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Thread: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

  1. #1
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    Default Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    I have a friend who has not slept in 3 weeks because she is terrified of the Corona vaccination. She is not an anti vaxxer in the traditional sense...completely non political, but distrusts big pharma...she eats organic food and leads a natural lifestyle, and is fearful that the Vax will fill her body with poisonous GM crap that is untested fully. She thinks it is a bit reckless and not fully tested...an experiment if you will. Even her medical doctor told her the same thing.

    How can I put her mind at rest, perhaps change her point of view?

    Who can she trust for genuine erudite information on the subject?

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    The testimony of a nurse on an ICU?
    The testimony of a long Covid sufferer?
    There will be videos of interviews on the web.

    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 07-23-2021 at 03:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    The only side effect reported from one of the vaccines here (AstraZeneca) is a risk of blood clots with a possibility of death. There is sixty times the risk of being killed in a car accident than by the vaccine. There have been hundreds of thousands of jabs given in my part of the country with no reports of side effects. Tell her to get the jab. I'd rather die from a blood clot while trying to do the right thing for my family and community than hiding under my bed worrying about things that might get me. JayInOz

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    The only side effect reported from one of the vaccines here (AstraZeneca) is a risk of blood clots with a possibility of death. There is sixty times the risk of being killed in a car accident than by the vaccine. There have been hundreds of thousands of jabs given in my part of the country with no reports of side effects. Tell her to get the jab. I'd rather die from a blood clot while trying to do the right thing for my family and community than hiding under my bed worrying about things that might get me. JayInOz
    That was studied. The risk of a blood clot from that one type of vaccine was little different from the risk of a blood clot without the vaccine.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    I can only repeat what I posted on another thread - slightly edited..

    I have an old friend on Merseyside. A few years ago he married an American girl, a Trumper and anti-vaxxer. Last year he told me in an email that they were not getting vaccinations because (conspiracy theory, blah blah).
    A couple of days ago I got an email from him, telling me that they both had Covid, his wife is in intensive care, and not responding to treatment. He thinks he might lose her, and I'm waiting for him to update me.


    Your friend should get the jabs, especially if she needs to work or socialize in any way, in which case I believe she has a moral responsibility to get immunized. Alternatively she could go into 'shielding' mode, with no outside contact except home deliveries of groceries etc.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    From the "Killing their own supporters" thread
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    https://www.kcra.com/article/sacrame...band/37087575#

    SACRAMENTO, Calif. —
    Vaccine hesitancy, according to public health experts, remains one of the biggest challenges in stopping the continued spread of COVID-19.

    That's why a Sacramento woman is sharing about the devastating loss of her husband.
    .
    .
    She said the two "weren't sure" about getting the COVID-19 vaccination until it was too late.
    .
    Brad tested positive for COVID-19 at the end of June. He died after spending two weeks battling the virus in an intensive care unit.

    "It all happened so fast," Mia explained. "I wish we would have gotten vaccinated. I mean one simple shot could've prevented all of this."

    After starting to get sick June 28, Brad struggled at home for a couple days. He tested his oxygen levels with a home oxygen meter. That's when he realized his condition was worsening.

    "He was on the phone with the nurse and she said, 'Are you reading that correctly?' and he said, 'Yeah,'" Mia recounted. "She [the nurse] said, 'You need to get to the emergency room immediately!'"

    Mia, who also tested positive for COVID a few days after Brad, did not have to spend time in the hospital. She did, however, experience severe headaches, fever, vomiting, and loss of smell and taste.

    She described her bout with the virus as "never having been that sick before."

    "It's nothing like the flu," Mia said. "When people say that ... it was nothing like the flu."
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Your friend is quite right. The disease is natural; the vaccination is man made.

    She should not submit to being vaccinated. She should keep herself pure. And of course when she contracts the disease she should refuse medical treatment and let nature take its course.

    Seriously, she seems to be suffering from a form of anorexia nervosa. Telling people that they are starving themselves to death never works; they always “know better”.

