals is not taking responsibility for the things we DO have a choice over.
    In Sweden if you had a choice between one gas station that sold fuel for $5.80 a gallon and another across the street that sold it for $2.80 a gallon which would you choose? Your gov’t made that choice for you. Ours encouraged consumption.

    Check this out. This is how to reduce oil consumption but it’ll take a much more severe pandemic.


    Last edited by LeeG; 07-24-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    PFFFFT You guys are funny

    I have 4 diesel vans, a service van, and 2 vespa's
    The diesel vans are filled 2X a week each for about $90
    The service van once a week about $60
    Vespa's about $5 each a week

    So my weekly fuel bill is this
    ($90 X 2 ) x 4 = $720
    $770 + $60 = $780
    $780 + $10 = $790

    So I pay roughly $800 a week for fuel


    But, unlike most of us, you make money on the fuel you burn. More fuel means more doggies sheared, basically, no?

    Kevin


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  12. #47
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Smoke View Post
    Paul, I’m curious, how specifically did a vote for President Biden affect our gas price?
    It's an oppertunity..gas is up, Biden's fault, meat prices up, Biden's fault, plumber charging more, Biden. The right pushes the naratie because it is all the have. their newest troll doll.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Smoke View Post
    Paul, I’m curious, how specifically did a vote for President Biden affect our gas price?
    It's an oppertunity..gas is up, Biden's fault, meat prices up, Biden's fault, plumber charging more, Biden.; The right pushes the narrative because it is all the have. their newest troll doll. Did you expect it to be reality based?

  14. #49
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Basically we’d rather pass the task of building a low fossil fuel transportation infrastructure to the next generation cuz it would mean sacrificing what we’ve become accustomed to.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/trans...l-gas-tax-faq/


    By
    Ian Duncan
    June 11, 2021 at 1:55 p.m. EDT
    A bipartisan group of senators involved in a new round of infrastructure spending discussions raised the idea of tying the federal gas tax to inflation as one way to help pay for their $1 trillion proposal — a suggestion that could lead to the first changes to the tax since 1993.
    The group, composed of moderate Republicans and Democrats, is assembling a package to fund roads, bridges, pipes and Internet connections, people familiar with their negotiations told The Washington Post on Thursday.
    .
    .
    The government historically has used gas taxes to pay for investments in highways and transit systems through the Highway Trust Fund. The tax was last increased in 1993 and set at 18.4 cents per gallon. Diesel is taxed at 24.4 cents. Together, the taxes brought in about $36.5 billion in 2019, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Other taxes on trucking raised an additional $6.9 billion. In 2019, 13 percent of the money was allocated to transit and the rest went to highways.
    .
    .
    The purchasing power of the gas tax has been reduced dramatically since 1993 as the costs of building roads have increased and vehicles have become more fuel efficient. Indexing the tax, meaning it would rise along with the cost of living, would help revenue keep up with spending. It’s an approach many states already take.
    .
    .
    Jeff Davis, a fellow at the Eno Center for Transportation, a policy analysis group, estimates the tax would need to be more than doubled in the coming years to cover the costs of a $547 billion transportation bill advancing in the House.
    Is anyone in Washington proposing those kinds of big increases?
    Not really, no. Some industry groups have expressed support for increasing the tax by a few cents, but lawmakers have shown little interest. The Biden administration has been clear it would consider an increase to be a violation of its pledge not to increase taxes on families making less than $400,000 a year.
    .
    That opposition led Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), long a staunch supporter of raising the gas tax, to conclude it was time to move on.
    “Let’s just not beat our heads against the wall for something that is not going to happen,” Blumenauer said. “We ought to start now accelerating the transition to a different system.”
    .
    .
    Biden’s proposal looks beyond fees on travel entirely. He has called for increasing corporate taxes to pay for infrastructure proposals, something Republicans don’t support.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post

    Maybe we should get rid of casual travel by trains, planes, and automobiles.
    Yeah, that will go over well. People already sick of masks and lockdowns to the point of violence. Now prohibit their ability to travel.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  16. #51
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Fuel per passenger mile is very good, so I'm led to believe . . .
    110 passengers (usually full now), 440 knots in cruise. Based on 6.8# per gallon we actually average about 880g/hr.
    So yeah, the passenger MPG is pretty good.

