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Thread: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

  1. #1
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    Default Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    California city destroys dozens of boats people call home to clear floating community (msn.com)

    I am not sure calling people who live aboard homeless is correct, and not sure destroying where they live makes sense. But I can see the point that a derelict boat without any motive power can be a hazard..


    your thoughts?
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    I'm with you. If I was boss, I'd take it case by case. I thought the sheriff made a good point. A drifting hulk is a menace. A boat that sinks at anchor is too, both to the occupants and to others on the water. If the state has the right to enact codes and condemn a vessel (property) if it is judged unseaworthy, then unseaworthy and unsafe vessels must be condemned. Then there are questions relating to sewage disposal, garbage disposal, public docks, etc. Just scratching the surface of what questions there are.

    One guy was asked where he came from and answered "Texas." The interviewer asked "how long?" He replied "six years." Talk about off the grid. I would have thought if he was keeping a boat there and living on it in Sausalito he'd be a Californian. I can see why a municipality would want to know more than that. Being aboard or being responsible for a hulk would terrify me. I would like to know more about the vessels they condemned and what the process was, what attempts were made to contact owners, etc. But, if a boat can't float reliably and take some weather with confidence, it's a public menace and I don't want to share the water with it, especially in a crowded harbor.

    Homelessness is another question but since it bears directly on the issues here, it confuses matters. The solution is affordable housing, it's not putting people, or people parking themselves, on derelict boats. Being on the water entails some responsibility to the situation. As sailors we have to acknowledge that. This all raises the question of process, how are boats selected, what efforts are made to resolve possession issues, etc. And what led people to live on boats that don't move for years at anchor, about which there is so much too discuss. But we know the problem. Visible signs of a society in decline. I wonder if they have stuff like this going on in Norway?

    This results from the infrastructure problems that the bastids didn't want to fund. On the other hand, I don't want to share our mutual waterfront with people pumping sewage.
    Last edited by Lew Barrett; 07-09-2021 at 08:02 PM.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    People just don't understand how hard it is to be rich! You are constantly faced with having to look at poor people! It is tough!
    Skip

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    The aquatic version of a vagrant sleeping in their car or sketchy 1970s rv.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    I would not trust the authorities not to have a second set of instructions re this situation, but I tke the point about being seaworthy and being able to move under their own power.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    It's two different problems tied at the hips.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    That anchorage in front of Sausalito is a freakin disaster. Been like that a long time .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    I'm with you. If I was boss, I'd take it case by case. I thought the sheriff made a good point. A drifting hulk is a menace. A boat that sinks at anchor is too, both to the occupants and to others on the water. If the state has the right to enact codes and condemn a vessel (property) if it is judged unseaworthy, then unseaworthy and unsafe vessels must be condemned. Then there are questions relating to sewage disposal, garbage disposal, public docks, etc. Just scratching the surface of what questions there are.

    One guy was asked where he came from and answered "Texas." The interviewer asked "how long?" He replied "six years." Talk about off the grid. I would have thought if he was keeping a boat there and living on it in Sausalito he'd be a Californian. I can see why a municipality would want to know more than that. Being aboard or being responsible for a hulk would terrify me. I would like to know more about the vessels they condemned and what the process was, what attempts were made to contact owners, etc. But, if a boat can't float reliably and take some weather with confidence, it's a public menace and I don't want to share the water with it, especially in a crowded harbor.

    Homelessness is another question but since it bears directly on the issues here, it confuses matters. The solution is affordable housing, it's not putting people, or people parking themselves, on derelict boats. Being on the water entails some responsibility to the situation. As sailors we have to acknowledge that. This all raises the question of process, how are boats selected, what efforts are made to resolve possession issues, etc. And what led people to live on boats that don't move for years at anchor, about which there is so much too discuss. But we know the problem. Visible signs of a society in decline. I wonder if they have stuff like this going on in Norway?

    This results from the infrastructure problems that the bastids didn't want to fund. On the other hand, I don't want to share our mutual waterfront with people pumping sewage.


    +1

    I'll add that its getting tougher for cruisers to find anchorages all the time. Derelict ( sic) boats with occupants pumping sewage just make it that much easier for municipalities to say no to all anchoring.

    Kevin


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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Same issues here. We have two largish rivers running thru town. Lots of folks move aboard. And some of them do cause problems. And yet...

    If you clear them out, what do you do with those dodgy boats? Most of the 'problem' population doesn't have the resources to dispose of them. So they get abandoned, and become a public problem. And then where do those folks go? More tents in public parks? Living under overpasses adding to the already burgeoning 'homeless problem'?

    Some of us here have been trying to convince the authorities that, yes, there are problems to be addressed. But we need to be careful not to take the easy, obvious, solutions that only create further (sometimes larger) problems down the line.