    She could just look around her to see thousands of happy healthy vaccinated people. Since that hasn’t helped her, nothing will.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 07-23-2021 at 04:15 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Thanks for your replies.

    The mainstream media here in Germany is full of upstanding medical institutions casting doubt into peoples minds. By MSM I mean standard TV interviews on the evening news. It really is a very big thing here, a large proportion of the population is very sceptical and doesn't want it.

    Her fears are about the long term effects being unknown in the real world, it being a new type of vaccine. I can't believe her GP told her that if he had the choice he would not give it to his patients. Like I said she has not slept in 3 weeks from fear about it.

    I don't know where to start to get solid trustworthy information, the internet being what it is. Occams razor just won't cut it.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Your friend is quite right. The disease is natural; the vaccination is man made.

    She should not submit to being vaccinated. She should keep herself pure. And of course when she contracts the disease she should refuse medical treatment and let nature take its course.
    She is not anti-medicine, just fearful of THIS vaccine.

    She is in a bad way and some helpful links or advice would be appreciated.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Thanks for your replies.

    The mainstream media here in Germany is full of upstanding medical institutions casting doubt into peoples minds. By MSM I mean standard TV interviews on the evening news. It really is a very big thing here, a large proportion of the population is very sceptical and doesn't want it.

    Her fears are about the long term effects being unknown in the real world, it being a new type of vaccine. I can't believe her GP told her that if he had the choice he would not give it to his patients. Like I said she has not slept in 3 weeks from fear about it.

    I don't know where to start to get solid trustworthy information, the internet being what it is. Occams razor just won't cut it.
    See what you can pick out of this:
    https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-...isinformation/
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Thank you Nick.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    She is not anti-medicine, just fearful of THIS vaccine.

    She is in a bad way and some helpful links or advice would be appreciated.
    You are wasting your time. If the sight of healthy happy vaccinated people all around her doesn’t convince her, nothing will.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Andrew, no-one has been 'healthy vaccinated people' long term.

    Unless you have anything useful to say other than 'forget about her, let her die', I'd appreciate it if you stopped commenting.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Andrew, no-one has been 'healthy vaccinated people' long term.

    Unless you have anything useful to say other than 'forget about her, let her die', I'd appreciate it if you stopped commenting.
    Her Conformation Bias and System 1 thinking may unfortunately mean that ACB is correct, you may be wasting your time. But you have to try.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Two things.
    The way the vaccines work is by introducing messenger RNA (not DNA as in GMO organisms) to the cytoplasm of the cells. It never gets into the nucleus where the DNA is. The information does not flow upstream from RNA to DNA. Acquired characteristics are not inherited; Lamarck and Lysenko have been discredited. This RNA is used as a template to make proteins usually associated with the virus, your immune system then mounts a reaction to these foreign proteins, and then stands ready to attack any similar proteins that may show up, i.e. the virus. The RNA is degraded by natural mechanisms in the cells. It never gets into the nucleus.
    Second, her nuclear DNA has been changed in many cells if she has ever had a viral disease, such as the flu. Viruses multiplly by inserting their DNA into the host's and then letting the host's DNA replicating mechanisms make many copies of it. That, in fact is just what the corona virus will do to her, insert its DNA into her genome to get multiplied, and may kill her in the process.
    As a bonus, almost all the plants she eats are already GMO organisms. Plants are very tolerant of changes to their DNA and often have incorporated extra DNA over time. If you look at them, most have an even number of chromosomes due to them doubling them. And there are numerous food organisms that are GMO by cross breeding, natural or human assisted: tangelos, corn, with lots of genes from wild teosinte, Santa Gertrudis cattle. Humans ourselves, as anyone who has used a
    DNA geneology service can tell you have genes from neanderthals.
    I hope you are able to convince her to get the shots. It would be a cruel irony if she got sick from a virus introducing DNA into her nuclear DNA because she did not want to expose herself to RNA.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Providing facts does not solve the problem. It's an emotional state she is in, use emotion to push her more or less in the right direction.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Thank you David P.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    It sounds like your friend has some serious issues and may require professional help. Also her doctor is a quack.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    A US doctor says people dying of Covid are asking for vaccinations. They're being told it's too late.