    We typically use 100 pounds per minute on the 717 for estimation purposes as we don’t ever use gallons on turbine aircraft. It’s a conservative, round number.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 07-24-2021 at 03:35 PM.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Screenshot_20210724-221113_Chrome.jpg

    Here the taxes are 57 %...
    So the E5 reaches 7usd a gallon.
    For my bigger cars ( 5,7 l tahoe and 5 l Merco)
    I use E85, wich is almost untaxed at 0,65€ a liter so 2,80 Usd per gallon.
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 07-24-2021 at 03:46 PM.
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Gas 1960's about $.25/ Gal....2021 about $3.13/Gal VW 1960's $1200-$1500 VW 2021 About $30000+ Gas about 12 times more expensive....1960's VWx12=about $12000 to $18000. Can you buy a new VW for $12-18K? Gas is quite inexpensive compared to what it is going into.
    \"Of all the things I\'ve lost, I miss my mind the most.\"

  19. #54
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Like some others I find gas to be ridiculously cheap. But there are those who find it difficult to get by regardless of the cost of gas.

    Higher gas prices might be better for the environment, but worse for the poor.

    Maybe we should get rid of casual travel by trains, planes, and automobiles.
    Rattling the teacups.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    I never mentioned the fuel consumed while doing a productive job, but due to the amount of fuel consumed while doing said job, has left him with a "what difference does it make" attitude."

    I worked on a ship with 10x the consumption of the aircraft he flies, so should i think nothing of driving a HumVee to the local shop instead of a push bike? Blaming our choices on externals is not taking responsibility for the things we DO have a choice over.
    Hey if it flips your trigger to drive a Hummer go for it. You wanna ride a push bike? That’s cool too. It’s up to you. Since it’s a 57 mile drive for me to get to an airport to get a flight to actually get to where I’m based neither would be terribly practical for me.

    My Honda Ridgeline with its 3.5 liter V6 gets about 27mpg highway. Compared to most pickups here in the US that is quite good. I chose the smaller truck as it does what I need it to do and didn’t need a full size truck. Can’t stand the way they drive either.
    My 24’ Superboat with a Mercury 300XS gets @ 4.5 mpg at a 42mph cruise. Compared to most other boats around here that is quite good as Well. It’s a very light, simple boat for its length.
    So maybe compared to Sweden these may seem excessive, but here not at all.

    Now if somebody comes out with a sanely priced, 2 seat electric convertible sports car I’d be all over that. Say at least 400 mile range, sub 3 second 0-60. The Ridgeline would get driven a lot less.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  21. #56
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    I seem to recall that the whole point of the Keystone XL pipeline was to get oil to the coast where it could be sold overseas - it wouldn’t have reduced our gas prices.

    I have a friend who works for several refineries here in the L.A. area. She says they have practically shut down due to the reduced demand from COVID. As demand rises there will be a lag in production, ergo higher prices.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    But, unlike most of us, you make money on the fuel you burn. More fuel means more doggies sheared, basically, no?

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Ummmm NO

    What you're saying is that every time they raise fuel prices we raise our service prices accordingly ? Because we don't. Do you know what it takes to just raise your prices every couple of years ?
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  23. #58
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    So Joe, how would you adapt to a $1/liter carbon tax doubling your fuel costs?

    Obviously the competition would be paying it too.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post

    Higher gas prices might be better for the environment, but worse for the poor.
    Because the poor are immune to droughts, heat waves, floods, and rising sea levels?

    Or because the poor of the world all drive cars to work?

  25. #60
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    In Sweden if you had a choice between one gas station that sold fuel for $5.80 a gallon and another across the street that sold it for $2.80 a gallon which would you choose? Your gov’t made that choice for you. Ours encouraged consumption.

    True. I believe if gas were priced half of what it is, people would most likely find other places to put that money, i would not expect people to exchange economical cars to gas hogs, when for decades we have become used to what we drive and burning gas at twice the rate for the same price is still burning gas that costs money.

    Safe to say that Swedish roads and highways are in better condition than those in the US, and yes there is car tax too.

