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Thread: Varoufakis on Assange.

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    Default Varoufakis on Assange.


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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 07-22-2021 at 05:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    except that the mirror was not turned on all the big actors equally.

    if assange had published putin's secrets he would have been dead the next day. and what nation is more "big brother" than china? where are all the chinese diplomatic secrets?

    by target selection, wikileaks ended up serving the interests of the worst actors.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    news today, latest estimate of prison capacity in xinjiang province, china, is over 1 million souls. that is given a relatively humane prisoner density, which we should not assume.

    pity the uyghurs. julian assange? not so much.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    except that the mirror was not turned on all the big actors equally.

    if assange had published putin's secrets he would have been dead the next day. and what nation is more "big brother" than china? where are all the chinese diplomatic secrets?

    by target selection, wikileaks ended up serving the interests of the worst actors.
    Someone might suggest you are attempting deflection.

    He can only publish information that is leaked by whistle blowers.

    Do you have evidence wikileaks has recieved information from China/Russia wistleblowers that he chose not to publish?

    Do you think what the British did to Alan Turing was right, and will they have the same remorse regarding Assange in the future?

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Someone might suggest you are attempting deflection.

    He can only publish information that is leaked by whistle blowers.

    Do you have evidence wikileaks has recieved information from China/Russia wistleblowers that he chose not to publish?

    Do you think what the British did to Alan Turing was right, and will they have the same remorse regarding Assange in the future?
    You are drawing a false analogy. Turing played an important role in code breaking during WW2. His conviction for something that is not now a crime was entirely unrelated to his work in code breaking.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    How long has Assange been either holed up in an embassy or incarcerated? I think he's done his time, let him go.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    You are drawing a false analogy. Turing played an important role in code breaking during WW2. His conviction for something that is not now a crime was entirely unrelated to his work in code breaking.
    Only a false analogy depending on point of view. People who exposing truth, war crimes, should never be vilified for being who they are.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    How long has Assange been either holed up in an embassy or incarcerated? I think he's done his time, let him go.
    9 years, 7 of which in the embassy. His only crime was jumping bail.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    Only a false analogy depending on point of view. People who exposing truth, war crimes, should never be vilified for being who they are.
    Let’s have a list of the truths and war crimes that Alan Turing exposed, then.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarixMaximus View Post
    9 years, 7 of which in the embassy. His only crime was jumping bail.
    The only crime for which he has yet been convicted was jumping bail.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    The only crime for which he has yet been convicted was jumping bail.

    9 years is more than enough time to convict anybody of a legitimate crime. Let him go.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    He could have stepped out of the embassy at any time in that seven years. I hope he is extradited to the USA.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    He is currently held because the American government has appealed against the decision that he cannot be extradited. As he fled from justice before, he therefore cannot be released until the case is heard, which is delayed due to covid.
    Just an amateur bodging away..

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I hope he is extradited to the USA.
    So you support Putins treatment of journalists also, those who expose truth? Interesting.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    9 years is more than enough time to convict anybody of a legitimate crime. Let him go.
    It is tricky to convict anyone if they cannot be bought to a court of law.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It is tricky to convict anyone if they cannot be bought to a court of law.
    That is true, perhaps Mr Bennet prefers Lukashenkos method of diverting plans and dragging journalists off?

    Your PM was once terminated from a newspaper after writing an article with one too many lies, now he is pushing through a bill in Parliment that will give prison time to journalists.

    No one does irony like the British.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    By target selection, Wikileaks ended up serving the interests of the worst actors.
    Exactly.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    except that the mirror was not turned on all the big actors equally.

    if assange had published putin's secrets he would have been dead the next day. and what nation is more "big brother" than china? where are all the chinese diplomatic secrets?

    by target selection, wikileaks ended up serving the interests of the worst actors.
    Target selection? Assange’s answer to risking the lives of people who’d helped the US was “that’s what they get”. He was Just a selfish a-hole who donned a convenient clock of “truther”.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Target selection? .
    He might have been referring to the selection of journalists, schools/school buses, markets, hospitals, funerals etc, that was being targeted on a regular basis by the US.

    I dont recall anyone else doing that in this timeframe, so have no idea of who the "worst actors" are .