    Lupussonic, your friend makes daily choices with regards to risk. "Run across a busy road, or use the pedestrian crossing? Drink off-milk or buy a new bottle?" for example.

    Same thing here. A tiny, tiny risk of a side-effect, a mild case of Covid once vaccinated (if they get it at all) versus a significant possibility of death or long-term detrimental effects.

    She has to drown out the anxiety, the worry, by looking at the statistics and the science.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Thanks for your replies.

    The mainstream media here in Germany is full of upstanding medical institutions casting doubt into peoples minds. By MSM I mean standard TV interviews on the evening news. It really is a very big thing here, a large proportion of the population is very sceptical and doesn't want it.

    Her fears are about the long term effects being unknown in the real world, it being a new type of vaccine. I can't believe her GP told her that if he had the choice he would not give it to his patients. Like I said she has not slept in 3 weeks from fear about it.

    I don't know where to start to get solid trustworthy information, the internet being what it is. Occams razor just won't cut it.
    So your media, and 'upstanding medical institutions' are complicit with causing unnecessary deaths?

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    If your friend is afraid of poisonous crap in the vaccine, ask her to consider all the poisonous crap they will be pumping into her at the ICU if she gets covid.

    She sounds like she has a phobia of modern medicine, even when it is life-saving. Maybe she should treat that.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    I have a friend who has not slept in 3 weeks because she is terrified of the Corona vaccination. She is not an anti vaxxer in the traditional sense...completely non political, but distrusts big pharma...she eats organic food and leads a natural lifestyle, and is fearful that the Vax will fill her body with poisonous GM crap that is untested fully. She thinks it is a bit reckless and not fully tested...an experiment if you will. Even her medical doctor told her the same thing.

    How can I put her mind at rest, perhaps change her point of view?



    Who can she trust for genuine erudite information on the subject?
    Don't.
    as it happens Im not quite so 'anti', but definitely , as the media is slowly starting to use the phrase more and more, even the Beeb, 'vaccine hesitant' a third of France for instance. and when you read that Boris and two of his senior cabinet members are self isolating, when all have been double vaxed, all have tested negative at various times, and at least one, maybe two have had C19 and recovered fully, no wonder the sceptics are sceptical.
    Its her life , her choice, and when the restrictions come in that she will not be able to do almost anything without all the certificates and proof, maybe she will change her mind.
    If she is so worried, frightened even, she is hardly going to be going out clubbing and eating out without masks and social distancing. Typhoid Mary she isn't

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Smallpox and polio were not conquered by organic food choices.

    I think the resistance comes in part from an unstated credibility given to the "vaccines-cause-autism" crap. That idiot urban myth is still alive, and has contaminated clear thinking on the issue.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    Don't.
    as it happens Im not quite so 'anti', but definitely , as the media is slowly starting to use the phrase more and more, even the Beeb, 'vaccine hesitant' a third of France for instance. and when you read that Boris and two of his senior cabinet members are self isolating, when all have been double vaxed, all have tested negative at various times, and at least one, maybe two have had C19 and recovered fully, no wonder the sceptics are sceptical.
    Its her life , her choice, and when the restrictions come in that she will not be able to do almost anything without all the certificates and proof, maybe she will change her mind.
    If she is so worried, frightened even, she is hardly going to be going out clubbing and eating out without masks and social distancing. Typhoid Mary she isn't
    When something is described as 95% effective, that does not mean it is always effective. It means that 5 out of 100 will still get it. In addition, some will get it but be asymptomatic.

    There are the people who get it, recover, and are fine. There are many others who get it, suffer horribly, and die. Look at the #'s for people being hospitalized nowadays - most all are unvaccinated.

