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Thread: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

  1. #1
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    Default Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Hi All,

    Wondering if anyone has measured/estimated tacking angles for this boat with lug rig main sail yawl (sprit mizzen). Today I turned on Navionics on my phone and then stowed it and forgot it while I sailed. From looking at the mast head fly I thought I was sailing pretty close to the wind when close hauled but then other sloop-rigged boats were pointing much higher and now I check my tracks and I was averaging about 65 degrees off the wind, which seems pretty big to me. Admittedly, the wind was light and I had the centerboard raised pretty high to see what I could get away with so it might not be a good test of ultimate pointing ability, but still, seems big to me. And definitely makes it slow actual progress over ground to windward.

    Scott

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Lots of good ideas here http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ing-Techniques

    I think I need to do lots experimentation and tweaking to how my sails are rigged.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    A topic detour: what navionics app are you using? There seems to be quite a few but none I see in Apple’s AppStore with that specific title? Some are free, others for fishing. I’d like what you’re using, for the same reasons.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Yer average gaffer tacks thru 120 ...don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Pinching ,cracking off, an inch or a half an inch on a halyard or snotter..body weight moved a wee bit...these things take time to master.
    But take heart, after a few hundred hours of futzing , you too can get 10 degrees closer to the wind.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Your board has lots to do with pointing ability. A foil shape and keeping it down will be important. Problem with pivoting boards is that when they are part way up they don't work so well. Rerun your experience with the board down. From the experience with hot shot racers pushing Sunfish around, it is totally normal to have the "bad tack" be the better.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Thank you for the feedback. I am running the standard Navionics+ on a Samsung, it does not tell you tack angles, I just track my sails and then slap a protractor on the screen. Thanks wizbang for the perspective, if I could get 10 degrees I'd be pretty happy and for now at least, fussing is fun. Ben, yes, I did not give my CB enough care when shaping, it flutters at about 3 kts and I have not pulled it since launched 13 years ago. It's time for a paint job this winter so I'll add reshaping the CB to the list.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    If you want to get the best performance to windward from your balanced-lug yawl, you need to get a dedicated GPS that has a velocity-made-good (VMG) function built in. You pick a destination dead windward, enter it into the GPS and start sailing toward it, while watching the VMG. I have done this with my 18’ boat that has the same rig.

    As others have pointed out, this rig will never point as high as a jib-headed sloop. However, you will also likely find that your best VMG to windward, as with a jib-headed sloop, is not the highest you can point the boat, even if your sail trim is perfect. I confirmed this on a long beat to windward all afternoon down a channel in steady winds a few years ago. I found that about 5 degrees off the highest I could point the boat gave me the best VMG. I also discovered that I had to be incredibly vigilant to the helm to maintain that best VMG. If my attention wandered even a little bit, the speed stayed the same but the VMG dropped off a half a knot to a knot. It was pretty subtle and I couldn’t tell by the feel of seat-of-the-pants sailing. It was some of the best sailing I have done in my life.

    Every boat is different of course and you will only find out the best windward performance for your boat, if that is your goal, with some instrumentation.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    The foils are the thing, rudder and board are almost everything. Then the sails and how they are rigged and set become equally important. There is a lot to know and "going to school" with a small boat is always a good and fun thing.
    (Waterline length or "speed" will be your limiting factor, the more speed the more efficient the hull form and foils matter. Falling off just a bit to gain some speed rather than pinching as high as the sails will set is almost always prudent. (Unless you have a tide or river current pushing on your lee bow!)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Yer average gaffer tacks thru 120 ...don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Pinching ,cracking off, an inch or a half an inch on a halyard or snotter..body weight moved a wee bit...these things take time to master.
    But take heart, after a few hundred hours of futzing , you too can get 10 degrees closer to the wind.
    Depends on what you call average..
    Round here these are the most common gaffers and they can to a lot better than that..


    WW2DSC_0150-1024x683.jpgdownload.jpg
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    Last edited by The Q; 06-28-2021 at 02:01 AM.
    Just an amateur bodging away..

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    yes, they are not average.
    They are race boats

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The foils are the thing, rudder and board are almost everything. Then the sails and how they are rigged and set become equally important. There is a lot to know and "going to school" with a small boat is always a good and fun thing.
    (Waterline length or "speed" will be your limiting factor, the more speed the more efficient the hull form and foils matter. Falling off just a bit to gain some speed rather than pinching as high as the sails will set is almost always prudent. (Unless you have a tide or river current pushing on your lee bow!)
    I agree.

    Also, sea state affects pointing ability in a small boat. You'll be able to point higher in flat water than in big waves.
    Alex

    "The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible, but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.”
    - Vincent van Gogh

    http://www.alexzimmerman.ca

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    I have turned off the "tracks" feature on the Garmin aboard Marianita as it just leads to frustration. I have a raft of upgrades slated for her next haulout, foil-shapes for bilgeboards and rudder along with more/better tension on the forestay ought to help some. 90% of my sailing is simply reaching back and forth across Elliot Bay so it hasn't mattered that much until I'm trying to do that other 10% at which point it can get quite annoying.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Tacking angles for Oughtred balanced lug Caledonial Yawl etc.

    Whoop whoop! I think I solved my pointing issues with 1 piece of scrap wood, 2 screws and a foot of rope to add one more lacing to the yard as described in the thread linked in post #2 above. That extra lacing to the top of the yard makes a huge difference in sail shape and allows the luff to be tightened hard without overtightening the head of the sail. We were able to point more or less the same as the sloop rigs in today's races.Thank you AJZimm for sharing that tip!

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