    Also that some of those 'problem' boats are actually not causing any problems. They have bathroom facilities ashore. Their boats look like 'derelicts' but aren't. That their only real 'crime' is, yes, sullying the view of those waterfront tower unit owners who paid half a million for their studio unit and want a pretty vista.

    There are no easy answers. But the approach is key. Will it be short-sighted, punitive, and classist... or will it be creative, far-sighted, problem-solving? The latter is mighty scarce in local government, where there are far more problems than there are staff or dollars to address them well.
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    One guy was asked where he came from and answered "Texas." The interviewer asked "how long?" He replied "six years." Talk about off the grid. I would have thought if he was keeping a boat there and living on it in Sausalito he'd be a Californian.
    That's open to interpretation. People from Texas are proud to be from there, they'll be somewhere else a long time and still say "I'm from Texas!" The exact exchange is:

    "Who are you?"
    "I'm from NBC News. Where are you from?"
    "I'm from Texas. I've got a boat anchored out here, this is now my sixth year."

    He's from Texas and been there going on six years. The other issues, completely valid. Just like PCH turnouts et al, which allow people to park and camp for up to 72 hours IIRC, I can see the same being true for public waters. In this case, completely beside the issue of whether the boats are derelict, is whether they sink and become an environmental hazard (a small amount of oil or gasoline can pollute a huge amount of water) or break loose and present a hazard to navigation. And I'm a pretty darned strong advocate for the homeless and low budget travelers. In my youth, I often traveled cheaply, cleanly, low-key, camping in the back of a station wagon parked somewhere discrete, just for the night, then moved on, left zero trace. In the middle of my career, I had to do that for six months while looking for work.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    What you need is a giant redundant cruise ship with all it's own facilities to house the homeless and itinerant population. moored smack in the middler of that expensive view,



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    Default

    Like the cops raiding homeless encampments, I would like to see the statutory authority by which the coos can seize private property and destroy it.

    Citation, please.
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    the 1971 Sausalito Houseboat War
    https://www.theava.com/archives/23500

    can't have that shat in our hood
    Houseboat-Wars.jpg
    Last edited by sonofswen; 07-10-2021 at 12:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    the 1971 Sausalito Houseboat War
    https://www.theava.com/archives/23500

    can't have that shat in our hood
    Houseboat-Wars.jpg

    Be interesting g to hear Stewart Brand's and Kevin Kelly's takes on this -- the Whole Earth Catalog and Coeveolution Quarterly were both headquartered out of Gate 5.

    And I believe one or both of them lived on houseboats there.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    What you need is a giant redundant cruise ship with all it's own facilities to house the homeless and itinerant population. moored smack in the middler of that expensive view,


    That's exactly what the city of Rotterdam and the salvation army of Rotterdam did. They moored an riviercruise boat to house 80 homeless people.
    Up until now the trial is very successful.
    daklozenboot.jpg
    One of the cabin's, the view on the river is a bonus.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    A 15 dollar minimum wage might begin to fix the rich people’s view problems.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    A 15 dollar minimum wage might begin to fix the rich people’s view problems.
    Nowhere near enough to begin to fix the problem.

    Not enough for those below the median to close the income gap with many of those above the median. Certainly none of the rich. Not enough for those below the median to have significant wealth.


    Most years the rich get a big raise on the income their wealth generates. The rich are more than happy to watch the fight for $15 knowing that it will not affect them.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    I think I may be one of the few on this board who regularly sail in Richardson Bay. Most of the boats are rotten gotten for free on craigs list; former homeless without boating expereince are/were living aboard. Higher fecal levels in water and weekly drownings besides recovering several abandoned sunk boats a month at county expense; some of the reasons the county is making the move. The halcyon days of sitting on the dock of the bay with Otis and Janis along with Quick Silver Messenger are over.

    Homelessness is epicdemic here. Many pediphiles on release, serious criminals including formerly incarcerated murderers and rapists as well as mentally ill live on these vessels. Poor folks and marginal people living on rotten and sinking boats is not a solution to the housing problem in one of the wealthiest and most beautiful places on the planet. As a reminder, minimum salery to afford a place to live is 50k a year unless you want to live in a car, a rotton boat or in a tent.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-10-2021 at 10:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    related to this subject, my brother in 1969 put a Japanese looking houseboat in the Gate 5 area in Sausalito. He had water storage and a non invasive toilet. It was anchored out which led to it being stolen. There were a few boats that were legal or close to it, but most were pretty dumpy. Another time sort of repeating itself...To this day I don't know where it vanished to..
    Last edited by sonofswen; 07-10-2021 at 11:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    They were interrupting Pelosi's view outside her wall and over her fence.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Sausalito in the late 60's and early 70's was a very cool place for boatnics... As was Alviso down in the south bay.
    (Paladin and I had some interesting conversations about those days)

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Hmmmm....Long beach IS looking for something to do with the Queen Mary....

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkW6 View Post
    They were interrupting Pelosi's view outside her wall and over her fence.
    Seriously that comment makes absolutely no sense.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Seriously that comment makes absolutely no sense.
    Maybe from the standpoint of a troll?