    It's irresponsible statements like yours that are making it so difficult to reach a decent percentage of vaccinated people and additionally hurting people like Martin's friend.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    more than 85% of people in britain are fully vaccinated. less than 30 % in various other european countries , through scepticism, hesitancy , idiotic brainwashing, Britain still has a comparable infection rate to some of those countries. let me know what bit of my post was 'irresponsible'.
    My behaviour and lifestyle is a feck siight more responsible than many of those on this forum who are proudly crowing about going out again, ignoring social distancing , not wearing masks., boasting about their gastronomic socialising. just because they are vaxxed. They are the irresposible ones. let's wait and see.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    What I think is that we're at war. America in particular, but also the rest of us. The war is mostly being waged in the disinformation politics theater, but occasionally crosses over into the "by other means" (thanks Clausewitz) of physical violence.

    Wars don't end through violence. Killing doesn't convince the adversary that they're wrong, and historically it's been quite rare to entirely exterminate the adversary. Not that folks haven't tried that approach, and virtually always failed.

    Wars end through negotiations. Through treaties. So while it's entirely understandable that folks on our side of the war feel angry and want to express our rage and disrespect for the other side's BS, doing that won't lead to peace. Won't even lead to a truce. No matter how "correct" our positions are. BTW, the other side of this war has a bunch of feelings too, some of which are well grounded in fact. The fact, for instance, of experiencing cutting disrespect and savage put-downs. Those experiences don't justify rolling back voting rights or monkeywrenching Public Health efforts to contain a deadly pandemic, but they're actual.

    We've got to, eventually, get out of this by negotiation and compromise with each other. Whatever that might look like I can't quite imagine, though I'm damned certain of some of my own hills to die on. But whatever - so long as we're refusing to talk, we're not going to stop being at war. For all that talking is not a "sufficient condition" for peace and will likely have many false starts before it succeeds, it's a "necessary" one.

    As to your friend's fears about what unnatural thing might get injected into her by vaccines ... yeah. Some human-synthesized thing will be injected. When she drives to your home to talk, she's ingesting human-synthesized muck too. She'll have microparticles of plastics in her lungs and blood too, because they're everywhere on the planet. She's daily bombarded with synthesized material as she breathes the off-gassing from plastics and glues in modern construction, cleaning products, exhaust, micro-fibers from her clothes and those her neighbours wear. The single biggest contaminant in many waterways is the dust from motor vehicle tires driving on the roads next to them.

    The difference with the vaccine is that each individual component of the serum which isn't mRNA has actually been rigorously tested over years and years, and frankly is the carrier material in every vaccine and most IV drugs we've used for decades. And mRNA itself is simply a bit of protein, created to look like the bit of protein on a piece of the exterior of the COVID virus. Protein is "natural," as "natural" as anything organic that your friend eats. This protein is remarkably "pure" too - there are zero contaminants in the amino acids used in its makeup; one is getting only what is advertised.

    And finally, the vaccine functions by awakening and educating her own body's natural defenses, which are what will actually keep her safe should she ever come into contact with the virus itself. It's like the "catalyst" herbal preparations that biodynamic farmers pour onto the soil, with the intent of invigorating soil bacteria and fungi to make nutrients available to plant roots. What will protect her from sickening with COVID is a natural process of her body itself, which is quite distinct from some of the toxic compounds administered to try to keep her alive should she get ill with it.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    I fail to see what all the fuss is about.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    I fail to see what all the fuss is about.
    And yet there is a fuss even with your failing to see what it’s about.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    article


    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...cine-hesitancy

    The vast majority of vaccine-hesitant people do not have a political agenda and are not committed to an anti-scientific cause: they are simply undecided about their choice to take the injection.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    What I think is that we're at war. America in particular, but also the rest of us. The war is mostly being waged in the disinformation politics theater, but occasionally crosses over into the "by other means" (thanks Clausewitz) of physical violence.
    I tend to agree with you. The question really is who are the combatants and how exactly are they benefitting?
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    she has been tampered with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I tend to agree with you. The question really is who are the combatants and how exactly are they benefitting?
    Prompted by Tom Barrack's indictment, I've come to think that it's a version of a post-national class war. It's a war of a group of people at the very richest part of the global economy, against whatever they deem to be setting restrictions on their power and freedom.