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Target selection? Assange’s answer to risking the lives of people who’d helped the US was “that’s what they get”. He was Just a selfish a-hole who donned a convenient cloak of “truther”.
    Exactly. His treatment of Chelsea Manning tells anyone that Assange is no sort of hero.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Exactly. His treatment of Chelsea Manning tells anyone that Assange is no sort of hero.
    You are the first person on this thread to use the word "hero". Has anyone else suggested that?

    He is a journalist exposing truth. Would you teach children to lie or encourage them to be honest?

    Was Nuremburg so long ago that people forget that complicity in a war crime and "just following orders" was no defence?

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Assange is not a journalist.

    I am not going to waste more time on this troll.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    The mechanism of Wikileaks for governments (elected spenders of YOUR tax) being held accountable is none the less a good one, no matter Assanges personal shortcomings or alleged crimes, which amount to jumping bail.

    He will not get a fair trial in the US.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Like, I dare say, many other people, in 2006 I saw Assange as an amusing and witty fellow who came out with embarrassing information on some Governments. Not many Governments, though. As his sense of his own importance grew he ventured into other territory and some of the things that he did, such as broadcasting lots of information which could not possibly have been checked carefully, made me start to have second thoughts, and by the time of the Chelsea Manning data dumps I had changed my mind.

    He may have been responsible for publishing data that compromised people who were doing good work. He did not care.

    His involvement in the Russian campaign to secure the election of Donald Trump is disgusting. Yes, I know that Assange says that he is innocent. The question is, is it reasonable to believe him?

    Mandy Rice-Davies Applies.

    He will get a perfectly fair trial in the USA.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 07-22-2021 at 01:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    The mechanism of Wikileaks for governments (elected spenders of YOUR tax) being held accountable is none the less a good one

    What in the last 15 years has happened that makes you think anyone was held accountable?

    Oh dear, I’m nauseated the US government was keeping tabs on Xinjiang! Lord, people crow about Wikileaks leaking diplo cables keeping tabs on Xinjiang, and don’t give a damn about China. F that.
    Last edited by Hugh Conway; 07-22-2021 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Andrew, tend to agree, but not on your last sentence.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    The mechanism of Wikileaks for governments (elected spenders of YOUR tax) being held accountable is none the less a good one, no matter Assanges personal shortcomings or alleged crimes, which amount to jumping bail.

    He will not get a fair trial in the US.
    well, i don't agree that indiscriminately publishing secrets is in our best interests.

    like any organization, business, agency, or even individual person, to be effective certain thoughts and communications and processes need to be private.

    i don't want everyone to hear everything i say to myself. i don't want everyone to hear what my government is saying to itself.

    "when i meet the woman of my dreams, i hope she doesn't know my dreams".

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    well, i don't agree that indiscriminately publishing secrets is in our best interests
    The lie of Wikileaks is that they indiscriminately publish secrets. They never have, never will. If, if, that were an honest position of theirs one good ascribe a misguided idealism to it. But it’s not actually Wikileaks position. Their actual position is “accountability” for democracys of the west, favor for authoritarian criminals.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    I wonder if the Reuters journalists and the bereaved families of those others who were killed here feel the same way about secrecy?


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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
    Andrew, tend to agree, but not on your last sentence.
    On the whole, the US legal system is somewhat similar to those of other English speaking countries and on the whole it works quite well, but it works better for the rich and famous than it does for the poor and unheard of. Assange is such a high profile figure that great care will be taken to ensure that justice is seen to be done, and I think he is more likely to be unjustifiably acquitted than he is to be unjustifiably convicted.
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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post

    i don't want everyone to hear everything i say to myself. i don't want everyone to hear what my government is saying to itself.
    Do you not want to know whether your elected reps are sending your young to die in the Middle East on the basis of a lie?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Assange is not a journalist.
    You made it quite clear you do not like the man, but stating he is not a journalist does not do you any favours.






    yet you call me a troll. Like i said, no one does irony like the British......

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.


    Union of Journalists in Kazakhstan
    cut

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    Default Re: Varoufakis on Assange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    It is tricky to convict anyone if they cannot be bought to a court of law.
    He's sitting in Belmarsh Prison! Whether we like him or not is irrelevant, you either charge him with some crime or you let him go.
    be modest, and be proud of it.

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