    If i can sell you beer and liquor or ciggarettes at half the price you pay, will you decide to double your consumption just because you can?

  26. #61
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    .
    Yesterday regular was priced at $3.099/gal at most stations around here. I filled my tank for $2.149/gal at the nearest Kroger. I love using my fuel savings points!
    " I am one of those white, common sense conservatives. I believe in science and I have not taken the shot.”
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Regarding petrol, I'll buy what I need almost regardless of the price. I try to minimise driving driving anyway. The price today converts to about $8/gallon. I expect it to become more expensive in the future, which I consider good because it speeds up the market-driven change to alternatives.

    Most of the price is tax. I don't have a problem with that; the government needs to collect taxes as required to balance the budget, so one way or another they'll get my money. What bothers me is to pay VAT on fuel taxes. First a fuel tax (essentially a CO2 tax) is added to the price of petrol. After that, VAT is calculated on the total price including fuel tax. I find it fundamentally wrong to pay tax on a tax.

    I should add that I think our taxes are too high in Sweden, but we should address spending if we want lower taxes. Taxes are just the consequences of public spending.

    /Erik

  28. #63
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    Default $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Ummmm NO

    What you're saying is that every time they raise fuel prices we raise our service prices accordingly ? Because we don't. Do you know what it takes to just raise your prices every couple of years ?


    No, man.

    I am saying more appointments means more driving so that a higher fuel bill ( actually more gallons burned) effectively tracks with more business.

    Kevin


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  29. #64
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    No, man.

    I am saying more appointments means more driving so that a higher fuel bill ( actually more gallons burned) effectively tracks with more business.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    NO, Again.
    We don't dive as much as we are at idle working.

    I have the same appointment load, we have been fully booked for the last 2 years.
    6-8 dogs per day per van 7 days a week. That amount hasn't changed. What has changed is the cost of fuel to do the same job for the same price. So this year I will raise prices. I've already started to do that with new customers that can only fit in when we have a cancelation. Since we are so well rated and the word has gotten out we can ask premium pricing for the few open spots we get a month.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  30. #65
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Because the poor are immune to droughts, heat waves, floods, and rising sea levels?

    Or because the poor of the world all drive cars to work?
    The rich are immune to those disasters.

    But we were discussing gas prices in the US. So ...
    Life is complex.

  31. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    NO, Again.
    We don't dive as much as we are at idle working.

    I have the same appointment load, we have been fully booked for the last 2 years.
    6-8 dogs per day per van 7 days a week. That amount hasn't changed. What has changed is the cost of fuel to do the same job for the same price. So this year I will raise prices. I've already started to do that with new customers that can only fit in when we have a cancelation. Since we are so well rated and the word has gotten out we can ask premium pricing for the few open spots we get a month.


    Gotcha.

    I had not considered operation at absolute max capacity.

    Kevin


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  32. #67
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The rich are immune to those disasters.

    .
    Only if they live onboard a boat with a watermaker and air conditioning. Floods and drought will take care of the food production. No one expects African style famine to hit "developed" nations. Weather does not care......

  33. #68
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Because the poor are immune to droughts, heat waves, floods, and rising sea levels?

    Or because the poor of the world all drive cars to work?
    It’s a hell of an argument against paying the bills. “It’ll hurt the poor”.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    So Joe, how would you adapt to a $1/liter carbon tax doubling your fuel costs?

    Obviously the competition would be paying it too.
    To stay in business I would have to calculate what the % or my overhead is fuel ( I have that number somewhere ) then raise my prices based on the increased fuel cost. Once cost's surpass revenue its no longer a business it's a hobby.

    But yea I'm all for paying to help the environment.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  35. #70
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    Default Re: $4.00 a gallon ($3.99.9 actually) is too much, dammit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Only if they live onboard a boat with a watermaker and air conditioning. Floods and drought will take care of the food production. No one expects African style famine to hit "developed" nations. Weather does not care......
    I believe that George. used immunity first. I simply used the word he chose in the context that I understood he intended.

    I believe that history has shown that the poor are the ones who suffer most. And those who are asked to pay the most. Higher gas taxes just continue history.
    Life is complex.

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