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Maybe from the standpoint of a troll?
    She’d have to live right on the pull out lane of 101 to make any sense.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Maybe from the standpoint of a troll?
    Exactly.

    Reminds me of the sort of person where if 4 Americans die in Benghazi, they go into a full psychotic episode lasting years, but when 5 Americans die during a treasonous insurrection, it's 'Ho hum. they were just tourists.'
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Exactly.

    Reminds me of the sort of person where if 4 Americans die in Benghazi, they go into a full psychotic episode lasting years, but when 5 Americans die during a treasonous insurrection, it's 'Ho hum. they were just tourists.'

    The only person who died a violent death was a 120 lbs lady who was shot by either a private security guard hired by a Democrat senator or a Capital Police Lt, funny what is it 6 months later and this shooter is still unidentified !
    The other four people died of heart attacks and one a stroke , and that stroke was originally falsely reported as a being hit by a fire extinguisher, by the MSM, and Shockley they never really came out and reported that they lied about that stroke death.

    Where do you get your news Ozzie? CNN?
    Have a blessed day Ozzie.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Ashli Babbit Memorial Statue coming to a town near you ?

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Ashli Babbit Memorial Statue coming to a town near you ?
    They were patriots! patriots I say! Fighting the Deep State, the Wuhan virus, pizza pedophiles and global warming hoax. The election was fixed and unfair! Fixed and unfair! Jewish Space Lasers would not defer them from their patriotic duty to string up Pelosi and Pence! Violence uber alles!

    sarc off

    It’s tragically ironic how many cops and politicians from other parts were in the mob. Blue lives matter, until they don’t. I can imagine Capitol police know who has their backs and it’s not the majority of Republican politicians supporting the big lie.
    Last edited by LeeG; 07-15-2021 at 09:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Ashli Babbit Memorial Statue coming to a town near you ?
    they are gonna have a torchlight parade singing the Ashley Babbitt song in memorial to the first martyr.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    The only person who died a violent death was a 120 lbs lady who was shot by either a private security guard hired by a Democrat senator or a Capital Police Lt, funny what is it 6 months later and this shooter is still unidentified !
    The other four people died of heart attacks and one a stroke , and that stroke was originally falsely reported as a being hit by a fire extinguisher, by the MSM, and Shockley they never really came out and reported that they lied about that stroke death.

    Where do you get your news Ozzie? CNN?
    Have a blessed day Ozzie.
    At least I get news.

    You are on a diet of pure propaganda.

    I had a neighbor on one side, two doors up the hill, who had a home invasion. The adult son was home, and he grabbed up the 1911A and proceeded to wing one of the invaders who both then fled the scene.

    The wounded one ran into my downhill next-door neighbor's back yard, where she found him freaking out behind the shed, wild-eyed, and repeating the phrase 'I'm gonna die! I'm gonna die!'

    Luckily for the kid, Rita was a retired Registered Nurse.

    Once the police came and hauled the kid away, Rita had a massive coronary and died instantly.

    The DA decided that the criminal act of home invasion had caused Rita's untimely demise, and charged the kid with Murder One.


    Of course, a horde of Morons invading the Capitol for the expressed purpose of overturning a Federal election are automatically exempt from any sort of prosecution because, say it with me now, Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!

    Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!
    Rattling the teacups.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    The only person who died a violent death was a 120 lbs lady who was shot by either a private security guard hired by a Democrat senator or a Capital Police Lt, funny what is it 6 months later and this shooter is still unidentified !
    .
    As a veteran you know better than this...

    The shooter is not "unknown". They (the police, also veterans) were protecting the Capitol building and a congress in session from an ultimately successful armed invasion leading up to the first time a confederate flag was displayed in the building.
    The person killed while trying to gain egress was a military veteran having recently served two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, the gender is irrelevant.

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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    As a veteran you know better than this...

    The shooter is not "unknown". They (the police, also veterans) were protecting the Capitol building and a congress in session from an ultimately successful armed invasion leading up to the first time a confederate flag was displayed in the building.
    The person killed while trying to gain egress was a military veteran having recently served two tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, the gender is irrelevant.

    Her size and sex matter , she was a small women , shot by a much larger male. He should go to jail for man(women) slaughter!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    Her size and sex matter , she was a small women , shot by a much larger male. He should go to jail for man(women) slaughter!
    "A much larger male" I'm glad you now know who the shooter was...
    No trial needed then.
    But what if she had been black?

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Marin County Clearing Out Anchor Out Liveaboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    "A much larger male" I'm glad you now know who the shooter was...
    No trial needed then.
    But what if she had been black?
    She was relatively small human, the arm and hand of the person who fired the weapon was at least average size.
    The point is any other cop who shot anyone in the past five years has been identified within hours of the action, why is this different?

    Why does skin color matter?

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