    Rupert Murdoch epitomizes this - he's nominally Australian, but does anyone really think he bears sovereign allegiance to the country of his birth? Or any of the various countries where he operates businesses or owns property? Murdoch is for Murdoch; nationalism and sovereign state power and the observance of the "laws" which those who claim jurisdiction over different bits of geography are passé.

    To Murdoch, these are discourses which continue to have power over people who consent to be bound by them and operate within them, and which provide leverage points which folks like him who feel no such attachments can manipulate.

    This is also Tom Barrack, and the Trumps, and the folks we've all described as criminals surrounding the Trump presidency - pardoned, convicted, indicted, or otherwise. They live post-national lives, and will use Patriotism and other tropes of the pre-21st Century modern world quite cynically, as con artists note and use their marks' predelictions and moral universes to bilk them.

    I think this is the shape of the political and economic world after the information technology revolution which really got underway in the 1980s. And the struggles we have are that the institutions and systems of justice and regulation which we developed for a globe primarily functioning within the Treaty of Wesphalia's world of sovereign nation-states is insufficient. They're antiquated technology, in the same way that in 40 years internal combustion engine driven cars will be functional oddities, or steam engines are to us today.
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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Rupert Murdoch is a naturalized US citizen. I don’t think he bears any allegiance to the US either.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Prompted by Tom Barrack's indictment, I've come to think that it's a version of a post-national class war. It's a war of a group of people at the very richest part of the global economy, against whatever they deem to be setting restrictions on their power and freedom.

    Rupert Murdoch epitomizes this - he's nominally Australian, but does anyone really think he bears sovereign allegiance to the country of his birth? Or any of the various countries where he operates businesses or owns property? Murdoch is for Murdoch; nationalism and sovereign state power and the observance of the "laws" which those who claim jurisdiction over different bits of geography are passé.

    To Murdoch, these are discourses which continue to have power over people who consent to be bound by them and operate within them, and which provide leverage points which folks like him who feel no such attachments can manipulate.

    This is also Tom Barrack, and the Trumps, and the folks we've all described as criminals surrounding the Trump presidency - pardoned, convicted, indicted, or otherwise. They live post-national lives, and will use Patriotism and other tropes of the pre-21st Century modern world quite cynically, as con artists note and use their marks' predelictions and moral universes to bilk them.

    I think this is the shape of the political and economic world after the information technology revolution which really got underway in the 1980s. And the struggles we have are that the institutions and systems of justice and regulation which we developed for a globe primarily functioning within the Treaty of Wesphalia's world of sovereign nation-states is insufficient. They're antiquated technology, in the same way that in 40 years internal combustion engine driven cars will be functional oddities, or steam engines are to us today.
    perspicacious, tom.

    one unexpected turn for me personally is that, since the "russia is our friend!" chants at charlottesville, i find myself more and more defending the traditional form of u.s. nationalism, the one with the motto "my country, right or wrong," or maybe "america, love it or leave it."

    this is not because i am any sort of chest thumping patriot. it is because i see the forces of the conservative white patriarchy, as they lose their ironclad grip on power, demonstrating a willingness to see the whole world run by authoritarianism, just so long as they are the authority.

    i find myself turning against russia and china principally, because i don't want to see the present and future of billions of human souls shaped by those governments. and i would prop up our western democracies not because they are the best bulwark against what is coming, they are the only bulwark. we are the only bulwark.

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    Default Re: Reasons to be fearful of vaccinations?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    she has been tampered with
    Concise and on target in five words.

    Her's is not an independent thought that just popped into her head. Lots of bad dope going around these days. Some people will believe it regardless of politics or the tyranny of logic.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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